Factors for this year's team

[Cowboy]

i like the way you twist cowboy. i never said that. i said to expect him to improve on that aspect is asking a lot since he already is at a hall of fame level for three pointers made.

btw, david burns is a hall of famer. anthony bonner is a hall of famer. mckinney and gray are hall of famers.

i could go on.

do you know much about billiken history?

-you said you did not "know how much more you can ask of lisch to go up"

-poorly worded, i hope that business writing guy you triumphed does not read that

-so i interpreted your statement to mean he is already at the top of his game, he can't go higher, which means he can't improve his 3pt shooting

-why don't you want improvement from all of the players? seems like you are putting down our guys or your level of acceptance is somewhere different than mine or you have a double standard for a certain player - any and all could be true

-if in today's world your criteria for hof is being 2nd in 3pt fg made, that is fine, mine is a higher standard but i am not on the committee so it does not matter

-as to history, and most other topics, i bow to your greatness as you just seem to know it all

[billiken_roy]

-you said you did not "know how much more you can ask of lisch to go up"

-poorly worded, i hope that business writing guy you triumphed does not read that

-so i interpreted your statement to mean he is already at the top of his game, he can't go higher, which means he can't improve his 3pt shooting

-why don't you want improvement from all of the players? seems like you are putting down our guys or your level of acceptance is somewhere different than mine or you have a double standard for a certain player - any and all could be true

-if in today's world your criteria for hof is being 2nd in 3pt fg made, that is fine, mine is a higher standard but i am not on the committee so it does not matter

-as to history, and most other topics, i bow to your greatness as you just seem to know it all

you dont comprehend very well then. the only aspect we were talking about was 3 point shooting. go back and read the original post by slu72 and my reply. i have no idea how you got complete game out of that.

where did i say i dont want improvement from all of the players?

fyi, kevin lisch will also likely end up top 5 in total points, somewhere between 5th and 10th in free throws, top 10 in assists and steals, top 5 in 3 point % besides top 2 in 3 pointers made. is that high enough standards for you? again, it reflects your lack of comprehension on the point being debated. as obviously for me only to reflect on 3 pointers made surely should have signified that was the point of contention. not his total game.

i dont know it all, but i like to think i do know a little about billiken basketball.

[Cowboy]

-the focus was on 3pt shooting, you said, in essence, it would be too much to ask for him to improve his 3pt shooting - why is that the case?

-last year there were 245 players with a better 3pt %, but all is well if there is no improvement in his 3pt %?

-man crush

[billiken_roy]

-the focus was on 3pt shooting, you said, in essence, it would be too much to ask for him to improve his 3pt shooting - why is that the case?

-last year there were 245 players with a better 3pt %, but all is well if there is no improvement in his 3pt %?

-man crush

your words again, i just cautioned slu72 in expecting more 3 point production out of lisch. now you have turned it into percentage made. you are a weird dude that seems obsessed with fighting with me. must be a great past time for you.

[ACE]

Let's take a look at it position by position.

+1 = a little better, +2 = much better, +3 = significantly better

At the 1 - KM and RC. KM is a solid player who is strong on the ball and can distribute, I would expect him to be a little better at penetrating, but I'm not sure how much better he'll shoot. I gave it a plus 2 because we have a real backup without having to move Kevin off the 2. RC can really shoot, and I think it will transfer to this level, like KM he is strong and should have the ability to penetrate.

+2

At the 2 - KL He should play over 30 minutes a game at the 2 and be backed up by RC and or PE. Kevin should show improvement with a year in RM's system, the same can be said for PE.

+1

At the 3 - TL who also should be improved from a year in the system and the natural progression from a jr to a sr. I would expect him to also play over 30 minutes a game. It would be nice to see Femi show enough to take those minutes, but if not we will probably move to more of a real 3 guard offense with Kevin or Tommie always on the floor.

+1

I see absolutely no doubt our guard play should be improved, and maybe significantly improved with more depth.

At the 4 - BE who should be better with his weight loss and history shows that many times a juco player has a much better Sr year than Jr year. I'm not sure he will match Luke, especially leadership wise, but with Conklin backing him up I'd say we might be about even ...I'll go worst case and call this a

-1

At the 5 - BT or WR. I'd guess BT, the question will be do the backup minutes go to WR or BC. Right off the bat, having only seen BT once, I'd say he will not match Bryce early, but with either BC or WR as a backup we will be at least as good and maybe better overall. Last year when Bryce sat, we had a too heavy BE at the 5 and with BE playing just over half a game, that's a lot of minutes with BE at the 5.

+1

In the frontcourt we will have more depth than last year, but take a hit losing Luke. I would say overall in the front court we should be equal to last year, possibly better as the freshman get aclimated and make improvements.

Overall I don't see how we will be worse, our guard play should be significantly better and our front court about the same. Kevin, Tommie, and Barry should have some fire in them, and be ready to step up and provide solid Sr leadership. Looking at it like this, makes me feel comfortable asuuming at least 17 wins and possibly 20.

Good analysis and I think pretty realistic. The backcourt has to be a lot more dynamic with KM and Cotto. At least we will have a couple of point guards who will be able to score a little bit, unlike DP who was no threat. Not sure what to expect out of Femi, but hopefully he can be a nice back-up at the 3.

Hopefully with a bigger frontline, we'll be able to get some more offensive rebounds. With that much inexperience, it could get ugly at times. IMO, Conklin is the X factor. While he may not have the most upside of our young bigs, it sounds like he might be the most polished and most ready to contribute from day 1. If Willie is not strong enough to play, does Conklin become the back-up 5?

[slufanskip]

Good analysis and I think pretty realistic. The backcourt has to be a lot more dynamic with KM and Cotto. At least we will have a couple of point guards who will be able to score a little bit, unlike DP who was no threat. Not sure what to expect out of Femi, but hopefully he can be a nice back-up at the 3.

Hopefully with a bigger frontline, we'll be able to get some more offensive rebounds. With that much inexperience, it could get ugly at times. IMO, Conklin is the X factor. While he may not have the most upside of our young bigs, it sounds like he might be the most polished and most ready to contribute from day 1. If Willie is not strong enough to play, does Conklin become the back-up 5?

I'd say if Willie isn't able to contribute or redshirts as was suggested earlier, you either end up with BT and BE or you go with what would amount to 2 4's with BC and BE. Imo the best case scenario is BT or WR starting at the 5 and BC backing up BE at the 4.

[Westy03]

I'd say if Willie isn't able to contribute or redshirts as was suggested earlier, you either end up with BT and BE or you go with what would amount to 2 4's with BC and BE. Imo the best case scenario is BT or WR starting at the 5 and BC backing up BE at the 4.

Willie Reed is not ready to contribute much less start this year. If I were Majerus I would redshirt him but we are in a bind in the frontcourt. Brett Thompson will start out of necessity but he will struggle, especially at the beginning of the year. Tommie and Kevin will need all conference type performances this year if we expect to make any noise.

[Cowboy]

your words again, i just cautioned slu72 in expecting more 3 point production out of lisch. now you have turned it into percentage made. you are a weird dude that seems obsessed with fighting with me. must be a great past time for you.

i guess if you can't follow what you said it is not for me to try to figure out either

[billiken_roy]

i guess if you can't follow what you said it is not for me to try to figure out either

slu 72 said, "KL has to be more of a threat from three point range. Other than him, I don't know who else will do it."

i replied with, " slu72, i like your thoughts, but i would like to point out that kevin lisch currently is already fourth on the all time 3 pointer list. barring something unforseen or tragic, he will end up second all time in made threes.

i.e. i dont know how much more you can ask of lisch to go up."

so not sure where the percentage made comes into play in my reply. show me where in my three sentence reply i made a reference about percentage of three's made? i was all about number of threes made which to me would answer slu72's point about being more of threat.

now if you perceive percentage made with who was the biggest three point threat last year, kevin would have finished third on the team behind danny brown and bryce husak last year. i dont think any one else thought of either danny or bryce as our biggest three point threat last year though.

[jjray]

What makes you think Conklin is ready?

* * *

If Barry has lost 15 lbs, I have no doubt he can be a decent 4, not a star, but good. Conklin should be backing him up and maybe backing up Brett at the 5. If Brett can play 25 minutes a game * * *

I don't think Brett should be playing 25 mpg yet. Do you? Not physically ready. But we have no backup center on this team. My guess is that we end up playing many minutes with two 4s on the court--Barry and Conklin. My info on Conklin comes 2nd hand from someone whose opinion I trust that scrimmaged with the team. We'll be hugely undersized when these two are in together. If we can get rebounding and defense out of our bigs as Roy suggested, then we have a chance to compete. Our guards should be outstanding with the addition of K. Mitchell and Cotto (assuming Cotto is qualified).

[slufanskip]

I don't think Brett should be playing 25 mpg yet. Do you? Not physically ready. But we have no backup center on this team. My guess is that we end up playing many minutes with two 4s on the court--Barry and Conklin. My info on Conklin comes 2nd hand from someone whose opinion I trust that scrimmaged with the team. We'll be hugely undersized when these two are in together. If we can get rebounding and defense out of our bigs as Roy suggested, then we have a chance to compete. Our guards should be outstanding with the addition of K. Mitchell and Cotto (assuming Cotto is qualified).

I don't know anything about Conklin, if you have info from someone you trust, you may be right. But if you figure Conklin and Barry get 30 each, BT should get 20. Either way at least we have players fighting for minutes, not BE and LM playing minutes at the 5

[Guest BillikenReport]

The key is obviously how much the freshmen can contribute and how soon.

There are only four players returning, so you need a couple freshmen to step up. They all have different skills they bring to the table, but its safe to say the key guys are Kwamain Mitchell, Ruben Cotto, Brett Thompson and Brian Conklin. Mitchell and Cotto both have experience that, I think, can ease their transition to D-1 hoops at the point guard spot. Mitchell seems like a good fit for this team as an unselfish pass-first PG who can push the ball and attack in transition (rather than pulling it out to re-set the offense.) Cotto should be one of the better shooters on the team, but he'll have to do the other things (defense, ballhandling) to get more minutes to be able to take shots. Thompson has obviously much-needed size and the skills to fit well in the Majerus system, but he's going to have to be ready to contribute right away. Nobody knows much about Conklin except that he was a highly successful high school player, but his size alone (taller than Barry, heavier than Willie Reed) makes him a logical choice to get minutes. Barry Eberhardt and Conklin are going to have to split up minutes at the power forward spot or as part of a post rotation that includes Thompson and maybe Reed.

Reed was a project when they signed him and he still is. I think he can contribute some, but he still needs to get stronger to make more of an impact. He has a chance to be one of the more dynamic big men in the A-10, but he's got work to do first. I believe Femi John is physically ready to contribute, but he's blocked at the shooting guard spot behind Kevin Lisch and Paul Eckerle (unless Eckerle plays PG, with Cotto playing SG). John does some things well, but just doesn't shoot it from the perimeter as well as some of the other options (like Cotto). Kyle Cassity is in the same boat as John in terms of being blocked, either at shooting guard or small forward. Like Reed, he needs to get stronger, but his solid all-around game could earn him minutes and make him a valuable asset.

The other key to this season will be the play of Lisch and Tommie Liddell. They are going to have a lot on their shoulders, but as seniors (and Tommie essentially a fifth-year senior) they should be able to step up and lead this team. Those two should be able to carry the youngsters to victory in some of those cupcake games and should be good enough to keep the Billikens in most of the tougher games on the schedule.

This team will only go as far as Lisch and Liddell take them.

[jjray]

The key is obviously how much the freshmen can contribute and how soon.

There are only four players returning, so you need a couple freshmen to step up. They all have different skills they bring to the table, but its safe to say the key guys are Kwamain Mitchell, Ruben Cotto, Brett Thompson and Brian Conklin. Mitchell and Cotto both have experience that, I think, can ease their transition to D-1 hoops at the point guard spot. Mitchell seems like a good fit for this team as an unselfish pass-first PG who can push the ball and attack in transition (rather than pulling it out to re-set the offense.) Cotto should be one of the better shooters on the team, but he'll have to do the other things (defense, ballhandling) to get more minutes to be able to take shots. Thompson has obviously much-needed size and the skills to fit well in the Majerus system, but he's going to have to be ready to contribute right away. Nobody knows much about Conklin except that he was a highly successful high school player, but his size alone (taller than Barry, heavier than Willie Reed) makes him a logical choice to get minutes. Barry Eberhardt and Conklin are going to have to split up minutes at the power forward spot or as part of a post rotation that includes Thompson and maybe Reed.

Reed was a project when they signed him and he still is. I think he can contribute some, but he still needs to get stronger to make more of an impact. He has a chance to be one of the more dynamic big men in the A-10, but he's got work to do first. I believe Femi John is physically ready to contribute, but he's blocked at the shooting guard spot behind Kevin Lisch and Paul Eckerle (unless Eckerle plays PG, with Cotto playing SG). John does some things well, but just doesn't shoot it from the perimeter as well as some of the other options (like Cotto). Kyle Cassity is in the same boat as John in terms of being blocked, either at shooting guard or small forward. Like Reed, he needs to get stronger, but his solid all-around game could earn him minutes and make him a valuable asset.

The other key to this season will be the play of Lisch and Tommie Liddell. They are going to have a lot on their shoulders, but as seniors (and Tommie essentially a fifth-year senior) they should be able to step up and lead this team. Those two should be able to carry the youngsters to victory in some of those cupcake games and should be good enough to keep the Billikens in most of the tougher games on the schedule.

This team will only go as far as Lisch and Liddell take them.

Sounds like a good recap of the situation to me with one quibble on Femi John. He's physically mature (Cassity is not) and could help us off the bench at the 3. Given our problems up front, I would think Femi gets minutes in the rotation at 3 to help rebound and defend. I hate to say it but you might also see Femi play the Danny Brown role this season in an occasional 4 guard set. We're ridiculously thin up front.

[kevinfootes]

i like the way you twist cowboy. i never said that. i said to expect him to improve on that aspect is asking a lot since he already is at a hall of fame level for three pointers made.

btw, david burns is a hall of famer. anthony bonner is a hall of famer. mckinney and gray are hall of famers.

i could go on.

do you know much about billiken history?

Who is "mckinney"? Am I forgetting about some hall of famer?

[mtripp]

slu 72 said, "KL has to be more of a threat from three point range. Other than him, I don't know who else will do it."

i replied with, " slu72, i like your thoughts, but i would like to point out that kevin lisch currently is already fourth on the all time 3 pointer list. barring something unforseen or tragic, he will end up second all time in made threes.

i.e. i dont know how much more you can ask of lisch to go up."

so not sure where the percentage made comes into play in my reply. show me where in my three sentence reply i made a reference about percentage of three's made? i was all about number of threes made which to me would answer slu72's point about being more of threat.

now if you perceive percentage made with who was the biggest three point threat last year, kevin would have finished third on the team behind danny brown and bryce husak last year. i dont think any one else thought of either danny or bryce as our biggest three point threat last year though.

If your expecting BT to play more than 10 mpg and think that slu is going to win more than 10 games your delusional.

[mtripp]

The key is obviously how much the freshmen can contribute and how soon.

There are only four players returning, so you need a couple freshmen to step up. They all have different skills they bring to the table, but its safe to say the key guys are Kwamain Mitchell, Ruben Cotto, Brett Thompson and Brian Conklin. Mitchell and Cotto both have experience that, I think, can ease their transition to D-1 hoops at the point guard spot. Mitchell seems like a good fit for this team as an unselfish pass-first PG who can push the ball and attack in transition (rather than pulling it out to re-set the offense.) Cotto should be one of the better shooters on the team, but he'll have to do the other things (defense, ballhandling) to get more minutes to be able to take shots. Thompson has obviously much-needed size and the skills to fit well in the Majerus system, but he's going to have to be ready to contribute right away. Nobody knows much about Conklin except that he was a highly successful high school player, but his size alone (taller than Barry, heavier than Willie Reed) makes him a logical choice to get minutes. Barry Eberhardt and Conklin are going to have to split up minutes at the power forward spot or as part of a post rotation that includes Thompson and maybe Reed.

Reed was a project when they signed him and he still is. I think he can contribute some, but he still needs to get stronger to make more of an impact. He has a chance to be one of the more dynamic big men in the A-10, but he's got work to do first. I believe Femi John is physically ready to contribute, but he's blocked at the shooting guard spot behind Kevin Lisch and Paul Eckerle (unless Eckerle plays PG, with Cotto playing SG). John does some things well, but just doesn't shoot it from the perimeter as well as some of the other options (like Cotto). Kyle Cassity is in the same boat as John in terms of being blocked, either at shooting guard or small forward. Like Reed, he needs to get stronger, but his solid all-around game could earn him minutes and make him a valuable asset.

The other key to this season will be the play of Lisch and Tommie Liddell. They are going to have a lot on their shoulders, but as seniors (and Tommie essentially a fifth-year senior) they should be able to step up and lead this team. Those two should be able to carry the youngsters to victory in some of those cupcake games and should be good enough to keep the Billikens in most of the tougher games on the schedule.

This team will only go as far as Lisch and Liddell take them.

Femi John rebound and defend those are the two things he can't do. Of your freshman I think at the end of the year he will make the best transition. I have seen him play 25 or 30 times he will be a great get in the end and BT will be the biggest best in the history of SLU basketball.

[slu72]

The key is obviously how much the freshmen can contribute and how soon.

There are only four players returning, so you need a couple freshmen to step up. They all have different skills they bring to the table, but its safe to say the key guys are Kwamain Mitchell, Ruben Cotto, Brett Thompson and Brian Conklin. Mitchell and Cotto both have experience that, I think, can ease their transition to D-1 hoops at the point guard spot. Mitchell seems like a good fit for this team as an unselfish pass-first PG who can push the ball and attack in transition (rather than pulling it out to re-set the offense.) Cotto should be one of the better shooters on the team, but he'll have to do the other things (defense, ballhandling) to get more minutes to be able to take shots. Thompson has obviously much-needed size and the skills to fit well in the Majerus system, but he's going to have to be ready to contribute right away. Nobody knows much about Conklin except that he was a highly successful high school player, but his size alone (taller than Barry, heavier than Willie Reed) makes him a logical choice to get minutes. Barry Eberhardt and Conklin are going to have to split up minutes at the power forward spot or as part of a post rotation that includes Thompson and maybe Reed.

Reed was a project when they signed him and he still is. I think he can contribute some, but he still needs to get stronger to make more of an impact. He has a chance to be one of the more dynamic big men in the A-10, but he's got work to do first. I believe Femi John is physically ready to contribute, but he's blocked at the shooting guard spot behind Kevin Lisch and Paul Eckerle (unless Eckerle plays PG, with Cotto playing SG). John does some things well, but just doesn't shoot it from the perimeter as well as some of the other options (like Cotto). Kyle Cassity is in the same boat as John in terms of being blocked, either at shooting guard or small forward. Like Reed, he needs to get stronger, but his solid all-around game could earn him minutes and make him a valuable asset.

The other key to this season will be the play of Lisch and Tommie Liddell. They are going to have a lot on their shoulders, but as seniors (and Tommie essentially a fifth-year senior) they should be able to step up and lead this team. Those two should be able to carry the youngsters to victory in some of those cupcake games and should be good enough to keep the Billikens in most of the tougher games on the schedule.

This team will only go as far as Lisch and Liddell take them.

Since it's Nate's job to judge these guys, this is probably the best analysis we're going to get on our Frosh. Reading between the lines on Nate's post, he seems to be guarding against too much optimism when it comes to the Frosh. Only KM appears to be really ready for the rigors of D1 hoops. And given he'll play the point, that's not going to be an easy transition. So again it falls to TL and KL to place this team on their shoulders. We'll only go as far as they can take us.

[Quality Is Job 1]

If you're expecting BT to play more than 10 mpg and think that slu is going to win more than 10 games your delusional.

Perhaps some of us are delusional, including Coach Majerus and Brett Thompson, but Thompson will certainly play more than 10 mpg AND the Bills will win more than 10 games. Heck, they won 16 games last year behind Liddell and Lisch, not having familiarity with the system and Bryce Husak at center, so why couldn't two star senior guards with the system under their belt win the same number of games, if not more, against a weaker schedule?

[brianstl]

Femi John rebound and defend those are the two things he can't do. Of your freshman I think at the end of the year he will make the best transition. I have seen him play 25 or 30 times he will be a great get in the end and BT will be the biggest best in the history of SLU basketball.

You are an SIU fan and have trashed Femi and Brett reapeatedly on Salukitalk.

[Guest BillikenReport]

Reading between the lines on Nate's post, he seems to be guarding against too much optimism when it comes to the Frosh.

I like this recruiting class. I think each of the incoming freshmen has a unique skill set that will help the team down the line.

I'm just not sure how quickly the team will come together because it will be so young. You're going to have four guys at practice who know what Majerus wants and expects and you're going to have the rest of the guys trying to figure it out on the fly.

One of the biggest problems facing this freshmen class is that several of these guys have to contribute right away. SLU has four returners, so if the Billikens go with an eight-man rotation you need to have four freshmen step up and play well enough to contribute.

I do think the schedule is tailored to help the youngsters and give them enough practice time to figure things out. It should be an interesting season, but there will be highs and lows just like last year — and probably even more so than last season.

[jjray]

Femi John rebound and defend those are the two things he can't do. Of your freshman I think at the end of the year he will make the best transition. I have seen him play 25 or 30 times he will be a great get in the end and BT will be the biggest best in the history of SLU basketball.

Mods, just ban this guy. He's a flamer pure and simple. I'm fine with rational banter back and forth on our board between those from other programs but this guys just spews garbage. We don't need it.

[GOSLU68]

Mods, just ban this guy. He's a flamer pure and simple. I'm fine with rational banter back and forth on our board between those from other programs but this guys just spews garbage. We don't need it.

last year we had 4 guys who did not contribute and were asked to leave-none of the four could finish or rebound. The new local recruits are much more feisty and will at least try to penetrate, score, and rebound. Our weakest recruits may be the locals but they at least want the ball and have a

clue that getting it above the rim and in the vicinity of the rim is 90% of the objective; the little I have seen of KC, FJ, and RC they will all fight for minutes and the more established, highly regarded recruits we have to trust coach that he is bringing in kids that not only can give us minutes but will

take major minutes away from 2 of our 4 returnees. I would not be surprised if TL or KL get the flu or an ankle turn we will have kids wanting those

minutes. When we had good freshmen in the past they did make immediate impact. BT, BC, KM, RC are not going to be sitting this season out.

[TreyT3]

If your expecting BT to play more than 10 mpg and think that slu is going to win more than 10 games your delusional.

Seriously...comments like that just make you look real dumb.

[slufanskip]

Seriously...comments like that just make you look real dumb.

It's the mirror that makes him look dumb