Quality of this team and this HC

[cheeseman]

While nobody likes a 40 point loss, why are we so surprised? RM told us very frankly on more than one occasion that he was worried about the team's performance this year. Some you refused to hear the words - talk about drinking the koolaid and the coach wasn't even serving it some just mixed up their own batch. After listening to RM talk about this team, it was very clear to me that he had little hope that these players could perform at the level he demands. Maybe the players are gassed, maybe they are simply tired of trying to adapt to a new system, and maybe they realize that they just did not sign on for what they find themselves in. It really doesn't matter, what does matter is that this is the team for this year and we simply have to live with who we got. As I have said many times, this team will struggle to be 500 unless something happens that has not happened yet. Also, Kent State is a good team - they have the longest non-conf. winning record in the nation other than Duke.

[TheChosenOne]

But we watched these same kids have some succes last season, so losing to Kent State by 40 should in no way be expected. We lost by 40 to a mid major, not an elite program stock piles with McDonalds All-Americans and that is what is frustrating. That is an embarrassing loss however you want to slice it.

[MusicCityBilliken]

Wow, reading these posts one would turn one's Billiken Club membership.

A little history lesson>

BS first year>> (02-03) we lost to TN-Martin at HOME. TN-Martin BTW was a bottom dweller in the OVC that year. That SLU team went to the 2nd round of the NIT.

Romer first year>>(99-00) we lost to Louisana Tech at HOME. That was the 'miracle in Memphis' team.

Teams with new coaches usually have bumps early.

The only thing I am afraid of is if the players gives up on RM, then we will many more of these types of games.

[provos528]

RM 's first year with Marquette

17-13

Ball State 14-14

Utah 4-2 then operation..

[Westy03]

His second year at Utah he was 30-4 and his second year at Ball State he was 29-3

[NashvilleBilliken]

Like a loud girl fart.

HA! That's freakin rich.

[Majerus Magic]

Majerus clearly needs more time. Time heals all wounds, right?

[BillsWin]

This is still Brad Soderberg's team. The timing of the firing and hiring came during the spring signing period and SLU hired an ESPN commentator who didn't have any time to recruit more talent than was already coming here. The only player Majerus recruited for this year was Paul Eckerle, who wasn't going to play here otherwise. (This team would be even worse off without Eckerle.)

I got blasted here for talking about Soderberg's recruiting mistakes ... and now those same mistakes are the reason people are frustrated with the new coach losing at Missouri State and Kent State.

This team doesn't have enough talent. That was going to be the case with Soderberg this season, too. If Soderberg had recruited better — and we're talking about evaluating players correctly, pursuing players you can get and then actually getting them — he'd still be the coach.

I know some people understand this, because it's been posted on here before. But a lot of people don't seem to get it.

Next year's team will struggle as well, with at least five freshmen and possibly two or three more new faces. But that team should have a strong core of seniors (Tommie Liddell, Kevin Lisch and Barry Eberhardt) and will have a lot more depth than this year's group.

This team has a strong core of juniors and seniors 'this year' who were fundamental to last year's 20 win season. I expected more of this team and of this coach.

I also hate the idea that RM may be driving some players off the team. They committed to SLU and they should deserve the commitment of the school and like it or not that means RM.

[provos528]

This team has a strong core of juniors and seniors 'this year' who were fundamental to last year's 20 win season. I expected more of this team and of this coach.

I also hate the idea that RM may be driving some players off the team. They committed to SLU and they should deserve the commitment of the school and like it or not that means RM.

It should be the other way around, the players for the team.. That's how the real world works.. If any player plans to move to the NBA this is a big fundamental of trying to adapt to anybody who is coaching you..

Unless you are Jordanesque, some things could be compromised..

[Sheltiedave]

Staying off this board as much as possible.

For those who maintain RM is a coaching genius and buy everything he postulates, just remember Bobby Knight went 23-10 and made the NCAA in his first year at Texas Tech(who!?/where.) There is a big difference between a coaching genius and a coaching genius who coaches to win.

[kmbilliken]

RM said at the beginning of the year his major emphasis was installing his prgram and winning philosophies to build for the future. If he needed to win immediately he would coach differently, but he wasn't going to do that. This is the rough road he warned about. The season is still young, as bad as it seems we need to let it play out. Liddell and Lisch will come around, Luke will be steady. I think Eberhart, Polk and Eckerle will be decent role players. Who knows what the rest will contribute, but with the above we ought to have a .500 season. With a little luck, maybe a shot at the NIT.

One thing we have now that we haven't had since Lisch and Liddell signed is quality players on the way and hope for the future.

[slu72]

Staying off this board as much as possible.

For those who maintain RM is a coaching genius and buy everything he postulates, just remember Bobby Knight went 23-10 and made the NCAA in his first year at Texas Tech(who!?/where.) There is a big difference between a coaching genius and a coaching genius who coaches to win.

If I recall, Booby was able to land about 3 JUCO's who helped that team alot. If Booby had to coach the talent we have right now, St. Louis police would be investigating a murder or two.

[MusicCityBilliken]

If I recall, Booby was able to land about 3 JUCO's who helped that team alot. If Booby had to coach the talent we have right now, St. Louis police would be investigating a murder or two.

Bobby would be a great neighbor.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/sports/20...ht.exchange.cnn

[kevinfootes]

Excellent post Nate. I was optimistic about Soderberg when he signed KL and TL in the fall of `04. But that spring signing period, I started to get concerned that he failed to land a good big. All he got was an injured Obi and another open scholarship. Then next year's recruiting, I started getting even more critical when he did a terrible job on recruiting - failing to land just one player who is contributing now. And the final straw for me was last fall, when Soderberg failed to sign ANYBODY. All he was able to do was snag Relphorde and Mitchell in the spring. Sodie deserved to go. He squandered an opportunity to build on KL and TL. A handful of Sodie's apologists would always defend his crappy recruiting when I would criticize it. Well, we are seeing the results of that recruiting now - no point guard, no center, no bench.

I have no doubts that RM will get things going at SLU before too long. However, I do seem to remember several posters on here (maybe even me) making comments like "RM would have coached this same lineup to 3-4 more wins last year". I get that it's very early, but last night makes me wonder about that statement. I'll give it to you that Brad flopped as a recruiter after landing KL & TL. I also realize that losing Ian is bigger than a lot of people realize. That said, getting doubled up by a mid-major is a lousy outcome no matter how you look at it. It's only one game, but it's also one of the worst losses I can remember in the past 25 years. I think we'll learn a lot about this team on Saturday. I'm willing to give RM a pass this year for the most part, but I'd still like to see them be better than .500 at the end of the year. I don't think that's asking too much from a coach of RM's stature.

[Cowboy]

-wow - it is not even December and people have seemed to forget how we got to this point

-if i may - and players and their families - you may choose not to read this, in fact i advise it

-and none of this is new

-UB had one of the greatest signing periods or years in SLU history by inking TLIII and KL

-fantastic that was - remember??? remember the dreams??

-then what? i think Rodney would call it a popcorn fart (kind of a theme today I guess)

-you have 2 stud guards and over the next- what 5 or 6 or whatever the number is - recruiting periods you get nothing to go with them?

-if i am family like tdell or roy i question how i put my trust in UB in the first place as he brought nothing else to the table for them to play with, nothing - look at the roster and disagree with me -if UB could recruit he would still be our coach

-please don't misinterpret this to mean UB is not a good person, if you had a daughter you would probably kill to have someone of his character come to your door, but that is not what this is about

-so FrB decides to build a new building and needs to raise some funds and put some butts in the seats and probably try to have somthing to brag about at jesuit functions and is willing to buck up

-we are all but at the spring signing period and do we have one verbal? i think so - thompson - maybe i am wrong, but every indication is the class is not going to build excitement and continues the trend of not filling the roster

-so FrB cans UB and 30 days later hires a proven winner of the highest level, or perhaps next level since he did not win a championship game - but a level much higher than we have had, ever?

-as ron caron might say -there is not much meat on the burner

-if you haven't figured it out, RM tells us what he feels

-he told us this year would be rough

-he told us if he had to win this year he would do things differently than he is

-he told us he is trying to change our entire culture

-so given his attitude/comments he and FrB are in for the long haul, not this year

-so he goes out in limited recruiting time and signs 4 players to add to Thompson to make a starting lineup in 2 years

-who was the last pg UB signed?

-this recruiting class seems to have great potential, somehting we cannot say since TLIII and KL, and that is how we got here

-and we are giving up in november?? after 8 games??

-you know what, someone once said.....

[kevinfootes]

-wow - it is not even December and people have seemed to forget how we got to this point

-if i may - and players and their families - you may choose not to read this, in fact i advise it

-and none of this is new

-UB had one of the greatest signing periods or years in SLU history by inking TLIII and KL

-fantastic that was - remember??? remember the dreams??

-then what? i think Rodney would call it a popcorn fart (kind of a theme today I guess)

-you have 2 stud guards and over the next- what 5 or 6 or whatever the number is - recruiting periods you get nothing to go with them?

-if i am family like tdell or roy i question how i put my trust in UB in the first place as he brought nothing else to the table for them to play with, nothing - look at the roster and disagree with me -if UB could recruit he would still be our coach

-please don't misinterpret this to mean UB is not a good person, if you had a daughter you would probably kill to have someone of his character come to your door, but that is not what this is about

-so FrB decides to build a new building and needs to raise some funds and put some butts in the seats and probably try to have somthing to brag about at jesuit functions and is willing to buck up

-we are all but at the spring signing period and do we have one verbal? i think so - thompson - maybe i am wrong, but every indication is the class is not going to build excitement and continues the trend of not filling the roster

-so FrB cans UB and 30 days later hires a proven winner of the highest level, or perhaps next level since he did not win a championship game - but a level much higher than we have had, ever?

-as ron caron might say -there is not much meat on the burner

-if you haven't figured it out, RM tells us what he feels

-he told us this year would be rough

-he told us if he had to win this year he would do things differently than he is

-he told us he is trying to change our entire culture

-so given his attitude/comments he and FrB are in for the long haul, not this year

-so he goes out in limited recruiting time and signs 4 players to add to Thompson to make a starting lineup in 2 years

-who was the last pg UB signed?

-this recruiting class seems to have great potential, somehting we cannot say since TLIII and KL, and that is how we got here

-and we are giving up in november?? after 8 games??

-you know what, someone once said.....

Who is giving up? Please be specific.

[Cowboy]

specific enough? and i fully realize interpretations of these words by other posters can be different than mine, and "giving up" may have been a bit over dramatic, but my point tried to be - look at how we got to where we are and try to see what RM can possibly bring in the future, not this year or next

Another possibility is that they, like me, thought that RM is the second coming. The only difference is I have fallen off that bandwagon.

At this, admittedly, very early point in the RM era, I'm not so sure that the messiah is currently working our sidelines.

This team looks worse than ANY BS-coached team

I am concerned with the constant stream of negative comments coming from RM about our players

Although I understand that an oversized ego comes with the territory when looking at winning coaches, it somehow bothers me that RM (a member of the media for the past 3 years) seems to feel that he is above dealing with the media (and us fans as well). I can assure you that as of today, he has no intention of ever returning to a Billiken Club meeting-it's beneath him. So also, is doing us the favor of discussing the game-good or bad-on the post-game show with Rammer and Earl.;

Maybe I'm being too impatient at this point, but I clearly expected to see some improvements by now, not just next year

I never expected RM to produce results such as we are seeing now-I know all the light at the end of the tunnel analogies so spare me those

I just believed that a HC of the quality I thought RM was, would not turn a decent group of players who won 20 games last year, into a less than average squad

At this point I am falling back on my Missouri roots and saying to RM, SHOW ME (cause I ain't seein it yet).

boy you sure bring up all the wtf ?'s i too have been thinking.

one would think a coach of his stature would be able to do more with less than a big ten asst coach did on short notice with the same team

this is not the way to usher in the era

this is not the way to win casual fans to the program immediately.

i think a lot may end up asking "how did soderberg win with those players?"

No team with TL and KL on it should EVER lose by 40+, 3rd offensive threat or not. If this had happened in the 8th game of Brad's tenure when our only double digit scorer was Marque Perry, we'd be demanding his resignation

My frustration mainly stems from what I saw in the one game I went to. I saw nothing different

on the court this season I have seen nothing.

At least we have the guy who invented the game of basketball as our coach. I almost wish we still had Sodie. At least I did not have to hear him on the radio or tv or read his quotes throwing guys under the bus while stroking his ego. Majerus is ruthless when talking about his players who happen to be college students and I think that is pathetic.

For those who maintain RM is a coaching genius and buy everything he postulates, just remember Bobby Knight went 23-10 and made the NCAA in his first year at Texas Tech(who!?/where.) There is a big difference between a coaching genius and a coaching genius who coaches to win.