Lurking Dog Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 re; Patriot League athletic aid I think the NCAA insists that the school (athletic dept) does the financial transaction. Institutional control and all that... Georgetown moved from true nonscholarship football to the Patriot several years ago, with promises of scholarship equivalencies, improved facilities, and Ivy league opponents on the schedule. They ran out of money for most of it. And they probably could've picked up a few Ivy League games without joining the Patriot League. So the Hoyas have maybe 15 equivalencies, league constraints on recruiting (academic index) and a losing reputation. Dayton will out recruit them every time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bay Area Billiken Posted November 5, 2007 Author Share Posted November 5, 2007 I've also heard from an old hometown (Quincy, IL) source, that smaller schools, Quincy and Culver-Stockton, across the River in Canton, MO, are actually using football as a recruiting carrot to attract students, who play on the football team. Now SLU has no problem attracting students, but Quincy is an example of football not being seen as a cash drainer. There are creative ways to make SLU Football work. I am intrigued by this Patriot League buy out the student loans concept. If SLU were to have a football team, we would want it to be a good one. And that means providing some type of financial aid to the core players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurking Dog Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 If you plan to follow the Patriot League model, good luck. You could end up like Georgetown...or worse yet, like St. Mary's. As a Bay Area resident, you probably remember SMC was a 16 equivalency squad that joined a fully funded conference one week, then dropped football the next. The athletic aid put them in a big hole. Speaking of good teams, Dayton is ranked #25 in this week's coaches poll. PFL board: http://pflfan.proboards26.com/index.cgi my fansite: http://www.geocities.com/lurkingd/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 I've also heard from an old hometown (Quincy, IL) source, that smaller schools, Quincy and Culver-Stockton, across the River in Canton, MO, are actually using football as a recruiting carrot to attract students, who play on the football team. Now SLU has no problem attracting students, but Quincy is an example of football not being seen as a cash drainer. There are creative ways to make SLU Football work. I am intrigued by this Patriot League buy out the student loans concept. If SLU were to have a football team, we would want it to be a good one. And that means providing some type of financial aid to the core players. Culver-Stockton actually offered me a football scholarship when I was in high school. And I was no Brian Urlacher, by any means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bay Area Billiken Posted November 5, 2007 Author Share Posted November 5, 2007 St. Mary's tried to survive after its arch-rival, Santa Clara, dropped football. I think the real problem for St. Mary's was that so many California schools and Western schools dropped football, one right after another. That led to travel cost problems. In addition to neighboring Santa Clara, a Jesuit school, Cal State schools like Long Beach State and Cal State Fullerton dropped football. Long Beach State turned out some fine players like the Big Red's Terry Metcalf. And Pacific in Stockton also dropped football, despite having a 30,000 seat football stadium. It is truly a shame. St. Mary's is a LaSallian Christian Brothers school. One of the top high school football teams in the country is DeLaSalle in Concord, a Christian Brothers school, which is in the same county (Contra Costa) as St. Mary's. There are a number of good football players that have come from DeLaSalle that are now at local junior colleges because there is a dearth of the just below D-1 programs in California. I am truly amazed that no DeLaSalle Spartan is on the Cal Bears roster. That is just ridiculous. The dropping of football at SMC and Santa Clara is a sore spot, especially with Santa Clara alumni. I have heard that at virtually every Santa Clara Board meeting, someone brings up bringing back football. As it stands, San Diego (USD) still has a football team, but has to travel far and wide to play games. Stqnford's new coach, Jim Harbaugh, came from USD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bay Area Billiken Posted November 5, 2007 Author Share Posted November 5, 2007 Thus, you could have been a Culver-Stockton Wildcat, possibly playing the Quincy University Hawks for the Old Mississippi Bucket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurking Dog Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 On the subject of Santa Clara football-- You may or may not have seen this site: http://www.letthemplay.com/ I suspect there was some collaboration with the creator of the Georgetown fan site. Same style, don't you think? http://www.hoyasaxa.com/sports/football.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majerus Magic Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 I'd also like to see SLU add men's and womens' lacrosse, but that's another story. I'm not sure what the Ivy League schools do about scholarships, but I've heard the same thing about the Patriot League. I'm curious as to how Fordham, Georgetown, Villanova, etc. handle scholarships as well. I think the first step is to start a club team - which FutureBilliken tells us is in the works - play schools like Xavier and Marquette, and try to work our way up to a non-scholarship program. There has not been much talk lately, but it looks like it is becoming more attainable for a club team. I know that SGA has looked/ is looking at a proposal for the formation of a club sport. I don't know the logistics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwyjibo Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 Apparently a bar in Glendale, Arizona has an old SLU football helmet. I really think it is a cool helmet (this might have been from club football days as it seems like a 60's helmet). Story on this blog: http://kenn.com/blog/?p=120 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 ^ Now that REALLY makes me want football...and the return of the old Billiken logo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurking Dog Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 Very cool SLU helmet. Thanks for posting the picture. Since the Billikens dropped football in 1950, this is a 1960s club helmet, isn't it? For any of you who visit Kansas City, I recommend Chappell's Bar and Grill for a good display of football helmets and sports memorabilia. It has more Kansas City Athletics stuff than I've ever seen in one place. http://www.chappellsrestaurant.com/chappells/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicCityBilliken Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 Very cool SLU helmet. Thanks for posting the picture. Since the Billikens dropped football in 1950, this is a 1960s club helmet, isn't it? For any of you who visit Kansas City, I recommend Chappell's Bar and Grill for a good display of football helmets and sports memorabilia. It has more Kansas City Athletics stuff than I've ever seen in one place. http://www.chappellsrestaurant.com/chappells/ Hey Dog> How are the steaks? Not a bad price for a 12oz KC Strip. ($21.99) Tarheel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 Apparently a bar in Glendale, Arizona has an old SLU football helmet. I really think it is a cool helmet (this might have been from club football days as it seems like a 60's helmet). Story on this blog: http://kenn.com/blog/?p=120 i know this will not win a game or anything important like that, but that is one fine looking logo on that helmet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetorch Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 That helmet is really neat. I'd love to get my hands on one of those. I like football as much as the next guy but it offers too many obstacles for SLU to start another program. I would rather solidify the soccer program, becoming a national contender like we were in the past rather than seeing some unaffiliated football team. If we are going to bring back a sport let it be hockey. Football would be just a diversion at SLU, nothing more. A hockey program at SLU could be something big. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFW HOYA Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 So the Hoyas have maybe 15 equivalencies, league constraints on recruiting (academic index) and a losing reputation. Dayton will out recruit them every time. Georgetown has more grants than this and does not lose recruits to Dayton. Georgetown does not recruit in Ohio and the Midwest on a regular basis. To correct a post above, the program did not run out of money, Georgetown suspended a $32 million stadium project during a severe credit crunch affecting the school as a whole. As the endowment is now up 24% in 2007, many of these credit concerns appears to have corrected itself. SLU has a great opportunity to pursue club football. It should avoid comparisons to the Ivy and Patriot right now and make a call to the folks at Xavier and Marquette. The Billikens could have a club program next year if the momentum can start this spring and then consider a move up the I-AA/FCS ladder. --------------------------------------- http://www.hoyasaxa.com/sports/football.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 SLU has a great opportunity to pursue club football. It should avoid comparisons to the Ivy and Patriot right now and make a call to the folks at Xavier and Marquette. The Billikens could have a club program next year if the momentum can start this spring and then consider a move up the I-AA/FCS ladder. I agree. Start small, build momentum. Right now, having a club team would present some decent rivalries with Xavier, Marquette and SIUE. Perhaps if we start up a club team, maybe others in the region - Rockhurst, Creighton, Bradley, Loyola, Detroit, etc. might be compelled to field teams of their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majerus Magic Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 I agree. Start small, build momentum. Right now, having a club team would present some decent rivalries with Xavier, Marquette and SIUE. Perhaps if we start up a club team, maybe others in the region - Rockhurst, Creighton, Bradley, Loyola, Detroit, etc. might be compelled to field teams of their own. They now have a moderator for the club team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 They now have a moderator for the club team. That's good to hear - if you hear any more news please let us know. I wouldn't think they'd have much of a problem finding players - there were plenty of guys at SLU when I was there who would have loved to have continued their football careers, even if it was just for a club team. Personally, I would have loved to ride the bench and be a practice tackling dummy for SLU, just like I was in high school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bay Area Billiken Posted November 7, 2007 Author Share Posted November 7, 2007 Club football might be a place to start, not end, but why shy away from the Patriot League model? Note, I say the Patriot League, not the Ivy League model. SLU is not Yale or Harvard. But SLU is a Jesuit school like Fordham, except with a much bigger endowment, nearly double. As for hockey, that would be great too, although I would favor college football over college hockey. I would like hockey too. SLU's last varsity hockey season was played in my Freshman year at SLU. SLU had some very good hockey players. Chris Valentine was a fellow freshman at SLU who went on to play in the NHL. But I think college football would really round out the college experience at SLU. I missed having it when I was at SLU. That's the one thing I really missed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 Club football might be a place to start, not end, but why shy away from the Patriot League model? Note, I say the Patriot League, not the Ivy League model. SLU is not Yale or Harvard. But SLU is a Jesuit school like Fordham, except with a much bigger endowment, nearly double. As for hockey, that would be great too, although I would favor college football over college hockey. I would like hockey too. SLU's last varsity hockey season was played in my Freshman year at SLU. SLU had some very good hockey players. Chris Valentine was a fellow freshman at SLU who went on to play in the NHL. But I think college football would really round out the college experience at SLU. I missed having it when I was at SLU. That's the one thing I really missed. no one is stopping the kids on campus from organizing these clubs. go raise the money or charge the necessary participant fee and have a great time. my son was part of a group that did this 3 years ago forming a slu club baseball team. they have been very successful in coming together and have had a ball playing other midwest school club teams. but it would have never happened had they waited for slu to do it for them. if the kids want to play club hockey or football maybe they need to take at least the intial steps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 But I think college football would really round out the college experience at SLU. I missed having it when I was at SLU. That's the one thing I really missed. Amen!! Before I started at SLU I didn't realize that I would miss the experience, but I did. St. Louis in the fall is absolutely beautiful. Imagine being able to watch the Bills on a crisp autumn afternoon. Having a real homecoming, tailgating, and the pageantry and fun that are part of the football experience. Something to bring alums back to campus, something that will help people reconnect with their school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bay Area Billiken Posted November 7, 2007 Author Share Posted November 7, 2007 Amen!! Before I started at SLU I didn't realize that I would miss the experience, but I did. St. Louis in the fall is absolutely beautiful. Imagine being able to watch the Bills on a crisp autumn afternoon. Having a real homecoming, tailgating, and the pageantry and fun that are part of the football experience. Something to bring alums back to campus, something that will help people reconnect with their school. Absolutely. That's what I witnessed Saturday at Fordham, and what moved me to start this thread. Right there in the Bronx were old alumni, Jesuits, students, cheerleaders, and the Band. We had a great time Saturday. We got to see 2 Jesuit schools battling for the Patriot League championship and automatic playoff bid on a nippy, football weather afternoon, with the wind blowing the colorful fall leaves and the smoke from the bar-b-que in the air. I couldn't help but think why can't we have this at St. Louis U.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurking Dog Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 Here's a good article on nonscholarship D-I football. http://desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll...9/1091/SPORTS02 If you can get past the headline, notice that the PFL will probably announce expansion this month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 Here's a good article on nonscholarship D-I football. http://desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll...9/1091/SPORTS02 If you can get past the headline, notice that the PFL will probably announce expansion this month. Have any other schools been rumored to be adding non-scholarship programs - schools that previously did not have football? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurking Dog Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 Have any other schools been rumored to be adding non-scholarship programs - schools that previously did not have football? Aside from Campbell, which is already scrimmaging in preparation for 08, no D-I schools have announced nonscholarship programs at this point. However, I believe Detroit Mercy is close to making an announcement. They completed a multi-purpose field this fall and have been talking up football. The article mentioned that Viverito had a meeting with potential future nonscholarship football schools. Here's the list. I hope I haven't forgotten any... Detroit Mercy (only one ready to move soon) Mercer High Point Lipscomb Evansville Kennesaw State** Harding (would move existing program from D-II)** ** considered to be less serious than other attendees What may start as 2 divisions/12 members could end up looking like the format for A-10 basketball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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