We need acknowledgment there is a problem

[davidnark]

Someone needs to admit that something has gone terribly wrong when 10 years ago I could count on watching most Billiken road games on FSN Midwest and today I have to listen to Internet radio...when 10 years ago we went to-to-tow with Marquette, Cincy, and Louisville and today we get it handed to us on the road against St. Bony...when 10 years ago we had multiple sell outs and 17,000 seats in the stands and today we get 7,000 middle-aged men and retirees buying time until golf season starts...when 10 years ago we had three NCAA appearances and 2 NCAA tournament wins to talk about and today we are adding a sixth year to the NCAA drought...when 10 years ago flying charter was the norm, not the exception...when 10 years ago the most influential member of the local media was singing our praises, not calling us irrelevant...when 10 years ago we had actual signed recruits to look forward to, not fantasies about 17-year olds who will inevitably run to the ACC or SEC...when 10 years ago our coach was the most popular guy in town and today our coach is best-known for not cheating.

Let's point the fingers to, and ask the questions of, those who are ultimately accountable. It would sure be a shame to open a new arena against a no-name directional school with only 2/3rds of the tickets sold and half the seats full.

[Schasz]

I feel your pain Nark, but my fear is that until big time donors become fed up with being mediocre and make their voice heard to Rev. Biondi, then it will be business as usual down at the Frost Campus as far as the basketball program is concerned.

[Bay Area Billiken]

I believe you are correct.

All these questions are really for after the season. There is still a season to salvage now.

On the other hand, maybe the attention will not be as acute post-season. I just don't want this affecting what is left of this season, if that is at all possible.

There are still 3 winnable, must win home games left on the schedule this year.

[Bay Area Billiken]

Also, in the overall history of SLU Hoops, those crowds of 17,000+ during the Spoonball Era look more and more like the exception, as opposed to the rule.

SLU Hoops really hasn't recovered from Spoon's departure. What was it about Spoon having to account for that ice cream cone as the straw that broke the camel's back?

Spoon was not the greatest recruiter, but he was very popular. He also had his share of bad, sub-.500 years at SLU.

Even under Lorenzo Romar, the slow decline started. And Romar is a highly respected coach in most circles, both as a bench coach and as a recruiter. I know that Romar was the Coach at the Miracle of Memphis, and that SLU made that NCAA Tournament appearance in his first year. But the cupboard was pretty barren when he left.

During this time, there have also been 2 AD's.

As the SLU program went into this slow decline, the conference domino moves happened. And there went most of SLU's main rivals to the Big East. Had those conference shifts occurred when Spoon was in his heyday at SLU, would SLU be in the Big East today?

It is just a difficult situation right now. But believe me, it has been much, much worse in the past. SLU was at rock bottom after Ron Ekker. SLU is no where near those times right now.

[brianstl]

People have been talking about these problems for twenty years. These problems only disappeared for a short time when we were in Conference USA and the Great Midwest. We received extra money in those days from conference revenue that let us ignore the root problems.

We have had outdated facilities since the Grawer years. Those facilities have only become more outdated since. We have had an under funded program since that time too. The only thing that has kept the ship from sinking has been the amazing job that they have done in hiring coaches since Ecker.

It is all starting to catch up to the program now. Biondi is still getting more than he is willing to pay for. This program should be below average, not average. It is amazing that it was able to be above average for as long as it was. A new coach will would be like treating a brain tumor with aspirin. It might cover the pain for a while but you are still dying from cancer. Unless Biondi wants to address the funding problems, this program is going to die a slow death. The new arena is just like buying a new outfit for the cancer patient. The patient is still going to die if they don't cure the real problem. The real problem is Biondi committing everything necessary to become a top 50 program.

[Bay Area Billiken]

As I recall, since Rich Grawer was the coach, SLU has had the following AD's:

Jim Bakken

Joe Yates

Debbie Yow

Doug Woolard

Cheryl Levick

That's 5 AD's in the last 17 years or so.

Spoon's departure and the more recent conference domino moves occurred while Woolard was SLU AD.

[Bay Area Billiken]

The practice facility (West Pine Gym) has been archaic for decades. It was outdated well before Rich Grawer arrived at SLU. When Grawer arrived, he at least got the place painted and made some cosmetic changes. Ironically, one of the first things he did was get the old MVC school banners out of mothballs and had them hung in the gym, even though SLU was then in the MCC, not the MVC.

One SLU Coach said he literally closed his eyes when he first showed a recruit West Pine Gym.

SLU now has a state of the art practice and game facility being built. So at least that part of the equation has been addressed.

[willie]

Was Larry Preo pre or post Jim Bakken?

[davidnark]

It doesn't matter how long this has been a problem. What matters is that it is a problem TODAY. This history of the problem is only relevant to the extent it provides data that can be used to solve the problem. I want SLU's leadership to acknowledge that there are problems with budgeting, conference affiliation, TV contracts, coaching, salaries, and/or whatever else, and I want them to outline a plan to fix the problems. Until they do so, why should Bernie Miklasz or any other fan or member of the local media take the administration's goal of having a top men's basketball program seriously?

[SLUDrew]

Why does SLU's mediocre basektball history make what is happening today acceptable? I really can't fathom that line of thought.

Following that logic there would be a caste system in college basketball in which the elite are always the elite, the mediocre are always mediocre, and the bottom dwellers are always the bottom dwellers. THIS IS NOT THE CASE. College basektball's power structure is fluid and does change. Yes, there are some very prominent programs which have remained elite for decades, BUT there are constantly programs rising above their histories to achieve success at the highest level. Why should we not expect that at SLU??????????????

[Box and Won]

"Why does SLU's mediocre basektball history make what is happening today acceptable? I really can't fathom that line of thought."

Me neither. As a point of comparison, I went and checked out Gonzaga's press guide. Their history was extremely mediocre, with no postseason appearances until 1994 (NIT). They had more NIT appearances than NCAA appearances (3 NIT, 2 NCAA) in the 90's, and then exploded on the scene starting in 1999 - they've been in the Big Dance every year since then.

I guess they never used their mediocre history as an excuse.

[Canadian]

Its because our fans accept LOSING!!! THEY ACCEPT MEDIOCRITY!!!!

All the old timers here just want the kids to have fun, win or lose. I'm sorry if the sounds selfish, but PUT A DAMN WINNER on the court!!! With winning comees enjoyment, and SLU basketball is the farthest thing from enjoyment I can fathom.

Year in and year out other mid major programs have blown by us and into the national spotlight while our fans are satisfied with another 17-12 season, struggling for a post season bid.

This was supposed to be our year, and it was a complete and utter FAILURE. And the kool-aid crowd such as Billikan loves mediocrity. He represents the worst of the Billiken culture out there. There is no chance at turning around the program when you have folks like Billikan accepting such historic mediocrity.

SLU's rising astronomically in the academic ranks while our athletic program is in a complete state of neutral. There's really no excuse and to listen to Billikan (referring to all koolaid drinkers, not specifically him) and his kind, just frustrates me to no end. HOW DO YOU EXPECT TO WIN IN A CULTURE FILLED WITH BILLIKANS?!?!

We need massive culture change and that's my goal here.

[Tonka]

good post. I share your concerns and frustrations. Question though, are you going to ask the powers that be to acknowledge it? I say this because I never feel like it ever gets to that point. Believe me, I think it's a bold move but as a donor and a seaason ticket holder not only do I think the powers would be would have a conversation, but I think they are obligated to. What does everybody think the best approach is to get what David is asking for? And, who is going to do it and when?

[GOPBilliken]

Duh

[brianstl]

I was not saying to accept the mediocre history. I was trying to point out what the problem is. It is Biondi. Everything else is just a symptom of the problem. Until he makes a true committment to having a top 50 program, nothing else matters. The coach doesn't matter, the AD doesn't matter, and sadly the new facilities will not matter. He is becoming the Bill Bidwill of college hoops.

[Larry the Legend]

but we sure have some nice statues on campus. If you were a recruit wouldn't you want to come to SLU just so you could gaze at some of the crap that Biondi has paid for? Not this guy.

I will commend his effort at transforming SLU into one of the more impressive looking private city schools in the land.... however, his athletic IQ leaves something to be desired. And I agree that until he makes an effort to either step up the resources to take the program to the next level, SLU will be stuck at average with .500 seasons coupled with the occassional 17-12 record.

[Bay Area Billiken]

I've never accepted the bad history either. History does provide a reference point to try to determine some of the roots of the problems. And it should show people that things are not quite as bad as they think they are right now. And I know this has been a very disappointing season.

Although SLU Hoops can be better, and actually has been better, it also has been much worse. Some of the fans have no idea how bad it was at one time. We're talking about 2 sets of attendance figures, both of them pathetic, no cheerleaders, rather a dance team, no student pep band, even no Billiken during Ekker's time, until this poster and his college roommate refused to leave Ekker's office our Senior year until he let us restore the true Billiken mascot. We formed our own band in the dorm that played at one end, while the official rent-a-jazz band played at the other end. We formed the SLU Crew, the predecessor of the Blue Crew.

As for the team, how can anyone forget that Ron Ekker "offense," which seemed to consist of 3 or 4 guys holding the ball over their heads and throwing a weak pass around the perimeter? Try to beat a National Championship team like Louisville. Dunk, dunk. SLU got destroyed by teams like that.

Do you realize that SLU once drew 3,200 people for a game against then #1 ranked DePaul?

The point: there are problems, but they are not fatal. They once were nearly fatal. Did you know that we were scared that SLU was going to drop to Division 2 or lower? Let's not go back there. I don't think SLU is anywhere near that stage.

[inthelou]

Then why did Brad begin his hiring press conference by talking about a national championship?

[Billiken Law]

>The practice facility (West Pine Gym) has been archaic for

>decades. It was outdated well before Rich Grawer arrived at

>SLU. When Grawer arrived, he at least got the place painted

>and made some cosmetic changes. Ironically, one of the

>first things he did was get the old MVC school banners out

>of mothballs and had them hung in the gym, even though SLU

>was then in the MCC, not the MVC.

>

>One SLU Coach said he literally closed his eyes when he

>first showed a recruit West Pine Gym.

>

excuses. Other programs have had poor or outdated facilites and have recruited well to them. Did you ever see Marquette's old practice facility? West Pine is superior to that. Ever been to Washington State? Pullman is in the middle of wheat fields (it makes Columbia look exciting), and the practice facility (they sometimes practice in the arena but not all the time) is inadequate (weight room is nice, however). Remember Gonzaga's old Kennel? The job is to get players to overlook that. Sell the school, sell the program potential, sell playing in a place like Savvis, the city of St. Louis, etc. It can be done by the right coach.

[Bay Area Billiken]

Yes. I've been in Marquette's old on-campus gym. I've seen the old Kennel too at Gonzaga.

SLU hoops has been on a slow decline since Spoon left. I agree that the right coach can win at SLU. Rich Grawer and Charlie Spoonhour wrote the blueprints about how to have success at SLU. Grawer recruited some very good players. Spoon was an excellent bench coach. Both of them had their bad years, but overall they were both successful.

[WhiteHall_Billiken]

>

>Do you realize that SLU once drew 3,200 people for a game

>against then #1 ranked DePaul?

>

>

I was at that game. It was my first Billiken game. Terry Cummings signed an autograph for my friend and I during the game. The score was out of hand and he was on the bench. Your're right, there was no one there and we ended up sitting right behind Depaul's bench. Ray Meyer was so close I could have touched him. I thought it was a big deal as I was in still in high school. It was only a couple of years later that I was back at a Billikens game to see Gray and Douglas....it didn't take long to turn around. This team and the program doesn't need turned around, it just needs a boost, something to kick it in the rear to get where I think we all want it to be.

[brianstl]

Was anyone on here at the the game against either Oklahoma City or Oral Roberts (I can't remember which) when it snowed? I was just a kid and at one point me and my dad decided to count the people in the stands at the old Keil. I have know idea what the offical attendance was, but if my memory is correct we counted 186 people.

[Bay Area Billiken]

I remember being at the old Kiel on a Monday night for Oklahoma City.

I don't remember the snow, but it wasn't a SRO crowd. Of course, in those days, most crowds were in the 2,000's.

[Canadian]

This is because we realize we SHOULD have a great thing going here. We have our most talented team, by most accounts, in years, even decades,along with a new arena on the way. Yet we are regressing. We are regressing at such a rapid pace in the athletic department that noone knows where it will stop.

We SHOULD be winning, and we aren't. Brad motivates NOONE. He doesn't motivate fans to come to the games, he doesn't motivate his players, his game plans are atrocious since he tried to adopt a new "uptempo" style of basketball, etc etc etc. Brad has been completely overmatched in recruiting. He's landed Liddell and Lisch somehow, but here's a news flash, YOU DON'T WIN A CONFERENCE TITLE WITH TWO ABOVE AVERAGE PLAYERS!

The athletic departments embaressment of a marketing department is to blame. The lack of budget is to blame. And we think a new stadium is gonna fix this. HELL NO. Brad needs to be fired, and FIRED NOW in my opinion. This season is quickly spiraling out of control and driving fans away by the 100's.

Get ready for another ice age in Billiken basketball. Too bad it'll be in a brand spanking new stadium.

[Larry the Legend]

guys, what years were these? That's right 20+ years ago. I know things were bad but come on.... things need to change and if we are going to keep up that St. Louis attitude of "it's not that bad, things were worse" crap, then this program will just be AVERAGE and not change!!! I think a lot of St. Louisians are reluctant for change and are willing to accept AVERAGE. Not this guy. People complained about the New Busch Stadium.

I do not want to wait 50 years to see this program finally take off. If the University is OK with just being a mid level and average athletic University, then fine. Just don't go on record stating that you want SLU to be a top 50 program and this and that. CL, BS, and Biondi have all stated this. Yes, I do believe you need to set goals... but you have to be committed and use resources to obtain them.

Stop living in the past and make an effort to change the future. We can sit here all day and talk about how the past was so bad and today's program is not even close.. I am tired of it!!!