Some questions for everybody on this board?

[brianstl]

What are the plusses that Brad has when he tries to go out and sell the program? What are the clear advantages that SLU has over other schools around the country and in our conference? What does this metro area offer that is better than other areas around the country?

[SLUDrew]

What does Carbondale offer? Waht does Omaha offer? What does Peoria offer?

[brianstl]

They all offer a better situation facility wise than SLU does currently. That includes either on campus venue or a being the venues number one tannant. It also includes having better practice facility areas than us. It also includes having better living quaters for players on campus. They also are not located in the heart of the most violent city in the country.

Drew you were the one that said SLU had advantages over the members of our conference. Would you please state them?

[SLUDrew]

If facilities are going to be the reason Brad doesn't get players, explain to me how half of this confererence plays in gyms most self-respecting high schools wouldn't play in, but these schools get players.

Many of these schools are in major metro areas up east are are low down on the totem pole in terms on relevance in their respective cities, yet they get players. There is not another division one team within 100 miles of SLU's campus.

At SLU, you are going to play in a brand new facility for three years (if you are in the class of 2007) No, its not in existence yet, but with all the renderings and virtual tours that are out there of the arena, you don't exactly need a vivid imagination to see what it will be like.

You will be the only basketball show in town in a metro area nearing 3 million. Many of our A-10 brethren play in towns with NBA teams, and competing D-1 teams which dwarf their exposure. If you are halfway decent you can expect crowds of 9-10,000. If you are real good, 15-17,000 is a real possibility at SLU.

[brianstl]

Wait you mean I can take a virtual tour and look at drawings of a building that isn't fully funded and might be finished in twelve months? You also are going to house me in outdated former low income housing? Where do I sign? I'm in.

[StLouBlue]

The most important thing he has to offer right now is playing time. This also goes for the '08 class with 4 seniors graduating after next season. There is a real opportunity for any player to come in and earn playing time. Brad is also very willing to play his top players big minutes. If an incoming player is in the top 7 rotation, 20 plus minutes is certainly possible.

Second should be playing an uptempo style with some talented players next to you in TL & KL. The core of this team returns which should make keep this team around 20 wins, a couple big additions should put us in the tourney.

Next if I was Brad I would point to the development of players like IV & LM and TL's outside shooting. There have been development misses but every program has that also.

Then I would point to the new arena and explain that this is a special time to be part of SLU basketball. Then the campus and explain if they didn't already know, the whole SLU package is top-notch.

Then I would probably avoid West Pine if at all possible and hope there were girls sunbathing in the quad.

[SLUDrew]

Would you rather take a virtual tour of a state of the art facility or take a real tour of a dump like they play in at Duquesne?

[Westy03]

A little off topic but why do they make the players live there. Those places are dumps and thats an understatement. If the players have to live on campus why dont they make them live in the Village. The Village is a little smaller living area but a lot nicer, not even comparable. I always wondered this but if anyone has an answer its much appreciated.

[brianstl]

I think those are some very good selling points. It is also a very good idea not to go in West Pine.

[brianstl]

Well they don't house the players in crappy former public housing. They have better practice and training facilities than SLU currently has. Fordham's home court is a fun place to play and see a game.

[brianstl]

Look I am not happy with the job Brad has done the last twelve months, but no one should act like he is playing with pocket aces either.

[BleacherBum593]

Brian - one area of recruiting that I've never seen discussed here as far as recruiting handicaps and I'm curious if people think it might play a role in a player not coming to St Louis. And that's the religious aspect of the University.

Since I've never attended a class at SLU, I don't know the "culture" of being a student there. How much is it stressed (religion) to students? And how would that affect non-catholics?

[MB73]

Carbondale-Springfield-Omaha, etc:

I would say they all have:

-better, cozier campus basketball facilities (until Chaefetz is

finished)

-better central located conference with more natural local rivalries

(who wants to play in Rhode Island on a Tuesday night??)

-better recent NCAA tournament participation / track record

-MAYBE some softer courses for marginal athletes (I am not sure but

I'll bet some of them have PE or health management/cake courses

-MOSTLY friendlier-type campuses

-football at SOME, even though not "big time"

SIGNIFICANT STUFF; not deal breakers, but important.

[slufanskip]

1. Very good academics (yes, some students care)

2. Brand New building w/ state of the art training facilities

3. Main player in a large metro area w/ no NBA team

4. Large Metro area with many things to do

5. Large Metro area w/ great job opportunities after graduation

6. Play with TL and KL

7. History of the A10

8. HOT Volleyball coach

9. Baby Blues (Abomb and Ian and Justin Love all got hooked up)

Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman

Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would have helped club.

[DoctorB]

good question about the religious element at SLU.

I think whether it should be counted as a plus or minus would depend very much on the kid/family. There is a strong religious flavor on the campus and many students really like that. Some may not, of course.

I also think our religious element is stronger at this point, and perhaps one might say more genuine, than it is at the universities generally considered more research oriented and thus with a somewhat higher academic reputation. Among the Catholic schools that would be Notre Dame, BC, and Georgetown, at the very least. In other words, compared to those schools, I think our campus would be more authentic and less secularized. (yes this is a flaming generalization but take it for what it's worth).

Last -- I think it is a terrific reason to recruit, for instance, the excellent Catholic power programs in places like Indianapolis, Cincinnati, Chicago, etc (and of course locally). I wonder why we do not have more success with the top kids at Catholic schools? Seems like a natural connection for many athletes who have some degree of seriousness about their faith.

[davidnark]

>-better recent NCAA tournament participation / track record

When Brad took over as head coach, SLU had been to the NCAA tournament 4 of the prior 8 seasons and had been to the postseason 6 of the prior 8 seasons.

[davidnark]

> They also are not located in the heart of the most violent

>city in the country.

I have never once heard any recruit indicate or suggest that he had concerns about SLU because of violence in the City of St. Louis. Except for coastal recruits who may have a predisposition against the Midwest, SLU's location in the City of St. Louis is often cited as an advantage for SLU over more isolated rural universities.

[huzzah]

I am not sure the religious element would play a part. When I went to SLU approx 45% of the student body was non catholic. The campus is currently home to the Islamic Center for St. Louis. I see many different races currently attending the school and I have observed many female muslims. I can tell by their dress, but it is harder to pick out the males. However, the female muslims seem comfortable and fit right in. I am somewhat mystified by the comments on athletic housing. Unless I am wrong I think the athletes are housed in the low rise apartment bldgs at the end of Laclede and adjacent to the new arena. I have not been inside the buildings, but I certainly do not think they are dumps. In fact my impression is that on campus student housing looks good. The campus is beautiful. There are lakes w/ fountains and fish and faux falls, there are clock towers, many of the buildings are new and the older ones have been rehabed, flowers abound, grass is green, art work is ever present, there are on campus museums, Cupples House, an area w/ outdoor pools, Simon Center which is a large fitness center, various coffee houses and the student center has two coffee shops, a movie kiosk, a florist, and eating facilities. Safety is quite good. The arena structure is above ground. Adjacent to the school are several restuarants and bars, Sarah Ave has good restuarants, and Euclid is not that far away. Downtown and Soulard are readily accessible. I think the Wash U campus may be better than ours, but I have been to other campuses and SLU compares favorably. Fr Biondi has done a great job. St. Louis is small, but has the attributes of a big city because at one time we were the 4th largest city in the US. In summary I don't feel the city, the campus, religion, athletic facilities, or student housing is the source of recruiting woes. I know the new arena is not completed, but construction results are readily visible. As David Nark recently posted SLU is ranked 77th academically. We have many positive selling points.

[Eddie_Gaedel]

Well, we could tell them, if they're from the area of course, that their parents could spend a fortune watching away games if they are so inclined. We could also sell them on getting a rivalry going with Fordham or Rhode Island.

[Quest]

Neither did Tom Cream, but somehow he convinced the greatest player in modern-day Marquette history to sign.

[courtside]

>

>good question about the religious element at SLU.

>

>I think whether it should be counted as a plus or minus

>would depend very much on the kid/family. There is a strong

>religious flavor on the campus and many students really like

>that. Some may not, of course.

>

>I also think our religious element is stronger at this

>point, and perhaps one might say more genuine, than it is at

>the universities generally considered more research oriented

>and thus with a somewhat higher academic reputation. Among

>the Catholic schools that would be Notre Dame, BC, and

>Georgetown, at the very least. In other words, compared to

>those schools, I think our campus would be more authentic

>and less secularized. (yes this is a flaming generalization

>but take it for what it's worth).

>

> Last -- I think it is a terrific reason to recruit, for

>instance, the excellent Catholic power programs in places

>like Indianapolis, Cincinnati, Chicago, etc (and of course

>locally). I wonder why we do not have more success with

>the top kids at Catholic schools? Seems like a natural

>connection for many athletes who have some degree of

>seriousness about their faith.

Nothing personal Doc, but you throw out a lot of theories and thoughts, etc....without any evidence to support them. You also then proceed to challenge actual theories or statements supported by facts.

SLU has approx 42% Catholic Student Body. Notre Dame 85%, Boston College over 70%, Marquette close to 70% Georgetown's Catholic enrollment is similar to, but slightly higher than SLU.

Notre Dame instituted a policy approx. 10 years ago that said 1 out of every 2 hired faculty members would be preferrably Catholic to boost its once 80% Catholic faculty back up closer to its higher past.

Flaming generaliziation, yep.

[Clock_Tower]

Good questions.

IMO, facilities, academic rankings ... all help ... but mostly these items are expected and really only come into play to work against a school. For instance, a kid might come to town and expect A level facilities and be disappointed at the C level ones and leave without a good feeling about the school. Also, poor facilities feed into the negative thoughts about SLU not being a "big time" program or what you get from a non-BCS school. After the new arena is completed, I would not expect recruits to just start coming to SLU because of the facilites. For instance: Dayton has had great facilities since the late 1970s not anywhere the success equal to their facilities. Kind of like when you have your home for sale. Your home will not sell for much more simply because there is a new/newer roof on it but your house will definitely sit and not sell or will sell for much less if the roof is in bad shape.

Instead, recruiting will work if you (the recruit):

1. can feel comfortable with the coach. Presume Brad is OK on this.

2. can expect winning basketball (tradition, recent success). Tough challenge facing Brad. Little success despite Spoon years.

3. can expect to play without sitting the bench too much. Our best selling point - for as long as I can remember - especially for local kids who can be the big fish in the small pond.

4. can feel you will get the exposure you crave (TV, radio, print, other good teams and crowds). Very tough challenge for Brad but largely outside of his control. Good luck CL.

[kevinfootes]

the most important thing Brad can do is sell himself. There are 300+ D1 programs. SLU is a good school in a good town, but there are many other schools fitting the same bill.

[slu72]

And the bottom line on all this is does the kid feel comfortable with the coach, his system, the team, other new recruits. When you see programs like VCU, Geo Mason, Winthrop have success at a high level, you have to scratch your head and say why not us?

[DoctorB]

Courtside;

wrong again.

The % of Catholic students is an interesting stat, but largely irrelevant to my point. (By the way, SLU also has a large % of Christians of other denominations. in particular evangelical protestants, plus some from other religions.)

It is not the students who primarily determine the authenticity/secularization of a school (thank goodness), it is the professors (which may or may not be a good thing).

And if you think that Notre Dame has a more religious faculty, you are really out of the loop. I know people at all of those schools and believe me the faculty there are much less committed to the Christian basis of their universities that SLU is. It has very little impact in hiring even at SLU, and much less at Notre Dame, where if anything a profession of faith would likely be a strike against a candidate. Generally, the more research oriented a college is, the more secularized and the less committed to religious dogma.

Your statement about UND's "policy" is pretty much a joke. Similar policies have been mentioned here at SLU and largely dismissed. Having been intimately involved in hiring at SLU, I am just telling you the way it is.

Does my experience in these areas, and my knowledge of the field of higher education, qualify as evidence, in your opinion? Evidently not. In that case, you might like to actually read a few books on these trends, yourself, for further evidence. Good ones to start with are George Marsden's THE SOUL OF THE UNIVERSITY and Jim Burtchael's THE DYING OF THE LIGHT. Let's continue this conversation after you wade through those, OK?