Billiphan Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 I've heard a number of people on here say that we are a better team this year. If that's true I think the difference is slim. I think everyone thought we'd be better but in hindsight are we? I know are record is better but are we a better team. DP and LM have played better but KL(because of injury) and DB are worse. I can't see a huge difference in IV. TL is still TL. We don't have Dreja. We've received marginal play from the bench. We still may contend for the A10 but the conference has been poor this year. I haven't studied the numbers so maybe there is something I'm missing but what are we doing so well this year that we didn't do a year ago? Don't get me wrong, I don't this we're really worse but I haven't seen a vast improvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinfootes Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 At the end of the season SLU will have more than 16 wins, so I say that's better. I think we'll know a lot more after the Ole Miss game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 I think we have a better record against better competition. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would have helped club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 we're more experienced. I'd say DP, LM, TL have improved. KL was shooting at a pretty good clip until his elbow and hand injuries. IV's showing more aggressiveness, much needed. I think we've won games that we would have lost in prior years. Playing more up tempo. One thing I noticed in the UNC game vs the last time I saw them on TV, vs St.Joes, was better ball movement generating better shots earlier in the clock. We weren't hitting them, but at least we were getting them. Overall, a little better. We didn't do anything recruiting wise in the off season to make a significant leap forward. We kept talking in the off season how deep we are at the guard position. We're really not since DB has not shown much improvement, and LM is the PF. This leaves us w/ only 3 D1 capable guards, and we still lack another inside presence to take some heat off IV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schasz Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 It is hard for me to make a definitive statement on the merits of the team being better because I have only seen them play UNC. I would buy into the notion that we have won some games that in previous years would have more than likely been losses; however, we did not really compete as well as one would have liked in the games against the two top rated BCS schools. I still see shooting beyond the arc as a real negative for our current team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 as skip pointed out, we have a much improved record with a tougher schedule. the billikens are averaging 8 more points per game. phan you claimed that brown and lisch are not better, yet brown's scoring average is up from 4.7 to 6.3, his shooting percentage is up to 40% whereas last year he shot at a 35% pace. lisch is scoring 3 ppg more than last year even though he has been playing hurt most of the month of december. lisch also has improved his asst to turnover ratio from 1.3 assists and 1.6 turnovers last year to team leading 3 assists and 1.3 turnovers this year. i will give you the observations on ian, however, the last couple of games we have been seeing more aggressive play from ian than the rest of the opening games. there is no arguing polk and meyer. i think there is a tremendous difference. if you want to bet that we will end up no better than last year, i'll take that bet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheltiedave Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 Looking at the two main bball sites, we are slotted to make the dance this year. Most people would say that is "better." Brad said we needed to run this year, after being ranked 307, 319, and 315 the last three years in possessions per game. This year we are #169, averaging 68.4 possessions per game. The stats indicate we are playing a more exciting basketball pace. Ian, Tommie, and Kevin have all incrementally improved as expected. Dwayne and Luke have both been pleasant surprises, but they also were the best high school players, so being solid players as college juniors is not a stretch. Kevin's injury, the lack of a finishing PF, and the very slow learning curve on how to deliver an entry pass to Ian in the paint are disguising the substantial improvements. We still are working too hard to put points on the board, but teams with weaknesses are defensed to expose their faults. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kappy96 Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 Roy, Your point that DB's scoring average is up is not comparing apples to apples. If you recall, last year DB got out of the gates hot against Eastern Illinois and then slowly disappeared as the year progressed much like he is doing again this year. I would venture to be that by years end his ppg numbers will be more like they were last year. DB is also averaging 4 more minutes per game this year because of AD's depature. On KL, I am confident he is a better player at this point than he was last year, but again I think the statistics are misleading. KL's ppg are being inflated by his 2 huge games this year. Also, let's not forget that KL didn't start until 1/3 way throught the season last year as well. Now do I think that he will end up averaging more points this year than last, yes and he should. But my point is that comparing stats midway through this year to last years full season stats is not accurate or fair for your argument that they have improved. I think we are a tougher team this year who is still learning how to win. We don't have a grasp of the offense that Brad want's to run (not sure if Brad has a grasp of what offense he wants to run, but that is another thread) and we have not shown the ability to play a complete game. Our depth is a problem and only Brad is to blame on that front. The A-10 schedule will serve as a good benchmark for our level of play. If we truly have improved and learned from this "tough" schedule, we should go 12-4 in the A-10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 then we should wait until year end to compare and make statements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 fan Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 This group of players are much tougher and seasoned than last year. They have a strong desire to succeed and that has carried them in games we would have lost last year. Heck, we've been trailing at halftime of most of the last 8 games, and have found a way to come back and win 6 of them. That would not have happened last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NashvilleBilliken Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 "KL's ppg are being inflated by his 2 huge games this year. " PPG is an average. You can't pick and choose which games count toward your average. It's just as bad as saying Luke's average doesn't count either because he shoots layups. I guess since Ian is 6'10 his rebound average is inflated as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiphan Posted December 27, 2006 Author Share Posted December 27, 2006 So if there is improvement it's marginal at best. I still haven't seen this team put together a complete game against a quality opponent. If this squad keeps improving then they have a shot at the A10 title if not we're in trouble. I'm looking forward to conference play to see how we stack up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kappy96 Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 I realize ppg is an average. My point was that comparing the AVERAGES at this point in the season to the AVERAGES for the entire season last year is not a fair or accurate comparison of AVERAGES. There are other variables that factor in to whether or not a player has improved or not that cannot be fully measured until a full season has played out. You can manipulate the numbers anyway you want to support a point of view, but the full body of work is the only true equalizer. Also, your attempt to belidle my comments with your Ian example was ridiculous and made no sense. I was simply stating an opinion and could do without the attitude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 Yes SLU is better this year. Some players are down statistically, and others up, etc...but the best players were thrown into the fire last year, as they should have been, and thus are better prepared in closer games this season. SLU is a better team. Not a ton better, but better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 Ian's rebounding average has been inflated from day 1 as he gets an extraordinary amount of missed shots that just gravitate towards his open arms regardless of where he is positioned on the court. I think it has something to do with him being Greek and Thor ... I'm not 100% sure though Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would have helped club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 I think your opinion is right ... for example what did Kevin average in A10 play ... significantly better than in non conference games ... or compare what Kevin averaged as a starter to this years numbers. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would have helped club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kappy96 Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 Kevin averaged 12.95 ppg game as a starter last year and 12.88 in A-10 play (including the Conf Tourney game). Non-conference ppg average 8.5 ppg. As a starter in non-conference play (3 games) he averaged 13.3 ppg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 I think to become the best we can as a team ... we have to find our defensive intensity ... last year we were a defensive team, it is who we were and we played defense with a certain level of intensity that we have not found for an entire game this year. This year we were billed as an uptempo team ... I think in that change we lost the focus on D ... whether coach changed how hard he emphasized it or whether the players have subconsiously put it on the back burner with their obvious intent to play faster ... it's gone ... and we need to find it. We don't have the offensive talent to just run teams out of the gym. We needed to keep our defensive average the same while increasing our offense 5-6 ppg. If after UNC and A&M and even Houston the guys don't realize that we can't run with the big dogs and win at a high level ... we are in trouble. We need to get back to playing better defense and push the ball when the opportunity is there. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would have helped club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 I think if you are going to compare at this time of year ... those are the numbers you have to compare with. 13ppg. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would have helped club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kappy96 Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 It's only three games so it's not the best measuring stick, but at least it's apples to apples. To your earlier point, the A-10 season will really provide a good gauge for a lot of numbers both individual and team. If we have improved, it will show against conference opponents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NashvilleBilliken Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 My Ian comment was more directed at Cheese (who has yet to respond to any of my posts questioning his diminishment of Luke as our power forward). But in regard to the averages thing, my point still stands. You can sit here and say it is inflated because of two good games. Or you can say it is deflated due to 3 injury games. Personally, I just take the stats at face value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kappy96 Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 Exactly my point, this early in the season 2 good games or 3 "injury games" will inflate or deflate an average and therefore really shouldn't be used in any comparison to a prior full years ppg total. Thanks for the clarification on the Ian comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheltiedave Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 Billiphan, what are your thoughts, and why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Band Legend Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 nm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiphan Posted December 28, 2006 Author Share Posted December 28, 2006 >Billiphan, what are your thoughts, and why? As previously stated, I can't tell you the difference between the offensive or defensive numbers fromt this year or last for the team or the individuals. I would venture to say that we're marginally better this year because we've learned, at least thus far, to finish games and win games even though we haven't played as well as we're capable. I know what the records say but I don't know that this team, right now, is playing as well as last years team did down the stretch. Dreja could help score when the big 3 were off. DP and LM have improved but I'm not sold on either yet. I love them both but in a perfect world they're bench players. I'm waiting for a comlete game that I've yet to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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