slufanskip Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 I don't know if you are talking about my post or not but if you were ... I wasn't intending to knock you. SO if it came across that way I apologize. I just don't understand the point of arguing about which is economically more feasable ...an arena or a practice facility, unless you have all the facts regarding funding, costs, donations, etc... Personally I think just the better enviroment the arena will create by having more students in attendance will make the games more enjoyable ...and maybe increase donations. My seats are in the 3rd row in 105 ... and the section is usually half empty and very quiet. There are alot of older fans who barely cheer. I am usually up and very loud ... I get along great with the fans around and even get them going once in a great while ... but I think we need more noise, enthusiasm, and attitude ... I'm very sure more students down low, will help. This alone will help convince a recruit to come to SLU when he makes his visit. Can you imagine the Louisville game with a 13,000 seat arena packed to the brim ... including 3000 students going wild. Young kids like show ... so many times when I read a kids comments after he committs ...especially in Football ...he says I was at the so and so game and the place was going crazy ... I loved the atmosphere there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 kwijybo said "The most important fact is that arenas and practice facilities do not win games; good play and good coaching does " I agree with that and like the direction Sodes is going ... however, much like Bill Parcells complained, if your the chef wouldn't you like some control over the groceries? Would you look for your gourmet ingredients at Aldi? Frankly, good play and good coaching will take you only so far as the talent does. I advocate the new arena moreso for the atmosphere and the home-cooking advantage I think we can expect. Such an atmosphere might equate into more wins. More wins will get you more looks from "gorumet" players. I am not lost on the Quentin Richardson and Korleone Young name drops. More "gourmet" players .... more talent ..... can perpetuate the overall atmosphere. In today's day and age of little things possibly working to your advantage and putting you over the top, I think all that we can control we ought to strive to control. To me, that has always included an on-campus arena. As far as Marquette is concerned ... I read where the options on replacing Dwayne Wade are, in order, 1) Travis Deiner, 2) Scott Merritt or 3) Steve Novak. Gonna be a long year in Milwaukee based on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Law Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 One of the little known facts about the McGuire Center is that is that all operating costs were built into the original fundraising proposal and will be funded from an established endowment for the center. Ideally building an arena was the way to go for Marquette but it wasn't feasible in terms of property (no place to put it on campus), cost (other more pressing priorities like academic buildings and new dorms to accomodate record enrollments) and the fact that there are 2 arenas within 8 blocks of campus which thousands of students can walk to. The Bradley Center is a great facility for MU and many recruits have stated that they chose MU because of it (getting to play in a NBA facility). A few years ago a rampant debate on the MU board was "we should play our games at the old MECCA" (capacity 11,000). The administration laughed that off, saying that when full the BC provides an unparalled home court advantage. Now that MU is averaging 14000+ nobody talks about playing at the MECCA. I personally think SLU is making a mistake building the arena. Cost wise $80 million is WAY too much and wasn't it just a few years ago that ESPN named SAVVIS the toughest place in CUSA to play? The goal should be to improve the hoops program to fill SAVVIS. Building an arena will not ensure basketball success - look at how many of our CUSA brethren have their own arena, has it equaled better on-court performance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Law Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 I agree 100% with you. I talked to an administrator at Marquette last year about the whole conference situation. It's a heck of a lot harder to form a conference than just making phone calls, especially with the dependency on TV revenue and the lack of available time slots now due to established contracts (the MAC, so desperate for TV coverage is playing games on Friday nights). Plus, what about the fees each team has to pay for leaving their existing conference. Also, who says some of these teams want to leave? We all assume Butler would jump to move up but why? They are first or second every year in the Horizon and seem to do just fine now (sweet 16 last year). If they left would have to increase already tight funding to their programs and would be at an overall competitive disadvantage against the MU's, XU's and SLU's. There is also the automatic bid problem (4 years to wait). It's a lot easier in theory to form a conference than it is in practice and I have to think that is the main reason our ideal "Papal Conference" has never been seen as a viable option during this whole mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 I think SLU would be making a big mistake if they were building a new $40 million facility for women's basketball and volleyball. That's like buying an expensive sports car but fitting it with a cheap set of tires that limit its performance and handling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Law Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 Frankly, good play and good coaching will take you only so far as the talent does. I advocate the new arena moreso for the atmosphere and the home-cooking advantage I think we can expect. Such an atmosphere might equate into more wins. -If the answer was a new arena why is Louisville so successful? Freedom Hall is a dump and yet it is one hell of an atomosphere for a game. Penn State built a sparkling new arena, what has it done for their program? Assembly Hall in Bloomington isn't anything to write home about yet it doesn't seem to hold back IU. As far as Marquette is concerned ... I read where the options on replacing Dwayne Wade are, in order, 1) Travis Deiner, 2) Scott Merritt or 3) Steve Novak. Gonna be a long year in Milwaukee based on that. -No, those three, along with Dameon Mason, Todd Townsend, Karon Bradley and Carlton Christian will replace Wade. There is no way for one person to replace a talent like DW. However, there will be much more balance offensively. Remember that Wade played poorly against Holy Cross and Mizzou and it was Diener who carried MU. He's proved he can do it. MU will be a Sweet 16 caliber team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Law Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 the facility is a number of things that they are getting for $31 million. Offices for the athletic department and coaches, arena for women's hoops and volleyball, and practice courts so that teams don't have to practice from 9-11pm as some do now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 the "waiting period" for an automatic bid has not been cut in stone in years past. i believe both cusa and the great midwest only waited a year or two before getting an automatic bid. a lot has to do with the quality of the conference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Law Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 But now there are so many automatic bids that the power conferences added another team to the tourney rather than take an at-large away from one of their precious members who finish 8-8 in conference. Just try getting one now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 It's not the newness of the arena ...it is the size and on-campus location that will make the atmosphere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 i was a late band wagonjumper to the arena. but i now believe it is a fabulous vision. first, let me remind all that we arent going to be financing a 100% loan. father biondi and the board of directors have made it very clear this project will have an extremely large equity position. i wouldnt be surprised if by the time it is said and done less than 50% of the project will need any kind of financing if any at all. my gosh, slu already is claiming they have $10 million pledged without even officially releasing a plan or start an organized drive. and we know that at least 2 huge benefactors are just biding their time waiting to finish the deal. second, i have not heard the $80 million dollar figure lately. normally i hear in the sixty's. if marquette only has a practice facility for less than half that, i question the sense in that. seems like they might as well have spent the extra dollars and finished the job. romar and soderberg have both said savvis was an impressive tool to show the recruits as well. savvis is bigger and more extravagent than the bradley center. i visited the bradley center when the conference tourney was in milwaukee about 10 years ago, and while it is a nice facility, it isnt the palace the savvis is. even in the days that the billikens were top 7 in the country in attendance they couldnt fill savvis. there probably arent but 4-5 programs in the country that can. 13,000 will become a guaranteed sellout and a hot item ticket. i have seen the current projected drawings and plans for the biondi dome (however we were warned they are ever changing) and the place will be a palace as well. it will be a tool to not only recruit student athletes, but slu students period. the only thing that would render the project cancelled imo is if this conference shuffle business goes bad. but i am betting that wont happen. the place will fund itself. i am confident of it. too many events that end up at riverport or st charles because there isnt a decent more intimate setting between the savvis and the fox in the city. how many of those events dont even stop in st louis for that reason? i am happy marquette has a nice place to dress for practice, but when it is all said and done, the biondi dome will be stealing recruits. ultimately that will result in better teams and a better program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 Saint Louis HAS to get out of West Pine Gym. It is bad for the coaches and hurts recruiting. So then does SLU build an arena or a practice facility? While it could be less costly to build a practice facility and continue to rent Savvis to play games, there would be numerous DISadvantages: *The fact that the Bills wouldn't practice where they play games diminishes the home-court advantage. *Students won't come out in droves to Savvis, diminishing the home-court advantage. *SLU doesn't control dates or game times at Savvis. *The University wouldn't likely be able to use the practice facility for much outside of the athletics programs, meaning it would have less value to the student body and the community. As long as SLU can get the funds to build the arena, it should definitely do so. Not only will all of the above disadvantages (and more) be turned into advantages, but fans will also be able to walk around and outside the arena and take in the ambiance of Billiken basketball rather than Blues hockey. I don't mean this to be a personal attack, Law, but ever since your Golden Eagles reached the Final Four (and even a little bit before then), the things that you've written make me consider you much more of a die-hard Marquette fan who gives SLU some sympathy points because he attends school there than a true Billikens fan. You're only a little bit more of a Billikens fan than MUTGR, who also attended SLU after graduating from an MU (Mizzou). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 please enlighten us as to how many more automatic bids there are now as compared to 1995 when conference usa began play. besides, it looks as though conference usa may go away. if it did, wouldnt it make sense to give that bid to the new power conference that could have been formed? and if you had taken dayton and xavier, slu, marquette and depaul, and the big east basketball schools, i would think that conference would be considered a power conference immediately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillikenButch Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 I consider the on campus arena an investment in the University that can pay dividends down the road. Savvis does very little for homecourt advantage and it certainly has not improved any "tradition". Our own arena, where we control game dates and the atmosphere, where we can get more students to attend, where we can get more alumni on campus will lead to better days for the program. I'd much rather the University invest in that than in new office space for the AD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basketbill Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 the simple fact that slu can control the dates of the new arena is a major factor in building this arena. Lack of control has you playing a top ten team on saturday at noon rather than saturday night in prime time. The non conference schedule is going to be very important for SLU in the future controlling the dates is a must. as for recruits change from saavis to a brand new arena is a wash, except for the local recruits who come to west pine every year for camps etc....the arena will help the local recruits tremendously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 i have a possible biondi dome borchure in my hand. the biondi dome would have the main arena, two underground practice centers, a world class weight room, an academic learning center, a hall of fame room, a number of men's and women's locker rooms and lounges, a media room, banquet rooms, all the athletic offices, and a souvenir store. this thing isnt just a few rows of bleachers and a can around a concrete floor with two peach baskets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 to be fair, i remember seeing a graphic on an espn game for the billikens that savvis is one of the best "home court advantages" in the country. our record is very impressive at the savvis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SluSignGuy Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 Roy- Anyway you could photocopy that brochure and send it to me? Steve Rogers 114 Hall on Virginia Ave. 2601 Virginia Ave. Washington, DC 20052 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillikenButch Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 I am proud of how we play at home, but I do not credit the Savvis Center for our play. Do you think that has anything to do with the stadium? Are the other teams cold because of the ice? We have historically scrappy teams that play a style of ball that does not lend itself being blown out. If the home team is in the game late, odds favor them, particularly when you have a vocal crowd like we infrequently get. I would think that a stadium built for B-Ball will only increase our advantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 check your e-mail steve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 whether the facility does or not or how much it figures into it, doesnt really matter. the fact is that the billikens have been extremely successful at the savvis since built. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 a thought i just had when i read the opening sentence in thicks post above. why is it that west pine is a program debilitating dump for stlouis, but cameron indoor arena, which per the tv screen, looks to be only a larger version of our dump, is such a beloved and intregal part of the duke program? just curious. in no way am i supporting west pine, but my gosh, there are places just as bad or even worse than west pine that are considered assetts to their respective programs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 diener on the floor the same time with duane wade and diener on the floor without duane wade are two different things. for a reference, see matt baniak with larry hughes and matt baniak for three years without larry hughes. i am not saying that marquette wont function without duane. in fact, i notated right no this board a few days ago i believe marquette will be just fine this year. but i will be shocked if they approach final four status again this year without someone stepping into that all-american role immediately. you just dont replace players like that. heck we had love come in behind hughes and even justin couldnt carry the billikens to that same height with the same surrounding cast. so i am not buying your list of players carrying marquette to final four status again. top 50, maybe even top 25, but anymore than that, someone came out of nowhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 last nite, doug woolard pointed out that when slu built their impressive soccer field, and brought their games back to the campus, student attendance soared. the billikens are now in the top 10 in soccer attendance in the nation. and apparently most of the attendees are students. when i went to slu, more than 50% of the students were commuters. that has changed tremendously. my son is in the process of applying to slu for next year right now. and one of the brochures said that now it is like 95% of the student enrollment lives on campus. i had no idea it was that high. of course that still p!sses me off that those thousands of students arent taking the bus to the savvis now, but still, it makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 You dont think bringing the recruits into a full 13,000 seat on campus arena with a great new practice facility as oppossed to a half full savis and a west pine practice facility is a benefit in recruiting anything but local recruits Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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