SluSignGuy Posted June 18, 2003 Share Posted June 18, 2003 Taj- I love this part of your post: >Next season notwithstanding, I am looking down the line to >where I would like the team to be. My expectations are to >go to the NCAA more often than not so as our appearances >become more of an expected occurrence as opposed to a >freaking, once-a-decade celebration of a one-and-out game. That is the epitimy of Billiken Fandom. The good stuff doesn't happen often, but when it does, boy do we get excited! Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 i hope you are correct david. however, other than brad telling us he wants to recruit better players, we dont have any other reason to believe that husak and fericks are improvements over our last two inside players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 You always crack me up! Defend Deiner to the death then slam Heinrich for being untalented. I hope to God that Frericks is more like Heinrich than any incoming player is like Deiner. Heinrich was the best post defender I've ever seen in a Billiken uniform (Sorry Kenny) If Frericks can play Heinrich style D, He'll be a success in my opinion. If he can shoot as well, terrific! We'll need the D next year immediately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 Given a choice, I'd rather have a big with limited athletic ability, as opposed to a wing player with limited athletic ability. I don't see where Kenny Brown was much better than Chris Heinrich. CH had a better shooting touch and made himself into an outstanding post defender. Kenny was quicker, but Heinrich was bigger and stronger. Romar used to gush about that aspect of his game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NashvilleBilliken Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 I feel the same way. I liked Kenny, but I don't think he was all that much better than Heinrich. Chris was much bigger than KB, which is huge when your talking about post players. I have stood next to each of them and there was a very noticable difference in the two. I also remember Chris' defense being very good. I do not know if it was as good as KB's, but it was close. Chris had a good touch on his free throws and inside shooting. Now, on the other hand, i don't think i've ever seen a seven footer miss so many dunks and layups. I remember every now and then Chris would go for the reverse dunk in the post. I only saw him make one of em, but Kenny never tried anything like that. I do not see how he much THAT much more athletic than Heinrich.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobo Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 I thought Chris played with a lot of determination and desire and was a force on defense. His offensive skills were less than desirable as he seemed to alwyas put the ball on the floor. However, he was a good shooter from the line. I think he would have benefited from specizalized "big man coaching." He was also a good student. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 heinrich was not a better defender than kenny brown. he was a good defender, but he never shut down the likes of marvin stone, jason maxiell, chris massie or robert jackson night after night like kenny did last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 heinrich had a shooting touch? you guys are now letting time be kind to your memories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 nashville billiken said, "I do not see how he(kenny brown) much THAT much more athletic than Heinrich. yeah i remember hienrich getting out on the break and finishing with slams on the other end so many times in his career. geez, heinrich was a rock in the middle. i will give you all that. a space eater deluxe that held his postion. but it ends there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 I have to agree with Roy on this one It seems to me that KB was a better defender than CH. KB shut people down ...I don't recall CH doing that. Yes, he was big and solid, but that is it. I also don't remember him having much offensive skill in any capacity, I do remember he ..like KB walke a lot for a big man inside ..ie bad footwork. I am going to keep an open mind on our new big men. I did not hear Brad rave on about any of our recruits last year and considering when he started I think he did an outstanding job .. Let's hope the new bigs are a step up in skill over our past bigs. I really like what I hear on Kevin Lisch. He sounds like the type player we need ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 Heinrich had Tatum and Baniak to a lesser extent to help him out once in a while. Especially for you Roy, who nearly alone, holds Romar in high esteem. Didn't he call Heinrich the best post defender in CUSA? I agreed with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 again rich, i am not saying heinrich was not a good defender. he was very good. rarely out of position, extremely strong and able to hold his ground. but overall, he was not as good as kenny brown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Roy, I never said Heinrich had "a shooting touch", I simply said he had "a better shooting touch" than KBrown. That's not saying much, but do you disagree? Heinrich made himself into a respectable free throw shooter for a big man. As for KBrown, I don't recall him shutting Robert Jakson down. If anything, the game at Savvis, Jackson gave Brown fits with his superior quickness. I remember Romar repeatedly praising Heinrich for his post defense. I admire the effort Brown gave, but let's not turn him into Bill Russell. If we have difficulty replacing a player like him, this program is in trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 ace, i agree that chris heinrich was a better free throw shooter than kenny brown, but that is about where that ended. your point about replacing kenny brown shouldnt be that difficult is well taken, and it is exactly my point as to why i am not as optimistic as some when considering where we will be next season. i have not heard or read anything from any source that tells me that the greek, husak or fericks will be an improvement NEXT YEAR over kenny brown. i have heard that the greek and husak have great potential, but in the next breath we usually hear how one or the other or maybe both may need to be red-shirted to give them a chance to catch up. that doesnt sound like players that will be an improvement over kenny brown. from what i have heard of fericks, he is a huge man. might be 270+ pounds thus the chance of him being quicker and a better defender are almost nothing. i do expect fericks to be a better shooter, but what does that mean? kenny brown was at best a dunker on offense and that was it. so again what i expect from fericks is approxiamately chris heinrich. this whole thread is about next year's expectations. my point is that we will not fully replace probably our two most valuable players in marque and kenny brown. if that is the case, how does the team improve on last year's record? sure we will replace the contributions of chris braun and drew diener, but those contributions are not much to replace. will the sum of the new folks exceed marque, kenny, chris braun and drew diener? i have doubts, but i am willing to wait till the early days of december to see what we got. i think our entire fortune for next season ride in the hands of i/o's improvement and reggie bryant. i for one do not feel secure enough in that to predict the ncaa tourney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billikan Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Warrick will be one of the finest players in the country next year now that Anthony left for the big show. He is an incredible athlete and a feirce competitor. It is absolutely ridiculous to set him up as the standard of play for our new big men. They can be damn fine players who contribute and grow and mature and yet never be the player that Warrick will be this year. I disagree strongly with the comparison with Heinrich. No one ever said he was "skilled" in anything when he was recruited. He was big and rawboned and he put on enough muscle to be a real force in the middle on the defensive end if he could stay out of foul trouble. He could not make a layup for 3 years. I have not seen the new guys but everything we have heard from all sources says that they have some skills and footwork. Heinrich was an utter disaster until his senior year. I would be shocked if at least one or two of these young men do not contribute this year and by next year, after they have become acclimated to the system and the tougher competition I would be shocked if they aren't all better offensive players than Heinrich ever was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 show me a source that tells us that any of the three incoming bigs will produce more than what chris heinrich did. as recent as yesterday i was told by very good sources that fericks will be a better offensive player than kenny brown but no where near kenny defensively or rebounding wise. and i was again told about the POTENTIAL of husak and the greek. to me, that sounds like we have basically got the equal of 3 chris heinrichs for next year. therefore i do not think our inside play will be stronger than last year. that is not to say that the greek and husak wont turn into chris kaman in 2-3 years. but still, all the more reason to wait until december to see what we got before assuming we will be better than last year. i remain skeptical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 revisionist history and character assassination. I'll stand by my assertion that Chris was the best post defender I've ever seen in a Billiken Jersey. You could make a case for Kenny Brown in that regard too. If Frericks can acheive that distinction in his days as a Billiken I'll be DAMNED happy. DOES ANYONE REMEMBER WHEN DONNIE DOBBS WAS OUR FREAKING 6'2" CENTER???? Jamal Johnson was taller but not exactly Shaq. In my memory, Billiken big men have been few and far between and Heinrich was one of the best. Baniak was a disaster. Heinrich was a load! Hopefully Frericks has a nicer touch than Heinrich but this year we could really use a couple Heinrichs. Is IO going to defend down low? I think not. JJ? Nah. It damn well better be Frericks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 the only thing that scares me about fericks is the word that he could be upwards of 280lbs. now that is some size no doubt. but considering he wasnt recruited by much of anyone else, i can also assume it isnt quick twitch muscle either. a plodder in the making is my fear. thus my continued comparison to chris. i want a thoroughbred not a clydesdale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 It's good enough for me. Have you ever seem a clydsdale hit full speed? That is my idea of a center! Ever seen one jump a three foot high fence? Scary! I hope Frericks is a freaking Clydsdale! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schasz Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 I think that you and I will agree that the NCAA may be a major stretch for next year. I was thinking that our next NCAA appearance will be in the 04-05 season. However, I'm not willing to categorize any of our bigs until we get a look at them in both practice or game conditions. In the long run, if none of them are better than K. Brown then I'm taking all bets off on my NCAA prediction. While I did like Brown's defense, I go with the notion that he was offense was offensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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