bauman Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 From what I've read on this Board it seems like the impression I have of our new recruit is a new Monroe Douglas-about the same size, with great athletic ability, a slasher-type scorer without a great outside shot. Can any of you who have seen both players confirm or correct me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 Monroe was more explosive than Tommie. Tommie is a better ball handler, passer and defender. Last year I considered the closest comparison to be Leonard Stokes but he's improved his ballhandling enough that I feel confident comparing him to former Temple star Aaron McKie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Majerus Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 I've seen Monroe - he didn't have the great shot. He got up plenty high so nobody could block it, but he didn't have the great stroke. Roland Gray, who started as a great inside player developed a better jumper and became a 3 pt threat. I don't mind if a player doesn't have a great shot - just don't waste the trip down the court by taking it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 imo, monroe sr never came close to the dribbling and passing ability that tommie possesses. while tommy is a leaper as well, my memory of some of the alley oops that monroe converted tells me that douglas might have been an even better jumper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 3 star, i thought stokes was a pretty good shooter. i dont think tommie has that good of a stroke yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 while winning 3 point contests is probably not in tommie's future, he isnt an atrocious shooter either. i have seen a lot worse in the billiken lineup over history. i am betting tommie will be a good shooter someday. for now i am down with saying it isnt his strength. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mobile-iken Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 Stokes, a good shooter? Are you sure you are talking about Leonard Stokes from Cincinnati last year? I remember his shot being pretty lousy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 Sounds like Tommy might create his own shot better than Monroe, correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 randy pulley was/is lousy. stokes shot 42% from the field last year which isnt bad. i guess i do need to come off of pretty good and maybe label that as average. it seemed he always shot pretty well though against the billikens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mobile-iken Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 I think his best shooting game of the year was his game at Savvis last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 stokes was 17-34 from the field against the billikens last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 i would agree with that. imo tommie is somewhere between douglas and hughes. and probably leans towards hughes skills more than douglas. jalensdad compared him to jalen rose, which i can somewhat see. however i always thought rose played somewhat stiff and mechanical, where hughes was smooth. from that standpoint that is why i say closer to larry. dont get me wrong, i dont think he is hughes. but he is more of an overall talent than douglas was. i do agree with the earlier statement that douglas might have been more explosive. monroe could go get that high pass. maybe only jeffers compares to douglas in that regard imo when thinking of recent billiken players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jalensdad2002 Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 I'm a bit curious as to what you guys consider a good shooter is. These are Liddell's numbers from the 2002-2003 season 50.4-overall fg% 54.6%-2pt fg% Although he only shot 28.5% from 3 point range, those numbers are not truly accurrate in the sense that he started the season shooting only 22.2% in the Flyers first 10 games. The next 10 games would see Liddell's team go on a 10 game winning streak with Tommie averaging 19.7ppg on 56.1% fgs, 9.3rpg(3.2 offensive), 3.4spg, 3.3apg, 1.1bpg, and only 1.1tpg. During the 10 game winning streak Tommie would shoot 45.4% from 3-point range and 75% from the charity strike. In the IHSA postseason Tommie Liddell's numbers jump to 22.5ppg on 64.2% fgs, 9rpg(4 offensive),4spg, 4apg, and 5 blocks per game. Incidentally Tommie did not have a single turnover in the postseason despite being the primary ballhandler for East Side. I would dare say that Liddell is on par with any player in the state of Illinois to include Shaun Livingston. He would be Top 50 if not for the fact that he scheduled his summer class around the NBA Players Association Camp as opposed to the Nike Camp were player rankings are determined. He chose the NBA Players camp over Nike because he thought he would get more from the experience in the long run. Incidentally he roomed with Livingston at the camp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 I realize that Tommie really struggled with his earlier shot earlier in the season but the stats are the stats. For the season he shot 28% from three and the season before that he shot around 31% If I remember correctly. I hope Tommie will improve behind the arc but Larry and Marque proved you can do a lot of damage without a deadly three-point shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jalensdad2002 Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 >I realize that Tommie really struggled with his earlier shot >earlier in the season but the stats are the stats. For the >season he shot 28% from three and the season before that he >shot around 31% If I remember correctly. I hope Tommie will >improve behind the arc but Larry and Marque proved you can >do a lot of damage without a deadly three-point shot. Stats are Stats. 50% overall shooter, are you under the impression that all his fgs are from dunks or layups. Most teams that he faced played some type of gimmick defense on him so most of points came from mid-range jumpshots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 You'll get no argument from me. Tommie has a very good mid-range game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjray Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 As Tommie has not even commenced his senior season of hs ball, I don't think anyone expects there not to be room for improvement in some part of his game. A desire to improve, god-given talent, and a D-1 body are things a college coach cannot manufacture. We are all thrilled to have him and I think the generally concensus is that Tommie is undervalued by those who rate players. If memory serves me correctly, Erwin Clagget and Virgil Cobbin were not strong 3-point shooters their first year at SLU but both improved each season. Tommie brings more to the table than either of these two individuals. If he develops a 3 stroke, that would just be gravey. Larry Hughes was reputed to have an excellent outside shot by Spoonhour based upon what he saw in practice leading up to the preseason; however, he seriously sprained the wrist on his shooting hand at the very end of the first meaningless preseason game (remember the play vividly). His wrist was injured the entire season (he played with it taped) and his shot never recovered while he wore a Billiken uniform ... yet Larry carried us to the second round of the NCAA and was a lottery pick. Tommie might not be Larry Hughes but I suspect he will contribute more to the program over his Billiken career than Larry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Majerus Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 Claggs came with the shot...and might have improved it while he was here, but he was lights out when he came. When I saw him for the first time at the Billiken's midnight madness, I predicted he would be the top Billiken scorer of all time if he stayed 4 years. He would have been if he had had the NIT runs that Bonner/Gray/Douglas had, but his teams had no postseason the first 2 years and then got into the NCAA instead of the NIT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schasz Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 Jalensdad2002, Thanks very much for sharing Tommie's Jr. stats which are very impressive. I look forward reading some game reports from you here at my Palm Harbor, FL Palatial Palace. I am pumped that Tommie decided to become a Billiken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjray Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 >Claggs came with the shot...and might have improved it while >he was here, but he was lights out when he came. When I saw >him for the first time at the Billiken's midnight madness, I >predicted he would be the top Billiken scorer of all time if >he stayed 4 years. He would have been if he had had the NIT >runs that Bonner/Gray/Douglas had, but his teams had no >postseason the first 2 years and then got into the NCAA >instead of the NIT. Clagget's first year I did not catch too many games (out-of-town) but my memory of seeing him early was that he was tentative with his shot. Never saw him practice that year and a guy might lack confidence but still have a great shot. I'm sure you saw more of him than me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bauman Posted October 5, 2003 Author Share Posted October 5, 2003 For what it's worth I remember Claggs having a great shot his freshman year and it was made even better by the fact that he could shot off the run unlike most of the good shooters SLU has had who could only drill the "3" if standing still or squared up e.g. Scott H, Virgil C, Drew D etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 I was always amazed at Clagg's range ... even if the D was in his face ...he would just take a step back and let it fly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jalensdad2002 Posted October 5, 2003 Share Posted October 5, 2003 > > I was always amazed at Clagg's range ... even if the D was >in his face ...he would just take a step back and let it fly I would have to agree with that statement. A week prior to our high school game against Claggett he went off for 45 points against East Side. When we met them we were very happy to hold Claggett to 27 points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p diddy Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 i was at that game. clag was incredible that night. it was a double header. in the next game, cardinal ritter beat lincoln by one point. julian scored 37 points. bad boyz for life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jalensdad2002 Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 > > > i was at that game. clag was incredible that night. it was >a double header. in the next game, cardinal ritter beat >lincoln by one point. julian scored 37 points. > >bad boyz for life Yeah I didn't start that game thankfully, because I think their first 8-10 points came from highlight reel dunks. But we soon settled down and made a game of it. A side note that event was a precursor to the annual Martin Luther King Classic at Savvis. We were initially scheduled to play Chicago King but they could not make it. They had 2 7-footers who made it to the NBA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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