former_d1 Posted October 12, 2003 Share Posted October 12, 2003 I would ask that everyone be civil to the valley posters that are coming on our board. Several of us (slu posters) post on their board alot. They are always civil and never tell us to go away like I have read on some replies here If any of you guys would like to join in on the talk valleytalk.com. The most poplar trends are how slu would be middle of the pack in the valley and they would not take us back. All this while secretly wishing we would come back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schasz Posted October 12, 2003 Share Posted October 12, 2003 I'd agree with that sentiment, and even go so far as to say that I would not limit it to MVC fans. I don't mind in the least seeing fans of opposing schools on this website and that includes fans of our rival to the West. Actually, I enjoy reading many of their posts as they give a different perspective. Plus it is always fun to see needle them back after they take jabs at our program...all part of being a fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SluSignGuy Posted October 12, 2003 Share Posted October 12, 2003 I agree, I read the thread over there in which I assume that you were referring to, and they were civil when we were civil. It was a good debate, but I just think they put too much emphasis on history of program, compared to recent history alot. The only three teams that I see that are comparible to SLU in recent history are Creighton and SIU, and maybe SMS. W. State is on the rise according to their fans, so we have to see what happens with them (since we are saying that we are on the rise with Brad). But one fact that hasn't been presented is that the MVC has has 2 years in a row of when they lost more non-conf games than they won. The A-10 has never had that in the past 5 (as far as I checked) years. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted October 12, 2003 Share Posted October 12, 2003 I don't understand why someone would want to come on the fan board of another team and argue with and put down their team ... with most posters that are not Bills fans that is what they do. I also don't understand why our fans would want to go to a valley board and argue that we are too good to be there. Just let them spout meaningless crap on their own ... SLU isn't going to the Valley so who cares what they think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
former_d1 Posted October 12, 2003 Author Share Posted October 12, 2003 Skip, I and others follow the valley and we post on their board. I defend slu when we are brought up. They are civil and I am just asking that we be civil. The hottest trends on the valley board are about slu and most trends tend to get around to slu. On our board its recruiting and in the past mu. The valley fans are good people and just defending the valley. It makes for good topics. I have not read anything on our board that is on par with the mizzou fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UE_BBALL Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 >But one fact that hasn't been presented is that the MVC has >has 2 years in a row of when they lost more non-conf games >than they won. The A-10 has never had that in the past 5 >(as far as I checked) years. You're right, the MVC has done poorly in the last couple years in the non coference, but all of the MVC schools are supposed to have a non-con schedule that ranks in the top 150 in the nation. You don't see that in the A-10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 top 150 schedules in the country? what exactly are you trying to say? if you think the mvc has a better schedule of college basketball than the a-10 you are crazy. let's say that you are correct. then why in the world is the mvc a far worst rated conference every year for the last 5 years according to the rpi ratings? the mvc sucks. please tell us you have more proof than sms women's volleyball or the sms men's basketball team beat the billikens last year. there is no way you have convinced anyone of anything. when sms has a top 30 schedule year in and year out and when the mvc is higher ranked than c-usa or the a-10 and when sms gets ranked in the top 100, come back and talk to us. otherwise you actually seem a little foolish if you ask me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UE_BBALL Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 You avoid the fact that SMS has dominated SLU in the last 15 years. Don't tell me CUSA is better than the MVC, I already know that. Don't tell me the A10 is better than the MVC, I already know that. All I want to know is what SLU has done that is so great that they should be in a top conference like you guys say? So far, all I've gotten is get the hell out of here and why are you here stuff? Do you guys have any type of facts to hold up your opinions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basketbill Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 It is not what you have done in the past but rather what could you do in the future.......but to play your game SLU has made the NCAA in 200o, 1998, and twice with spoon. Won the CUSA conference tornament in 2000. Have yearly been in and around the top 30 in attandance, their school is in a top media market, which the MVC thinks is so nice they host their tournament. Despite a few down years , SLU has been competitive in CUSA, a conference you yourself acknowledge is a good conference. The A10 is obviously attracted by SLU's situation, and may invite SLU to play at their house. It is an invitation they should accept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UE_BBALL Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 I agree, SLU has been competitive. But what somewhat bothers me is the people who believe that if SLU were forced into the MVC they would easily be a top team every year. Now that the Big East is scrambling after BC left, where does SLU go if the BE takes Xavier and/or Dayton? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basketbill Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 Xavier and Dayton do not play football, the BE will look to ECU or USF or Central florida. The real question however is what happens to the BE voting, BBall schools now have one extra vote. Perhaps the now split, if they can manage to dissolve the conference then all the schools leave with their own money.....stay tuned..... I do not think that SLU would be the top team in the Valley every year in fact over the long run, I think it would hurt, and here is why. SLU is a private school and has some standard that are higher than many schools in the conference (MVC) this particularly would be seen in the Juco recruiting, but also in freshamn recruiting. Therfore SLU would be at a disadvantage to some schools, in recruiting, Moreover what I have always thought is that SLU needs to recruit solid students who are basketball players, but obviously these players are going to be recruited by Marquette, Depaul, Temple Standford etc.....in the MVC SLU would not look too good compared to these other schools, in the A10 though I think they look comparable with the exception of Stanford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetorch Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 We would easily be a top team for a few years. Like now even with all of our new players, if SLU were in the valley we would be picked to win it this year. By playing in a mid major conference though over a couple of years our recruiting abilities would be hindered extensively where we would be a top team in the valley ie finish in the top 4 8 of 10 years, but that is not that great. SMS has beaten us alot over the past few years, but that doesn't mean they have a better program, or that just for that reason we should resign SLU to playing in the valley just cuz we can't beat a valley school in non con consistently. That makes no sense, if SMS were in our shoes they would jump at the chance of going to the A-10 over playing in the valley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SluSignGuy Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 I would just like to ask, if SLU is so undeserving of being in the A-10, and you say that SLU wouldn't necessarily dominate the MVC, why wasn't any team from the MVC invited by the A-10? A lot of it is recent history. Would Marquette be so attractive to the Big East if they did not have the Final Four run? No... Would SLU be as attractive to the A-10 if they were coming off a season like SMS had? No... If SLU had a better season last year, maybe they would be heading to the Big East, but SLU had a good enough season for the A-10 to have interest. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 They will take a football school maybe USF ... who has a football program on the upswing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 first off, the big east football schools will not allow the big east to take dayton and xavier. if they did, they would forever be in the minority to the basketball schools. they will take another football school like south florida to insure they continue to have at least half of the voting population. as to your previous post, you said that sms has "dominated" st louis u. the record since 1990 between slu and sms is 4-8 and no single sms victory was decided by more than 12 points. (fyi, the biggest blowout was a billiken victory in 1994 where the billikens won by 33 points.) while the last 10 seasons has been an advantage for sms, i am not sure it is dominating. 1-11, or 0-12 with 20 or 30 point point spreads would be dominating. second, if you used this head to head performance theory, then i guess the likes of louisville, who slu has beaten fairly regularly the last number of years, doesnt belong in the big east before st louis. maybe we should look at this as sms has beaten slu regularly, and st louis has beaten louisville, so let's put sms in the big east and louisville should be sent to the mvc. the point is you have to look at the big picture more than one head to head series. while st louis has beaten louisville regularly, i am not naive enough to think we deserve to be placed in a conference ahead of louisville. the facts are that overall louisville has performed at a higher level than st louis. just as overall st louis has consistently performed at a higher level than sms over the last 10 years. of course you havent even looked at the other issues of conference placement in the decision of slu to the a-10 rather than the mvc. slu has nothing in common with the mvc schools (creighton being the exception, who imo shouldnt be in the mvc either) other than proximity. the two biggest traits to consider imo, are the mvc is primarily public schools and most mvc schools also have football. the a-10 is made up of similar philosphical institutions and most do NOT have football. last issue to address is your statement saying we (i guess posters at billikens.com) are saying that the billikens would win the mvc every year. personally i dont think that is a statement billiken fans have been making. in fact, i think the actual fear is that the billikens fans fear they will consistently finish in the upper 1/3 of the conference year after year and because of the overall weakness of the mvc still be shut out of postseason. now in conference usa or the a-10 that is typically good enough to at least be fighting for postseason play. however in the mvc that is not always the case. in fact, other than the the tourney winner, the next team in the mvc is typically holding their breath on selection sunday. you cannot deny that normally the mvc sends only one or two teams to the tourney. whereas a top 4 finish in the a-10 will send the team to post season. my biggest issue with the mvc is the weakness of the teams in the lower 2/3 of the mvc. no matter how you look at it, it has destroyed the credibility of the conference. in the last 5 years, the conference overall ranking has steadily dropped each year from a one time high of 7th overall when the conference sent 3 teams to the ncaa tourney to last season being ranked 14th. and that 14th overall ranking was in a season where creighton and siu were together very highly regarded. again, i dont think many people here believe slu would annually win the conference. it is rare that any team annually wins any conference. but if you think that st louis wont compete in whatever conference they end up in, you are mistaken. the billikens have now proven they will compete wherever they get sent. if that hurts your feelings, sorry. but thanks for coming in here and smacking the team around. i am sure our billikens that read this have now placed a little mental note in the back of their brains that sms thinks they "dominate" the billikens. maybe i need to drive down to springfield on the 20th of december to watch this "domination". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLUNATE Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 I think the point is...we don't really need to trash the valley to make us feel better out our alma matter and it's prospects, so why do it? Aside from that...if you are a Saint Louisan, you should be pulling for the valley to succeed....the higher profile it achieves, the better the tournament we get to host every year becomes. It's not a HUGE tourism boom, but every bit helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schasz Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 You mean to tell me that those folks from N. Iowa and Wichita aren't already clamoring for hotel rooms in downtown St. Louis for next year's big MVC tourney??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xu95 Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 >>But one fact that hasn't been presented is that the MVC has >>has 2 years in a row of when they lost more non-conf games >>than they won. The A-10 has never had that in the past 5 >>(as far as I checked) years. > > >You're right, the MVC has done poorly in the last couple >years in the non coference, but all of the MVC schools are >supposed to have a non-con schedule that ranks in the top >150 in the nation. You don't see that in the A-10. You are wrong. The A-10 has a SOS clause set up that if the schools don't play a certain rank of strength of schedule than they lose money. Why do you think teams like Fordham and Duquesne play a lot of road games in non conference? It is because they can't get anyone good in there and they need to play these teams to make money. xu95 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xu95 Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 According to most preseason rags, the A-10 is predicted to send 4 teams to the NCAA tournament and another 3 to the NIT. That is 7 teams in a twelve team conference. When you compare that to the MVC there really isn't any comparison. xu95 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 ...at least all of the Missouri Valley teams will be playing on Bracket Buster Saturday! Too bad some of them will be playing in a television vacuum. The only reason I can think of that the fans of this conference of minor "state" and directional schools covet SLU's membership and respect is that "misery loves company." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xu95 Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 >...at least all of the Missouri Valley teams will be playing >on Bracket Buster Saturday! Too bad some of them will be >playing in a television vacuum. > >The only reason I can think of that the fans of this >conference of minor "state" and directional schools covet >SLU's membership and respect is that "misery loves company." And this is a good thing? Bracket Buster Saturday is set up for MID MAJOR conferences. The A-10 is not considered a mid major conference. It would be an insult to a lot of A-10 teams if they had to play in the Bracket Buster. xu95 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cujaysfan Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 now this post is just arrogant - i think i am a known commodity as a poster over here - and this is the kind of stuff that upsets mvc fans. lets be honest as SLU fans - this team is a very big question mark. the post is a big question with the loss of KB. and without marquee - we are all wondering where the offense is going to come from. while we are optomistic - and think this team is more athletic and has a lot of promise - nothing means squat til the balls are rolled out. In the same vein - Brad looks like he will be a very solid basketball coach - but he is still something of an unproven commodity. his future looks very bright to me - but that has to be proven on the floor over time. WSU will be a very very good team this year - creighton has shown an ability to reload and not rebuild under altman and while there are some questions with the loss of korver and some of the other seniors - creighton's questions are not near what the bills are. SMS is very talented - and although i dont think much of their coach - is a team that once again - i will not be surprised if and when they beat SLU. Bradley has several players that Major programs would kill for. Please think before you post - or you just show yourself to have a very low hoops IQ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 I apologize. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheA_Bomb Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 Bradley with Sommerville and ISU with Moser Coaching Echols and Plank should be good. CU will do well, SMS has an inconsistent coach and SIU is a wildcard. Overall the Valley should be better this year. I just don't respond well to these types of posters. It seems that others don't either. The overlying point is that we don't want to go to the valley and Valley fans that claim they don't want SLU while bashing our other choices are just sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 >now this post is just arrogant - i think i am a known >commodity as a poster over here - and this is the kind of >stuff that upsets mvc fans. Arrogant? >>>We would easily be a top team for a few years. Like now even with all of our new players, if SLU were in the valley we would be picked to win it this year. By playing in a mid major conference though over a couple of years our recruiting abilities would be hindered extensively where we would be a top team in the valley ie finish in the top 4 8 of 10 years, but that is not that great. SMS has beaten us alot over the past few years, but that doesn't mean they have a better program, or that just for that reason we should resign SLU to playing in the valley just cuz we can't beat a valley school in non con consistently. That makes no sense, if SMS were in our shoes they would jump at the chance of going to the A-10 over playing in the valley. Please tell me what was arrogant in that. I understand that Valley fans feel slighted, but the fact is, the Valley is mid-major and SLU doesn't want to regress. I have no hatred for the Valley and like to see the giants of college basketball (Kentucky, North Carolina, Duke, Florida, etc) get knocked off their high horse by a Valley team every once in a while, but I want SLU to be closer to being a giant than an occasional upstart giant killer. >lets be honest as SLU fans - this team is a very big >question mark. the post is a big question with the loss of >KB. and without marquee - we are all wondering where the >offense is going to come from. while we are optomistic - >and think this team is more athletic and has a lot of >promise - nothing means squat til the balls are rolled out. If SLU is such a big question mark, why are preseason publications touting SLU for postseason (albeit NIT) this year? Furthermore, you have a shortsighted view. Conference affilation has more to do with educational philosphy, fiscal commitment to athletics, and size of fan base/media market than with the winning percentage of one year or another. >In the same vein - Brad looks like he will be a very solid >basketball coach - but he is still something of an unproven >commodity. his future looks very bright to me - but that >has to be proven on the floor over time. No doubt. But, as Brad Soderberg went DOWN into the Valley to pluck one of his assistant coaches (Anthony Beane from Illinois St.) because he wanted guys who would consider SLU a step up from where they were, he'll prove his mettle in a top conference, not the MVC. > >WSU will be a very very good team this year - creighton has >shown an ability to reload and not rebuild under altman and >while there are some questions with the loss of korver and >some of the other seniors - creighton's questions are not >near what the bills are. SMS is very talented - and >although i dont think much of their coach - is a team that >once again - i will not be surprised if and when they beat >SLU. Bradley has several players that Major programs would >kill for. Creighton is "reloading"? Reloading what? You consider Creighton to be reloading? There's a big difference between reloading a BB gun and reloading high-powered automatic assault rifle. Creighton is a BB gun; Arizona is an assault rifle! (Note this is not to say that SLU is great or is reloading -- or even rebuilding; SLU is building.) I expect SMS to win its home game against SLU, with all of its newcomers this year, but it would not surprise me if the Bills win. And SMS certainly won't blow the Bills out of Hammonds. I believe when it's all said and done, Blake Ahearn will be no better than 1-3 against SLU, and Dwayne Polk, Luke Meyer, and Tommie Liddell will be no less than 3-1 against SMS. Who does Bradley have that Illinois or Marquette would kill for? Sommerville is probably the only one. Even if there's one or two more, that's a few, not "several." >Please think before you post - or you just show yourself to >have a very low hoops IQ. I reiterate that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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