Style of play matters

[3star_recruit]

http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sportsstory.asp?id=168604

Washington guard Justin Dentmon always considered Bruce Weber a good guy, but he never would have played for him.

Not at Southern Illinois. Not at Illinois.

“When he was at Southern Illinois, I didn’t like his style of play,†said Dentmon, a Carbondale native who was friends with Weber’s oldest daughter, Hannah, when Weber coached the Salukis. “It was like half-court offense. I didn’t like that. I like up and down.â€

When asked if he had the opportunity to follow Weber to the more prestigious program in Champaign, Dentmon’s opinion remained the same.

........

If the Justin Dentmons of the world don't want to play for a successful halfcourt program, there is no way they want to play for a developing one like SLU. I believe the future success of the SLU program hinges on signing the best halfcourt players we can, particularly shooters and back to the basket players. Fans of great athletic feats won't like this but those type of players are rarely great athletes. But I'd rather we start winning now and worry about how to change our image later.

[slufanskip]

Dentman is 1 guy ... Jamar Smith didn't mind playing for Weber. I don't think having the best athletes always translates to winning basketball. I say we concentrate on getting the best basketball players ... some who will be very athletic and some who will be of average athletic ability but good solid fundamental basketball players

Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman

[pompeytir]

West Virginia is winning with the right coach and the right players. He took his recruits from Richmond and got them into the Big East...results were the same-winning program.

You have to run what your comfortable with but be willing to adjust and change when it doesn't work.

[billiken_roy]

skip, jamar smith is exactly the guy that 3 star is talking about. after stiffing illinois state, dentmon had his choice of just about any program in the country. smith was way under the radar and even weber didnt have him as his first pick. he only offered smith after lisch verballed to slu.

smith is a fine shooter. the sky is the limit for him as a 3 point assasin. however he isnt even close to what lisch or dentmon are overall. dentmon drove on him at will last night.

[3star_recruit]

I agree. I'm hoping that Lucas O'Rear and Josh Edmonds (Peoria Notre Dame) are part of our 2007 class. O'Rear would fit the need for a skilled back to the basket player and Edmonds is a big guard who can shoot it and rebound. He got 15 rebounds in Notre Dame's upset win against Vashon. They both play on the same AAU team, the Midwest Storm, so I'm sure the staff is aware of Edmonds.

[kevinfootes]

You won't land every recruit. Some kids want to go away or whatever. What I find interesting is that Romar is perceived as something besides a "half-court offense" coach. He didn't show that when he was here.

[GOSLU68]

coaches have to play what is available; a year ago

IO did not really emerge as the go to guy until Soderberg realized the only true mismatch the opposition had to contend with was IO; someone like Grawer would not have picked that up; he used to bench Kevin Footes for dribbling AND TAKING THE GAME AWAY FROM "THE PLAN"

[courtside]

Interesting....no, you won't land every recruit....AND you have to build something for a long time to land most backyard recruits too.

I do think there is something to be said for style of play to some extent. Obviously playing behind Dee Brown would have been an issue for him too.

I think the biggest factor is relationship with the coach in recruiting. Other factors are schools close to home(Il kid playing at IL)...or being able to play at national elite power...UNC, AZ, etc..

Style of play and recruiting were always going to be my issues with BS coming in....because his sysem even has a reputation for a slower game. Other people will hammer that in recruiting. And, it will lose some kids to other places.

There are plenty of other kids out there though. Is it a tougher challenege to recruit, yes.

[billiken_roy]

because romar couldnt get the players to utilize that approach. he had to maximize what he could with the players he had.

[cheeseman]

This an interesting thread - During the NCAA, we have seen many of the supposed high octane offensives playing an awful lot of stand at the perimeter and pass it around to each other until the shot clock runs down. Nobody is hammering these coaches for using a boring style. Winning changes lots of perceptions and having the right type of athlete will also change what others think. I am not so sure that Brad's perceived style is the issue - I am not sure what his style is to be truthful, sometimes they run helter skelter - second half against Dayton at home, or against UNC or GW this year. Other times, they look like plodders - Richmond and St. Joes. Kellog today said that the tourney is more about match ups than confs. - I think he is right! SLU is not good enough yet to dictate the type of game they want to play all the time so they end up playing something that the other team wants to play at times. If we can get a good rebounder - one who rebounds on both ends - I think Brad's offense can be a more higher speed.

[courtside]

Teams that win with consistency, are teams that can win when games are in the 90's, 70's 50's, a variety of ways.

Matchups are obviously everything in the NCAA's as opposed to seeds.

Soderberg comes from a slow prodding system...and he hasn't exactly shaken that stigma at this point.

If he wins, it won't/doesn't matter. It does matter in a few aspects...fans will come if you win, ...they will come more and quicker if it is at least attractive ball. Same with analysts....they will come quicker so to speak as well. ...coaches will use it against him in recruiting....etc...

But if he wins he can overcome some of those obstacles.

[Big Al 1]

Saw on one of the Illinois H.S. sites that O'Rear will probably go to Northern Iowa...First time I heard of this...Maybe just a bad rumor.

[Sheltiedave]

Guys, Wisky had a system that could score in the 50s, or the 90s. The only difference was if they had a fast point guard AND a dominant outside shooter. They always had the defense and the shutdown rebounding.

As far as the perception that Weber coaches a plodding halfcourt system, the Washington game showed that Illinois also had a dominant transition offense, one that was driven by outstanding defense. A fast transition offense requires great defense, solid rebounding, and guards who can shoot when the primary and secondary breaks are shut down.

To say Brad does not coach a fast paced transition game is to also ignore the facts that preclude such a style.

We are not a shutdown defensive rebounding team. We have no power forward.

We do not have an outstanding man to man defensive team, because we do not have a power forward. We play the pack defense to compensate, and are outstanding in playing this variant.

Our fastest point guard is our worst shooter amongst guards, and played his way out of the starting lineup.

Brad actually coached Wisky's transition attack for three years, and they had a dominant break when they could run it. His key for setting it up at Saint Louis is recruiting the players that can run it. Dentman eliminating Illinois from his "scene" is funny if you have even casually watched them on the court for the past three years. They fly when given the chance.

[Billinikens]

You have to look at the point in time that he is saying this also. Do we really expect that the day he beats Illinois he is going to say, "well, it was a great win for us today, but I really wish I would have been playing for Coach Weber?" Not very likely. I wonder what he would have said about playing for Illinois last year when Illinois was in the title game and he was in prep school. I bet it's a different song.

The article also references him having to play behind Dee Brown and how he "didn't want to play behind nobody". The grammar of that statement is as big a reason he didn't end up playing for Illinois as anything else. Getting into Washington isn't quite the same accomplishment as getting into Illinois, academically.

[3star_recruit]

Coincidentally Greg McDermott made some comments about recruiting to a style and recruiting locally in an online chat just over a month ago.

http://transcripts.usatoday.com/Chats/transcript.aspx?c=583

Iowa: As you look back at where this program was when you took it over, to where it is now, is there one thing you can definintely point to as the reason for the turnaround?

Greg McDermott: Recruiting is always the key to succesful programs. We've been fortunate to attract young men that fit our style of play.

---

Iowa: As I look at your roster, I notice a lot of Iowa kids, three of them being starters. Next years recruiting class has two more Iowans coming in. Is Iowa High School Basketball better than what people think??

Greg McDermott: In my opinion, there have always been quality players in the state of Iowa. The high school coaching is excellent. The young people that we have in our program have joined us with a sound fundamental base, which helps them be ready to play at a young age. Our recruiting focus will always start with the state of Iowa.

---

Waverly, Iowa: How have you managed to put together the team you have, recruiting against higher profile instate teams Iowa and Iowa State?

Greg McDermott: Several of the players on our team were "under the radar" from a recruiting standpoint. They were a unique fit for our system, which may explain why they weren't as heavily recruited.

---

Cedar Falls, IA: Coach, Grant Stout has really turned into a special frontcourt player. Can you talk a little about his development from a small-school kid (New Sharon) to a multi-dimensional force. Thanks. Brian

Greg McDermott: Grant was a talented player when he came to us out of high school. It didn't matter that he played at a small high school. He's worked hard to develop his body and skills, in order to be a force in the MVC. Grant's consistency should get him strong consideration for all-conference honors.

[kevinfootes]

it wasn't just footes. Monroe Douglass played with handcuffs most of the time, afraid that he'd get benched for trying to make a play.

[kevinfootes]

style does matter for a few programs. Princeton wasn't going to change their style. Guys like Nolan Richardson and Guy Lewis weren't going to change their styles either.

Mostly, though, coaches try to adapt to the talent around them. That's why I think Romar had mixed results here. He kept trying to get west coast kids or other juco types and came in second most of the time. I think he was trying to caoch a style that wasn't most comfortable to him. It's what he had to do, it just neve quite clicked.

[slufanskip]

but BS doesn't coach a slow down style ... the players play it because they are hesitant and not confident with their skills. If you have listened to Brad or watched many practices, you would know Brad encourages them to push the ball and attack the basket. The only thing he doesnt want them to do is take stupid shots that they won't make. We don't run because we don't have the players to rebound and players that can finish at the rim.

How many times was DP down the floor with only 1 guy to beat and he pulls up. Not because he has to ... but because he doesn't finish very well. How many times does DB get to the hole and not finish. You rarely see Tommie pushing the ball, because he is back rebounding ... I agree it is Brad's fault we don't have the size to rebound the ball better and allow our guards to release ... but it isn't because he doesn't want to

Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman

[tseugnekillib]

Courtside....what was Soderberg's system in his pre-Bennett days at Wisconsin? Any idea what offensive he ran?

(He was at Loras College five years and at South Dakoya State for two years before becoming an assistant at Wisconsin.)

[ngcoach]

Soderberg played for Bennett in college. He has always been influenced by Bennett. In my opinion, Bennett is a good coach to be influenced by. But as a coach even though you patteren yourself after certain coaches, you always have your own philosophy and it has to be flexible.

[slu72]

If anyone gets SI read their poll of top conference players. Style to them means a lot. Many polled said they didn't like a plodding slow style as opposed to up tempo. I think right now we've got some players who would like to go upbeat...TL, KL, DB, DP...can do it. Also, in the NCAA preview edition of SI, a big article on who dictates their tempo wins the game. Dean Smith a long time ago, figured out the # of possessions is all important especially with the shot clock. I think UB did go upbeat in some games this year and the team responded well, UNC, Charlotte, UD (2nd game). Any upbeat teams SLU plays will try and get us into a speed up affair, figuring we can't score with them.