The case for recruiting Bobby Hill

[AJ]

Now that it appears that we are not going to land some of our high-profile recruits from outside the metro area for our 2006 class, perhaps its time to refocus locally. I know there has been a lot of chatter this summer-both pro and con-about Bobby Hill from Vashon. I've seen Hill play 4 times, three in person, once on TV. My evaluation of Hill is that he is a 6'5" raw athlete with good leaping ability, and speed. He is a very capable defender, can shot the 3 and finish well inside. The only areas for needed improvement appears to be ball-handling and open court decision-making. He could play either a guard or small forward. He reminds me a lot of Jeff Harris with an outside game. On the character/student side of the ledger, Hill scores high. My Vashon sources describe Hill as a super kid who works very hard in class and gets good grades. I do not know if he has qualified yet.

I like Hill, and I would rather see us take him over a 6'8"-7'0" project/role player. I also like Mike Smith from Vandalia but I've only see him play once. Approximately 6 weeks ago I heard from a very reliable source that Hill was on our radar screen but I've heard nothing since. I have heard nothing recent on Smith. I'd like to hear some thoughts from Nate L. and others.

[Orange Julius]

I think the Bills have been in the process of offering him for sometime now. Your assessment of Hill is right on in my opinion, but for all that Hill can give you I think Mike Smith is the better prospect. Mike Smith can do everything Hill can plus he can shoot the rock, and he is bigger and stronger than Hill.

[Nate Latsch]

I think Bobby Hill could be a nice pickup for the Billikens, though I'm not really sure where he fits in because he's kind of your classic tweener.

I'm not sure his skill set is developed enough yet for him to effectively play the wing in college but he's also not tall enough — is he 6-feet-6, 6-5 or even 6-4? — to convince me he'd be able to play as a power forward. If he was a couple inches taller, I'd have no doubts.

If what Brad Soderberg told Dustin Maguire was true, that the Billikens wouldn't recruit any guards in the high school class of 2006, then Hill might not be a good fit. I think Maguire is the kind of player the Bills have needed: someone who can hang around the perimeter and knock down shots.

But Hill's athleticism — which I've previously compared to Tommie Liddell's — could be an asset if SLU becomes the transition team many hope that is going to get out and push the ball down the floor behind Dwayne Polk (former Hill teammate at Vashon) and Liddell. Hill is a nice high school player, but he hasn't proven himself yet like Liddell, Polk and Kevin Lisch did before their senior years.

- Nate

[jjray]

>>He reminds me a lot of Jeff Harris with an outside game.<<

If Bobby Hill hit the weights and developed the physical strength and bulk of Jeff Harris, I'd be for it. SLU is pretty well set with wing players for several years to come so Bobby would have to be able to contribute at 4. What's Bobby weight right now, 180? Illinois got to the title game with a smaller, athletic 4. Would Bobby Hill commit to bulking up at SLU and be happy with that roll?

[p diddy]

bobby is being recruited hard by illinois state and bradley. word on the street is that he isn't that hot on slu right now because of the number of players they already have on the perimeter.

bad boyz for life

[tseugnekillib]

AJ, it is little early to discount our chances of signing a post-player or two from outside of the metro area since we really don't know all of the players on SLU's recruiting list. Patience. Patience.

imo, Jeff Harris and Bobby Hill have very little in common. Hill is very much the athletic leaper/slasher type and Jeff Harris was all about strength and effort in the paint.

[Taj79]

.... if we don't land Hill ... he was looking elswhere because he didn't like the stockpile at SLU in regards to the odds of his playing. There are various reasons why schools don't get who we think they should.

Now, if Maguire isn't the answer and Hill turns into an all-American wherever he lands, then you've got to question the decisions and the talent judges. Which may or may not be the answer. Again, its all a crap shoot at best at our level.

[DoctorB]

Hill would be an excellent pick-up. Great analysis, AJ. I hope the powers that be are tuned in to the AJ radar!

Related: we should recruit as many quality athletes/players that we can get, regardless of being a tweener, or whatever. That is what quality programs do. Imagine the competition at places like Duke and Kentucky. Yet every year they get bench guys to practice 2 years in hopes of playing as a junior or senior. Great prospects are clamoring to get an offer from Duke, or Kansas, or other programs. And those quality non-starters make for excellent practices and summer pick-up games. Iron sharpens iron. The better the competition, the more quickly do the players improve.

[billiken_roy]

jjray, you are kidding yourself if you compare bobby hill to powell even powell as an illini freshman.

[billiken_roy]

looking at the billiken roster and factoring in that maguire is a done deal, it is crazy to continue to focus on wings. we need inside depth badly. ask jill pizzotti how successful life is with a roster of all guards.

[billiken_roy]

just heard over the weekend that althoff high school besides losing daniel lisch will also lose extremely athletic jeremy felton. he is headed to belleville east today.

[3star_recruit]

We need a mix of players that can help compete in the top tier of the A-10. Stockpiling the roster with wing after wing after wing when our only legitimate inside presence is Ian isn't going to get it done against the likes of Charlotte, Xavier and Temple.

[Box and Won]

Hill sounds kind of like Danny Brown - would that be a fair assessment?

[3star_recruit]

Hill can jump but he isn't a quick player like DB is. Also DB is built like a wide receiver - Hill is long and lanky like Liddell. In high school Hill's most effective when he's running and catching alley-oop dunks over earthbound inside players. He can handle well for a 6'5 kid but isn't much of a slasher and doesn't really have a mid-range jumper. He's a pretty good rebounder. My parents went to Vashon so I'm rooting for Vashon kids to succeed academically beyond the high school level, but in a game of basketball I'd rather have 6'6 210 lb Mike Smith from Van-Far.

[billiken_roy]

i would guess that danny brown is at least 10 lbs heavier and imo is a better defender.

[billiken_roy]

i've only seen smith play at the shootout last winter, but from that game, i too believe he is the better all-around player between the two.

but as discussed above, we need inside players not wings.

[BleacherBum593]

I saw Smith also at last years shootout and was impressed.

Who's recruiting him the hardest at this point?

[jjray]

>jjray, you are kidding yourself if you compare bobby hill to

>powell even powell as an illini freshman.

Hey, I'm not making that comparison. All I said was that if Bobby Hill wanted to try and morph into Jeff Harris, great. Sounds like he'd rather play his natural position (wing) in the Valley.

[tseugnekillib]

When speaking of players like Bobby Hill and Mike Smith the real question is which players has the most upside potential? Tough call with these two because they are different types of players.

[AJ]

Thanks for the additional thoughts and information from others on the Board. I don't know that I strongly disagree with any of the points that have been raised by others but I do think strong arguments can be made on both sides of the debate regarding recruiting pure "athletes" vs. "bigs."

I agree with those who point out that if we recruit Hill we should try to develop him as a small forward and not allow him to take minutes away from McGuire, assuming that's the deal we made with McGuire. I do not view Hill as a Danny Brown type player, however. Brown lists at 6'4" but looks to me like he is really 6'2". Hill is a legit 6'5" with broad shoulders. I am only guessing but he looks to me like he weights 200-220. He has a stronger inside game than Brown.

To those of you who would not recruit at Hill or Smith because we have too many wings/guards the other side of that argument runs something like this: The shot clock and the 3 point shot have changed college hoops. You no longer need a 7 footer to be a top 50 team. To be competitive, "bigs" have to possess good leaping ability and speed, otherwise they can be a liability against smaller, quicker teams. We would all love a Sean May type player but so would 320 other Div. I teams. Unfortunately, every year there are probably only 50-75 true quality big men who have the athetic ability and speed to compete. On the other hand there are 300-400 quality players 6'6" and under. Teams like SIUC and Louisville have made a living with a whole roster of 6"4"-6'6" raw athletes. Our own experience should tell us something: our best team since 1957 was Spoon's 94-95 team that was a couple missed 3 pointers away from beating Wake Forest/Tim Duncan and making the sweet 16. Our tallest starter was 6'5" Scott Highmark (Robinson and Harris, our "inside players" were both 6'4")

Recruiting tends to be driven more by supply than demand and we have a good supply of "athletes" in the St. Louis area the next two years. I trust our coaching staff to pass on players like Hill and Smith if they feel it would upset team chemistry or violate committments made to other recruits. At the same time, I'd rather see us try to divide playing time between 5-7 athletic "tweeners" than recruit a couple of project/role players just because the are big.

[billiken_roy]

show me the louisville lineup that did not have two legit inside players on it.

and second, i contend had claggett/highmark/waldman had two legit inside players they would have been a top 15 team.

[AJ]

Roy, I respect your thoughts because I know you're a dedicated fan with a love for the game. I agree that if we had a high quality big man on the 94-95 team we would have been a much better team, possibly a top 5 team. Until we get to that status, however, we are not going to be successful in recruiting the Stipo, Sean May, J. White, or David Lee type players that could elevate us to the next level. Players like that want a shot at the Final 4. In the meantime, we need to worry about elevating ourselves to top 50 status before we get to top 15 or 5. How do we do that ? I certainly don't have all the answers, but I think we need to ask ourselves some tough questions like this: if we had successfully recruited D. Brooks from Jennings 5 years ago rather than gone for size, where would we be today ? I think you would agree we would have been in the NCAA Soderberg's first two years with Brooks. Maybe our coaches save all the rest of our scholarships this year and see what happens with Obi, etc. Next recruiting season we should have a better resume to make a serious push to get quality inside players like Powell and O'Rear.

[Major Majerus]

I seem to remember the great Denny Crum teams having athletes up and down the lineup without the dominating big man. I'm no encyclopedia, but someone on the board can find links to those rosters. Quickness, jumping ability, and a nose for the ball will trump positioning for a rebound. Size means a lot, but how would Highmark et al have done with Bonner in the middle?

[billiken_roy]

we didnt forgo guards in place of brooks. we signed jason edwin and chris sloan. hindsight says brooks would have been better than either, but at the time, no way i take brooks over sloan or edwin. but the point is, we didnt pass on brooks to sign a bunch of bigs.

[billiken_roy]

louisville's inside players werent walt bellamy like centers, but they werent donnie dobbs either. they have always had quality inside players. sure the mccray's and wiley brown, or pervis ellison werent 7 foot tall, but they were 6'7" -6'9", strong as can be and if not thickly muscled wide bodies wirey jumping jacks galore.

last years louisville team had:

otis george 6'8" 225

brian johnson 6-9" 245

terrance farley 6'10" 220

Juan Palcios 6'8" 245

ellis myles 6'7" 245

no one would confuse any of those with 6'4" wings masking as pf's.

sorry, louisville isnt the answer to the trivia question "name the last very successful program that won with only one inside player and 10 guards?"