Some still believe SLU should have gone to the Valley

[Quality Is Job 1]

I listened to Game Night on ESPN Radio this evening. Doug Gottlieb, who played for Oklahoma State a few years back, is one of the hosts. I usually enjoy his contributions, because of his knowledge of college basketball. However, tonight he ticked me off by saying that Saint Louis made a mistake in going to the A-10. He said SLU should have gone to the Missouri Valley. Hmph! I don't respect him quite as much now.

I don't mean to drudge up this sore old topic, but I did want to report what I heard. As far as realignment goes, it's moot, because the decision have already been made, and most fans of Billiken basketball are happy with the move, but I wonder if some national "experts" will continue to talk down about the Billikens in the coming years. Why do I have a feeling that, three or four years from now, some national writers and talking heads will still be saying, "SLU made a mistake in joining the A-10 over the Missouri Valley," despite the fact that Brad Soderberg may very well have the Bills playing for the A-10 championship? What makes me mad is that you'll probably NEVER hear or read of any "expert" saying that Charlotte made a mistake in joining the A-10 or that Marquette and DePaul made a mistake in joining the Big East.

[Billikenbooster]

Thicks-How do you get italics and bold in your script in your posts? Do you print them up on Word then transfer them to the message box?

[Box and Won]

, just do the same thing, but using the letter B instead of I.

[kshoe]

I was in Chicago last weekend and was listening to the Depaul pre-game show which was basically a call-in show. The topic of Depaul in the Big East was brought up and many didn't think it was a good move because they would be bottom feeders, if they couldn't compete in CUSA how can the compete in the Big East. The problem is not exclusive to SLU. You get enough opinions out there and some of them are bound to be wrong, such as this guy you were listening to.

[billiken_roy]

i was sitting with earl austin jr last nite at the belleville west tourney and at halftime of the althoff vs ofallon game, ken roberts of the post dispatch and art voellinger of the suburban journals were both telling earl how it was such a mistake. you could see the frustration in earl's face as he just shook his head, and turned away from them. we then discussed the hopelessness of trying to get the non-believers to see the light. imo, the problem is that for some ungodly reason, i really think that those that are preaching mvc, just dont think we can compete in the a-10. that alone is hillarious as we have consistently competed in every conference we have ever been in and are going to a conference that is a position behind our current conference.

earl totally agreed that it is huge that we finally get to compete against like minded programs as well.

i pointed out to earl, and he agreed, that slu kind of made this problem themselves by not getting the media folks sold for the a-10 before the story broke. the fact that frank and ramsey were originally touting the mvc as well only jump started the mvc touters.

personally, i think we just let the non-believers spout off. in two years when the change occurs, if brad can hit on some inside players to go along with the outstanding guards and wings the billiken roster is going to have by then (polk, drejaj, clarke, liddell, meyer and possibly lisch), i think we are positioned to enter the a-10 with quite the splash. then we will silence the crowd once and for all. imo, billiken future looks quite rosy.

[bonwich]

Today's P-D h.s. preview lists "10 local players to watch." Three of them have signed with the Billikens.

Next year's advertising theme: "Root, root, root for your homeys."

[BillikenButch]

Roy...

Do believe they think we can't compete in the A-10? Or is it that they think the A-10 is no better than the MVC?

My sense is that they have little knowedge of what the A-10 is capable of accomplishing. I even have to remind myself that #14 St. Joe's is in the A-10.

[kwyjibo]

All excellent points.

I don't think people realize that the A-10 is already 7/12ths Catholic and there are only 2 public schools (and Richmond/Temple have religious roots). I was just in a co-workers office and he has a Duquesne degree on his wall. The official name of the university is Duquesne University of the Holy Spirit.

[billiken_roy]

no they think we cant compete in the a-10. proof of that is they always make the statement that insinuates they think we will annually contend for the title in the mvc and thus find ncaaland easier. of course the flaw in that thinking even if it was true is that the mvc has normally been a one bid conference thus it would always come back to the mvc tourney where we all know anyone can win and anything can happen.

i forget another point that earl pointed out and all these mvc pushers just refuse to grasp. the out of conference schedule. there is no way the billikens would ever see the likes of arizona, missouri, kansas, illinois, ucla etc ever again. the top conferences just do not play mvc teams, especially at the mvc place.

like i said, i have decided you cant talk to these folks. clayborne is the example of their rockheadedness. let it go and let's count on brad making the big splash the first year to put this b.s. to bed. it is sad we have to endure it for two years, but the vengence will be sweet in the end.

[BillikenButch]

Well these naysayers aren't friends of the program to begin with. I do expect them to accept to the wisdom of this decision. I will, however, expect to see them all over the place at our games once Brad has the program ranked. The bandwagon will then be filled with the likes of Claiborne.

[Box and Won]

I think that a lot of people are under the impression that schools like UMASS and Temple are still major basketball powers as well.

[MU88]

SLU should not have gone to the A-10. Its not that they will not be able to compete. That is silly. SLU will do fine, although I don't believe you have the right coach. The A-10 is simply not that good of a league. With 10 NCAA wins in the last 5 years, and 7 of those coming from a Temple program in decline, I just think the league is hhighly overrated. The Valley is just as good of a league in hoops and better in most other sports. If SLU had joined the Valley, it would have regional rivalries that would help fill that new arena of yours. Except for maybe Temple, X and Dayton, Duquense, LaSalle, Fordham and the rest are not going to put one single fanny in the seats. On the other hand, even tiny Drake would probably have had an alumni event to coincide with the game and generate an extra 300-500 tickets sold. Of course, I understand that that joining the A-10 was probably dictated by fundraising for the new arena, but I think would achieve greater and more long lasting success in the Valley. In any event, you will be in the private school version of the Big East in 5 years, so I guess the point is somewhat moot.

[Quality Is Job 1]

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[Billiken Law]

>All excellent points.

>

>I don't think people realize that the A-10 is already

>7/12ths Catholic and there are only 2 public schools (and

>Richmond/Temple have religious roots). I was just in a

>co-workers office and he has a Duquesne degree on his wall.

>The official name of the university is Duquesne University

>of the Holy Spirit.

Actually of the 14 A-10 schools the public schools will be Charlotte, Temple, URI, Richmond and UMass.

Catholics will be SLU, Xavier, Fordham (all Jesuit), Duquense, LaSalle (I think), Dayton and St. Bonaventure, St. Joe's

Non-Catholic/Other private schools will be GW.

I think the argument most people have with joining the A-10 is not that SLU won't be competitive (they will) but rather the vast geographic distance SLU is from the rest of the conference members.

[Quality Is Job 1]

>SLU should not have gone to the A-10. Its not that they

>will not be able to compete. That is silly. SLU will do

>fine, although I don't believe you have the right coach.

>The A-10 is simply not that good of a league. With 10 NCAA

>wins in the last 5 years, and 7 of those coming from a

>Temple program in decline, I just think the league is

>hhighly overrated. The Valley is just as good of a league

>in hoops and better in most other sports. If SLU had joined

>the Valley, it would have regional rivalries that would help

>fill that new arena of yours. Except for maybe Temple, X

>and Dayton, Duquense, LaSalle, Fordham and the rest are not

>going to put one single fanny in the seats. On the other

>hand, even tiny Drake would probably have had an alumni

>event to coincide with the game and generate an extra

>300-500 tickets sold. Of course, I understand that that

>joining the A-10 was probably dictated by fundraising for

>the new arena, but I think would achieve greater and more

>long lasting success in the Valley. In any event, you will

>be in the private school version of the Big East in 5 years,

>so I guess the point is somewhat moot.

Maybe the A-10 is overrated, and I believe the Missouri Valley is underrated; nevertheless, the bottom line is the money and the at-large NCAA Tournament bids. Even if the A-10 is overrated and the MVC is underrated, the Valley is STILL not as good as the A-10 in men's basketball. You're fooling yourself. SLU will continue to maintain its regional rivalries with SIU, SMS, and Mizzou as non-conference games. But the games against the MVC teams will, on the whole, hurt SLU's attendance even more than the few bottom-rung A-10 teams. Lastly, there's NO WAY that SLU could enjoy longer-lasting success in the MVC than in the A-10. SLU was a member of the Horizon (when it was the MCC), which is on a plane similar to the Valley, so I guess you remember how many more NCAA Tournament at-large bids SLU got then than it got as a member of the Great Midwest and C-USA.

[Box and Won]

Add one more private school: I'm pretty sure that Richmond is private.

[Box and Won]

I actually typed square brackets, but they came out as an angle bracket in my post. Thanks!

[Quality Is Job 1]

In order to get square brackets -- "[" and "]" -- to appear in a post, one must use Unicode. To get the left side of the square bracket, use the following (without the hyphens): &-#-91; To get the right side, use (without hypens): &-#-93;

And your homewark assignment is....

[Billiken Law]

you are correct - non-denominational private school (like GW). Smaller than I thought - only 3400 students.

[Basketbill]

I think it is a private school, i may be wrong..

[Basketbill]

I have never quite understood why but with these kind of issues the majority of people here in missouri need to be shown that something can work. I had similar discussions with a SLU alum when they joined GMW/CUSA, similar discussions about metrolink before it opened (people won't use it etc...)I personally think Brad is the coach to show these folks. Regarding the MVC prior to Webber, the MVC was a one team leauge, we will see now if they can sustain two teams year in year out.

[cheeseman]

One more time - as has been noted numerous times on this board - the attendance for games with SIU and SMS are not larger than games with other teams we play. so the attendance rational is simply not true!!! Look at the facts!!! Next, the distance issue is also silly. Travel for Mizzo to Colorado or Houston is not much farther than SLU will have with those A-10 schools on the east coast. If you don't believe me than look at a map - it is easily over 800 plus miles to Boulder from Columbia and by the time you factor in driving to St. Louis to catch a plane - which they do many times rather than drive to KC - the distance is well over 900 miles. Houston is about the same distance. So this idea that it would be easier to take a bus to Drake or Northern Iowa or Terra Haute is just crazy. Finally, all the arguements made for why SLU should be in the MVC could also be made for why Mizzo should be in the MVC for basketball. So those of you are still dense about this issue - just keep it to yourself - we on this board have the facts and have weighted all the pros and cons accordingly. As far as media - local or national - is concerned, stupid uninformed comments can be made on any topic by anyone. That still does not make the comments correct.

[Quality Is Job 1]

...and I'm still waiting for anyone who is knowledgeable about college sports and isn't in the pocket of a BCS conference (hmm, who might that include in national media?) to show me how the MVC could be better than the A-10 for helping SLU better its position nationally.

I give up on trying to convince people locally that the decision that's in the books is the best choice, because -- bottom line -- SLU is St. Louis's team and they're going to have to follow SLU in the A-10 despite the fact that it's not the Valley, whether they like it or not. No, I started this thread because I'm concerned about whether the national media (like ESPN -- Doug Gottlieb) will stop looking down their noses at SLU.

[Basketbill]

we have to show them, we need to win, beat better teams, defend our home court, fill the seats etc.......hope it happens soon

Happy Thanksgiving ALL

[billiken_roy]

sighhhhhh. mu, the day we have the likes of siu or sms as one of our highest drawing games, i will tell you how smart you are. the fact is they arent. our highest drawing games year in and year out are the national teams and the conference usa top teams. the mvc does not have this mythical band of traveling fans you speak of. the fact is the mvc fan base actually sucks. they cant even get enough fans at their conf tourney to open the top bowl of the savvis. conference usa sells nearly 20k tix per tourney.

next argument is the question, "if you are truly a billikens fan, i assume you enjoy getting to see the national teams like kansas, arizona, illinois, missouri, ucla etc come to town each year to play a game or two? if so, do you realize that those teams refuse to now come to mvc towns to play?"

that wont be the case if we are in the much higher rated a-10.