Team coached by Brad's mentor scores 29.

[3star_recruit]

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab/boxscore?gid=200412040446

[RadDad1999]

WSU has seven freshman on their roster and their point guard is out with an injury. They are rebuilding and even the coach admitted this game, agaionst a team that could make the F4 again shouldn't have been scheduled. The guy has a track record of success, but, that program was in such bad shape, it will take time.

[aj_arete]

Are you beginning to have doubts about whether Brad's system can work at SLU?

When I started the Slaten thread, you seem to intimate that if Brad doesn't start to quicken the tempo that he will only fuel the speculation that he lies or misleads recruits. I really think all this team needs is a win and regain their confidence.

I know you've been critical of his focus on defense in the preseason and totally disregarding offensive execution. I think Brad is fully aware of this mistake and will address this next year.

Now you're taking an indirect dig at Brad by highlighting the problems of Bennett at WSU. Brad has stated that he is willing to loosen his offensive tempo when he gets the right athletes. I still think we're a year away from getting that.

[3star_recruit]

"Now you're taking an indirect dig at Brad by highlighting the problems of Bennett at WSU. Brad has stated that he is willing to loosen his offensive tempo when he gets the right athletes."

I don't think its an accident that Bennett and Brad's teams have the most anemic offenses out of all the teams in the top seven conferences. There are mediocre teams all over Division 1 that score in transition. It appears that the only way we score in transition is to steal the ball from Troy State.

[aj_arete]

However, there are many variations to the motion offense. For one, just look down the road in Champaign and see how Bruce Weber is running a motion offense with seamless precision and at an uptempo rate.

I think that has something to do with the talents of Dee Brown, Williams, Head and countless others.

Let's also realize that there was much grousing about Weber's tactics last year when players were reluctant to follow his system. From where I sit, it looks like SLU's players either haven't bought into his system or fail to understand his system.

If it's the former, we will have a LONNNG SEASON, until Brad earns their respect.

If it's the latter, I hope they work out the kinks within the next couple of weeks.

[3star_recruit]

Last year with a good senior point guard and a ton of upperclassmen, Bennett's team averaged 58 ppg. When he had a couple of top 100 players in the stating lineup at Wisconsin, they averaged about 60 ppg. That's just how his teams play offensively. And Brad is his protege.

I fear that that last year's 63 ppg "explosion" (relatively speaking) may be an anomaly and the offensive struggles of 2002-3 and this year may actually be the norm. What happens next year when we have all those underclassmen Bennett's team has this year?

Brad can say he wants to play more uptempo when he gets better athletes all he wants, but he and his mentor's history at D-1 says otherwise. I believe Brad wants to change, I just don't think he knows how.

[Billiken Rich]

We're pushing the ball more than I've seen in the past. We aren't scoring as much because NO ONE IS HITTING THE SIDE OF A BRICK WALL!!!! If I had this group of kids I'd be preaching defense too because they aren't exactly snipers.

Please lighten the hell up Three Star, your negativity is getting tedious. If we are dribbling into a deliberate half court set when we've got Polk, Tommie, and Kevin then I'll shake my head. At the moment who do you want running and gunning with Dwayne? Reggie certainly. Who else????

[billiken_roy]

in defense of brad and the thought of will the offense become more uptempo, i think the team plays up and down a lot more than it ever did since hughes was gone. there is no denying that the billikens are now trying to go down the floor and score sooner than in years past imo.

the fact the ball isnt going in the basket is concerning, but i dont think it is about grinding the shot clock as it has been the last few years.

we need some guards that want to be constant motion. like i said yesterday, too much standing around and that isnt brad's doing as we could hear brad screaming "move!" most of the day. hell maybe they are all out of shape. i dont know and i dont see how that is possible. but if i was the coach track practice would start tomorrow.

[3star_recruit]

"At the moment who do you want running and gunning with Dwayne? Reggie certainly. Who else????"

You really think we lack the athletes to run on Austin Peay and Eastern Michigan? Then adding two freshmen when we're going to lose Reggie and Izik ain't gonna make any difference. You call it being overly negative, I call it being the ugly truth. I wish it were different

[courtside]

Rich is easily the most negative person on this board. That one was funny.

[Billiken Rich]

Where the hell are you getting that? I haven't been the most negative person on the board for a long time, if ever. I've always been upbeat about the basketball Bills since the general Romar malaise was lifted when we figured out that Brad could actually recruit. I was not exactly alone in thinking (correctly) that Romar's departure left a huge recruiting deficit filled admirably by Brad with late recruits like AD, and Clark, and IO.

Unlike the newly negative, I've never said anything to the effect that the coach is pissing away the season and has no idea how to run an offense.

Now soccer on the other hand....Yeah I'm really negative about soccer, though not the soccer Bills

[aj_arete]

Quite frankly, if he was still here, I have no doubt that he gets Lisch, Liddell and Polk too. Romar had the misfortune of being at the helm when local hoops wasn't so great.

With the exception of Reggie Bryant and most likely Polk, I can't say Brad has recruited all that well. Then when you look at Romar's and Brad's records, I don't see much of a difference. I also don't have to mention how good Washington is this year. I happen to like both coaches, but you have to give Romar the edge over Brad right now. Romar was very underrated as a coach at SLU. I really see a double-standard here because I don't see much of a difference in records.

Now Brad has ALL of his players and looks like he's off to a worse start than at any time under Romar.

[Billiken Law]

If Romar is still here we have probably the best big man in CUSA in Ryan Hollins.

[ACE]

Romar inherited a team with Love, Jeffers, Perry, Tatum, etc. which went to the Dance. The talent on Romar's teams got worse during his tenure here. On the other hand, Brad inherited a team with Marque and little else. I contend the talent level now, in spite of the poor start, is better than when Brad took over and with Lisch and Liddell on the way will continue to head in that direction.

[Billiken Law]

people here has been lamenting the loss of Fisher and Sloan being a major factor in this team's struggles (for good reason) and you're saying Brad inherited nothing from Romar? Guys like Sloan, Fisher and Kenny Brown contributedly mightily to the success SLU has experienced in Brad's first two seasons.

[billiken_roy]

Law is right. cant have it both ways. right now considering the funk that tom frericks is in and the inexperience of ian and bryce, we would kill to have kenny brown and chris sloan inside again. just this weekend we had a string claiming that we wished we had josh fisher back at the point. and as law pointed out above, had romar stayed, maybe the center position would have been solved with ryan hollins. romar has proven with his job he did bringing in the majority of the ucla national championship class and now this great team he has at washington both present and future (top 5 recruiting class for next year) that he can recruit. as i have said before, his problem at slu was he got too deep with top kids. just like a poker game, where you would be better off with a lessor hand than the second best hand where you bet all the chips and lose, college recruiting might be similar as by the time the likes of jamal sampson, travis deiner, chuck hayes, david lee, or darius miles made their choices, the second tier recruits had already made their selections. i believe eventually those first tier kids would have come to slu. but it is obvious now with the success lorenzo romar is having that he was a quality coach. the timing just didnt work out.

[ACE]

Can anybody refute that the talent during Romar's tenure got worse?

I generally like Romar, but I don't see how anybody could refute that. Brad got his first team in the NIT with mirrors.

[slu72]

Hats off to 'Zo at WU. He has proved he can recruit in the territory he knows best WC to a WC school. Something he couldn't do here. That said, what Zo left UB was an empty pantry. Edwin, Pulley, and Seyfert all left after him. What UB did over the summer of 2002 was amazing. But his first full class of DC, IV, Frericks, and Husak has not impressed. Results are still out on DP, LM, and VN for this year. Also, lets face it SLU ain't the easiest place to recruit to.

[aj_arete]

about Hollins, Sloan and Fisher. I forgot about them. It's just unfortunate that St. Louis area hoops rarely has the top-level talent to compete on a consistent basis in CUSA. Everyone thinks Soderberg is a great recruiter because he came along at an ideal time with St. Louis hoops has never been better (Polk, Liddell, Lisch, Grimes, etc).

Look at the other years and Soderberg has given us Drejaj, Johnson, Izik, Ian, Frericks... I'm sorry, but that's no better than what Romar was giving us.

[ACE]

>about Hollins, Sloan and Fisher. I forgot about them. It's

>just unfortunate that St. Louis area hoops rarely has the

>top-level talent to compete on a consistent basis in CUSA.

>Everyone thinks Soderberg is a great recruiter because he

>came along at an ideal time with St. Louis hoops has never

>been better (Polk, Liddell, Lisch, Grimes, etc).

>

>Look at the other years and Soderberg has given us Drejaj,

>Johnson, Izik, Ian, Frericks... I'm sorry, but that's no

>better than what Romar was giving us.

In Soderberg's defense, shortly after Romar left, Hollins left, Edwin and Pulley flunked out and it was late in the spring signing period. Most players were already signed elsewhere. Under those circumstances, Brad did pretty well to round up Johnson, Drejaj and Izik.

[aj_arete]

for saying that Brad's first recruits didn't look so hot a couple of years ago. I remember how optimistic posters were about that first class, but I knew at the time that Brad faced some real extenuating circumstances then.

As I stated then, I gave Brad a free pass for that first year. But now explain the recruits from the next two classes... The jury is still out, so I won't be so quick to state that Brad has been a more effective recruiter than Romar yet. Especially when I'm 90% sure that Romar gets Polk, Liddell and Lisch...

[slufanskip]

I don't know that I would say the class of DC, IV, TF, and BH has not impressed.

TF ... had a good year last year ... With the exception of aj, I don't know of any one on this board who wasn't expecting him to be in the top half (at least) of centers in CUSA. We don't make the NIT without him last year. As for this year ... I along with everyone else am puzzled, but it is only 5 games.

DC ... I would say as a 6'4" 2 guard he has not impressed. I am not sure if he will or not. He is playing behind an all conference player and we have Lisch and Liddell coming in.

IV ... I would say he has impressed. He is a 6'11" center who is just beginning his soph. year. He has been inconsistent ... but I think he will be a very good player for us before he is through.

BH ... Were you not impressed with his play against ORU ... He is a 7' freshman ... His time is yet to come. I haven't seen enough to say I am high on him, but the ORU game gave us a peek at what could be in store for us during his Jr and Sr years.

On the next class ... I would say that it is too early to determine what we have in VN and LM ... but the results are in for DP. He is good ... he needs work to improve on his perimeter shot, but I will gamble right now he will finish his career as the best pg in Billiken history.

The one thing UB hasn't done is recruit a big time 4.

Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman

[billiken_roy]

i'll be thrilled if dwayne polk becomes "the best pg in billiken history". in my time of seeing the billikens, that would put him above david burns, charlie newberry, h waldman and josh fisher. all would be great players on any team. i hope you get this one right.

[slufanskip]

He is the best offensive pt guard right now since H. I didn't get to see Burns or Newberry ... so I should check my prediction because it is hard to say he will be better than someone I haven't seen. I think he will be that good though ... just my opinion.

Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman

[3star_recruit]

It's always hard to project these things but when you look back on our freshman point guards over the last 15 years, none of them averaged 3 assists a game. If the team can get back to shooting 42% from the field instead 36%, Polk will average over 4 assists a game as a freshman.