Champion's Center

[billikenfan05]

2 hours ago, TheChosenOne said:

While not as negative, I was going to post something similar to JMM. This facility was needed. The support facilities at Chaifetz were not nice when it opened. Great facility obviously (I think the perfect viewing experience for college basketball), but the weight room, training room, locker rooms, offices, etc. were never top of the line. This new facility is not some game changer if you pay attention to college athletics beyond SLU. However, it brings us closer as did the locker room project a few years back. As courtside posted, you have to have the facilities and now NIL. It is easy for coaches at BCS programs to focus solely on NIL, their programs are bringing in wild television $ and already have better than pro level facilities for their players. Tip of the cap to those who made this happen, but this is the price of competing at the major level. Now, part of the facility issues have been addressed (where some of the programs actually compete is a bit embarrassing), but there will always be more and now NIL needs to be funded. It is silly to pretend we have been in any way successful with NIL (focusing on current players only matters when we already had guys on the roster like Yuri and Jimerson, that strategy will need to change as we see the failures landing prep and transfer targets), so that needs to get fixed if we are going to compete at the level most of us want us to. No need to be negative, but also probably silly to pretend this is more than it is. Courtside could link a bunch of projects that would properly contextualize the world we are playing in. I think maybe SLU fans aren’t as aware and heck, we saw our primary athletic facility being West Pine Gym until 15 years ago.

Man really good post. I honestly hadn’t thought about the academic support and general athletics facilities in Chaifetz in since I actually spent a decent chunk of time in that part of the building in undergrad. And I probably hadn’t thought about them because they didn’t really exist. You had like a conference room with a bunch of desk space and that’s it.

Truth be told this really is an essential update to Chaifetz and one long overdue. I can’t wait to see how it can elevate men’s soccer, women’s soccer recruiting specifically because we are already recruiting at a high level. This actually could push those two over the “plateau”. Maybe it is a game changer in that regard. But it’s also a necessary and long overdue upgrade that will put us on par with a lot of schools, but it’s also not revolutionary or anything special. 

[JMM28]

2 hours ago, Box and Won said:

Table stakes.

 Best post of the thread and most concise point.

[Old guy]

There is, in my opinion, a curious issue with the people still posting in this board. There does not seem to be a solid appreciation about money availability or about what things cost. One aspect no one has mentioned is the cost of keeping buildings in good shape. The Champion's Center will certainly add support and maintenance costs to the AD budget. How much additional income, if any, it will provide to the AD is yet to be seen. The same lack of appreciation happened last season, when a lot of people were sure we would have abundant money donations for paying NILs. Nope, that did not happen.

Ultimately what counts is winning games, that is what will bring money and opportunity to the SLU AD. 

[billikenfan05]

10 minutes ago, Old guy said:

There is, in my opinion, a curious issue with the people still posting in this board. There does not seem to be a solid appreciation about money availability or about what things cost. One aspect no one has mentioned is the cost of keeping buildings in good shape. The Champion's Center will certainly add support and maintenance costs to the AD budget. How much additional income, if any, it will provide to the AD is yet to be seen. The same lack of appreciation happened last season, when a lot of people were sure we would have abundant money donations for paying NILs. Nope, that did not happen.

Ultimately what counts is winning games, that is what will bring money and opportunity to the SLU AD. 

Old Guy types a lot, says nothing. SLU owns the building but outsourced management. Thus nobody is asking. 
 

Nobody thought we'd have an abundance of NIL money. 

[TheChosenOne]

3 hours ago, Box and Won said:

Table stakes.

That nicely sums up my entirely too long post!

[TheChosenOne]

2 hours ago, billikenfan05 said:

Truth be told this really is an essential update to Chaifetz and one long overdue. I can’t wait to see how it can elevate men’s soccer, women’s soccer recruiting specifically because we are already recruiting at a high level. This actually could push those two over the “plateau”. Maybe it is a game changer in that regard. But it’s also a necessary and long overdue upgrade that will put us on par with a lot of schools, but it’s also not revolutionary or anything special. 

In no way is this meant to be a shot at Chaifetz, but the supporting facilities and even some of the aspects of the arena itself (like the suites and concourses) while being serviceable were what I would call builder grade from the day it opened. Again, great facility especially when you look at what we came from which is beyond embarrassing, but it was obvious to me that improvements would need to be made not long after it opened. The locker room, weight room, practice gym, training room, and offices being spaces that were obviously not done to some first-class level. Since that time the locker room has been renovated and now with the Champions Center more improvements/additions (and like you said, some of these support facilities didn't exist or in sufficient scale previously) have been made. I don't care enough to look it up, but assuming no updates, the other items I mentioned if not part of these projects could still be improved. The question is likely always what is the best use of the funds that we have or what should the next big project we raise $ for be? Some of the items I have mentioned are likely not as high up on that list as I am sure they have decided for improvements to fields or facilities for other non-revenue generating sports like baseball and softball. Agreed on soccer. Soccer is the sport that we seem the closest to being elite in and I think we are positioning ourselves to where what we are offering reflects that. The soccer stadium itself could certainly be improved (I don't watch soccer, but my guess is there are not a lot of really nice college soccer stadiums, so probably not a huge concern), but with the locker room and Champions Center, we have a quality setup for the soccer programs. Just more words to agree with you that while this is a welcomed addition to our facilities and seemingly a nicely done project (I haven't seen it in person), as you say it is not revolutionary either. I recently watched videos on Florida's new football facility which included facilities for all athletes (including a pool) and Georgia's new football facility and that gives those who do not follow a BCS football program or the sport in general what big time athletics looks like. It is something else.

[billikenfan05]

21 minutes ago, TheChosenOne said:

In no way is this meant to be a shot at Chaifetz, but the supporting facilities and even some of the aspects of the arena itself (like the suites and concourses) while being serviceable were what I would call builder grade from the day it opened. Again, great facility especially when you look at what we came from which is beyond embarrassing, but it was obvious to me that improvements would need to be made not long after it opened. The locker room, weight room, practice gym, training room, and offices being spaces that were obviously not done to some first-class level. Since that time the locker room has been renovated and now with the Champions Center more improvements/additions (and like you said, some of these support facilities didn't exist or in sufficient scale previously) have been made. I don't care enough to look it up, but assuming no updates, the other items I mentioned if not part of these projects could still be improved. The question is likely always what is the best use of the funds that we have or what should the next big project we raise $ for be? Some of the items I have mentioned are likely not as high up on that list as I am sure they have decided for improvements to fields or facilities for other non-revenue generating sports like baseball and softball. Agreed on soccer. Soccer is the sport that we seem the closest to being elite in and I think we are positioning ourselves to where what we are offering reflects that. The soccer stadium itself could certainly be improved (I don't watch soccer, but my guess is there are not a lot of really nice college soccer stadiums, so probably not a huge concern), but with the locker room and Champions Center, we have a quality setup for the soccer programs. Just more words to agree with you that while this is a welcomed addition to our facilities and seemingly a nicely done project (I haven't seen it in person), as you say it is not revolutionary either. I recently watched videos on Florida's new football facility which included facilities for all athletes (including a pool) and Georgia's new football facility and that gives those who do not follow a BCS football program or the sport in general what big time athletics looks like. It is something else.

The thing about SLU's outdoor athletics facilities campus is that it's like watching a 90s movie in 3:4 SD vs a remaster in widescreen and HD. It looks amazing from a distance but when you can see all the little details you start to notice the neglect on the current facilities.

[Old guy]

34 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said:

Old Guy types a lot, says nothing. SLU owns the building but outsourced management. Thus nobody is asking. 
 

Nobody thought we'd have an abundance of NIL money. 

Am I to understand that outsourced management is free, meaning that it costs nothing? I agree the Champions Center adds image, but it is not likely to add profits to offset its costs. I think your posts confirm your significant lack of understanding about money and about costs. It does not really matter who pays for the outsourced management, someone within the University has to pay for them. I doubt this building will generate any profits for the AD or the University, but it will add costs. You also should understand that outsourced management of a building generally costs more than internally paying  for the management of a building. The reason for this is that internal management pays for the costs incurred, outsourced management has to cover the costs incurred plus profits for the outsourced management providers.

The money for NILs was not going to happen and it was evident that would be the case way before last season was over. 

 

 

[billikenfan05]

11 minutes ago, Old guy said:

Am I to understand that outsourced management is free, meaning that it costs nothing? I agree the Champions Center adds image, but it is not likely to add profits to offset its costs. I think your posts confirm your significant lack of understanding about money and about costs. It does not really matter who pays for the outsourced management, someone within the University has to pay for them. I doubt this building will generate any profits for the AD or the University, but it will add costs. You also should understand that outsourced management of a building generally costs more than internally paying  for the management of a building. The reason for this is that internal management pays for the costs incurred, outsourced management has to cover the costs incurred plus profits for the outsourced management providers.

The money for NILs was not going to happen and it was evident that would be the case way before last season was over. 

 

 

I've heard of liking to hear yourself talk, in fact I'm one of those. But I've never heard of liking to see yourself type until you arrived.

I am well aware of money thank you. The cost would be worth discussing and easier to discuss if it was wasn't just written into and amended into the existing contract with OVG and Delaware North. Additional cleaning services, operation of a small kitchen/cafeteria and ongoing tech maintenance? It's a negligible addition when compared to the entirety of the arena.

[TheChosenOne]

I recall the athletic department and folks with whatever the NIL fund is called saying we were well positioned to attack the transfer market. I know many of us were quite skeptical hearing that, but that was coming from the inside. Basically deflecting anger for a season that didn’t meet expectations. Don’t worry, the season was actually a success and we are well positioned to have success in the transfer market. Not so fast…..

[Fraz]

Maybe this is a dumb question but are fans allowed in?  I was picturing a portion of the building for the public (TVs, cafeteria, food/drink, etc.) but maybe I’m way off

[Lord Elrond]

22 minutes ago, Fraz said:

Maybe this is a dumb question but are fans allowed in?  I was picturing a portion of the building for the public (TVs, cafeteria, food/drink, etc.) but maybe I’m way off

It didn’t look that way to me, looks like the building is for student athletes and coaches

[Adman]

On 10/10/2023 at 4:33 PM, billikenfan05 said:

The problem is of course timing. This was a perfect project 5 years ago. Looking it now, I don’t know if it moves the needle for men’s basketball. For all intents and purposes it’s just a renovation of the basketball offices. It’s major for the non-revs, don’t get me wrong. 

No argument there. I think it moves the needle for men's basketball, but only a little. Serious NIL is the real need. Outside of a lucky season, we need horses. 4-star players.