3star_recruit Posted October 20, 2004 Share Posted October 20, 2004 I know I'm going to get crucified for this but I read SLU_Nick's 3rd post and I wasn't impressed. I guess my preference is for a fan to bring more to the table than pointing out a size limitation everyone is already aware of. Please give me motivation to get on SLU_Nick's bandwagon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 If he is a Saint he may bring you gifts at Christmas. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SluSignGuy Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 Don't be too hard on him 3 star. Everyone has their bad analysis, and everyone is not extremely knowledgible about new players (not saying that you aren't Nick (I personally disagree with you assessment of Polk, but who knows what happens until the games are play), but 3 star is a bit of an expert). Welcome to the board, and hopefully you stick around for a while. It is the best place you will find to talk about the Billikens. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLU_Nick Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 Well that is about what I expected and I got the answer I wanted. I will continue to post throughout the season and some insights might not exactly be what people want to hear. On a side note, I don't think that asking the board to compare JF and DP was such an innane post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjray Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 >Well that is about what I expected and I got the answer I >wanted. I will continue to post throughout the season and >some insights might not exactly be what people want to hear. > >On a side note, I don't think that asking the board to >compare JF and DP was such an innane post. First, welcome to the board. Opposing viewpoints are welcome. Let's "compare" JF and DP then in more ways than physicality standing still. Josh built himself into a beast of a point guard and we all say congrats to Josh for the hard work in the weight room. These efforts brought him a pro career in Europe and a Latin girlfriend as a nice bonus on the deal. Will DP be able to post up his man down low the way Josh could? No, ain't going to happen. But how often to college guards go down low and post? Will DP be able to come back and help rebound on the defensive end the way Josh did? I think you'll find that Dwayne's speed will allow him to gobble up the odd long rebound here and there but he will not match Josh in that category either. But are those really the things one looks for when recruiting a PG? Of course not. The PG sets the tempo, the pace of the team. Josh was not build for the up tempo game at PG (I'd love to have him filling a lane on the break but not carrying the ball). With DP, we will finally be able to run the break ourselves and get some easy transition baskets. When have you ever seen a Billikens team do that as part of normal game strategy? Maybe Larry the Legend's one year and, before that, not since David Burns (1970s). OK, what about the 1/2 court set on offense? Josh was a very accurate passer but he drove me to distraction how deliberate he was with the ball in the 1/2 court set. It pained me to see Josh motionless at the top of the key holding the ball like a forward waiting for someone to break open. How often did Josh break down his man off the dribble creating an easy basket for a teammate? Hardly ever. Occasionally he would do the lefthanded power drive where he got the defender on his hip at the left edge of the lane and just butt bump the guy underneath the basket and then throw up a baby hook. I liked it but this was a rare occurrence. How many times do you remember Josh getting Reggie or Izik or Tom an easy basket? Pretty rare. How about Josh's outside shooting to take the pressure off of Reggie? His career numbers from 3 were reasonable but he ran hot and cold plus lacked confidence in his shot. Josh did not look to take the open 3 unless the clock was running out (my observation). Dwayne should not only be able to take his man off the dribble setting up teammates for clean looks (or layups) but also is an exceptional perimeter shooter which we desperately need to compliment Reggie. Why we are all excited about Dwayne is that his existence in our lineup has the potential to change the whole complexion of the Billikens as an offensive team. Instead of plodding half court team that relies heavily on picks to get our players shots, we can become a running team that generates easy baskets in transition and we now have two guards who can break their man down off the dribble creating matchup problems. I really hope this is what our Billikens become this year. Dwayne brings new possibilities and dimensions to our team. Will we miss Josh's defense? You beat. But remember that Josh often guarded the opposing 2 or 3--whoever was their greatest scoring threat. There were instances where Josh could not handle the opposing PG ... ND in the NIT last year being a prime example. The ND game last year or the Butler game 2 years ago are examples of situations where Dwayne's quickness would have been more valuable to us on defense than Josh's strength. Just my take on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 nick said, "I don't think that asking the board to compare JF and DP was such an innane post." maybe not innane, but imo, unfair. josh is the all-time leader in assists for the billikens, and can arguably be called the greatest defender the billikens ever trotted out on the court. we havent even seen dwayne polk under the savvis lights yet. in four years, i will be happy to compare them. second, they are totally different style of players. polk is a rocket and as close to the example of today's point guard as they come, josh is physically an nfl safety who is a control player and a converted point guard. each has their merits. while there is no doubt that dwayne will have trouble defending bigger guards as they get closer to the basket and are able to use their size advantage, it is naive to believe that in the open court there are but a few guards in the country that might be able to run with our track star. the fact we have lacked anything close to dwayne's athletic skills for a long time (he might be the fastest billiken ever) ought to outweigh any doubts about what dwayne polk brings to the table. especially considering we have other guards very capable of filling the spots and insert in the case of matchup problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 Call it your opinion ... but it isn't insight. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 jjray said, "I really hope this is what our Billikens become this year." i will be shocked if we become a fast break team this year. while i agree that the addition of dwayne polk and the subtraction of josh fisher leads us in that direction, you are assuming that dwayne is tj ford right now. i am still betting that dwayne doesnt even start for the billikens to begin the season. if he does, you may be closer to being right on the style of play the billikens will exhibit. but more than likely, the coaches will look to take advantages on situations more than they did the last few years and push the ball down the floor. everything will continue to be dictated by billiken defense and that kind of effort will likely still have the billikens somewhat in a holding pattern. people have asked me if i think that they will run more when tommie liddell and kevin lisch arrive? to be honest, it might increase the pace a little more, but the real key is having the players inside that can consistently stop drives to the basket, get every rebound and throw outlet passes. turn ian and husak into bill russell or bill walton and then we are off to the races. while you have to have the guards that can beat everyone down the floor and finish, which we will have with drejaj, clarke, polk, lisch and liddell, you have to have someone that can get them the ball in an advantage situation. plus, remember the pack defense demands that 4 of the defenders are inside the pack circle. outlet passes are tough to make to a guard standing 10 feet away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjray Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 >>plus, remember the pack defense demands that 4 of the defenders are inside the pack circle. outlet passes are tough to make to a guard standing 10 feet away.<< Good point. We'll see how it develops. I had thought initially that Drejaj would start at point with DP building up minutes as the season progresses. However, with the injury to Drejaj, DP has his chance to run with the first squad immediately. Trying to read the tea leaves of coach's comments in the media guide and other places, I think the probability of DP starting at point from day 1 have risen. If so, the team will run more. Reggie and DP are suited to that style. How about Izik joining the break? Can see that easily. I think you are right though that there is likely not to be a major shift in the first year but transition more into a running team as we add personnel more suited to that style of play. Put Liddell, Polk and Lisch on the floor together and we have the horses for up-tempo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brehms13 Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 Take it from me Nick.........just roll with the punches, because there will be some thrown. Overall this board has very very good discussions, the good things are, this board isn't only open to experts but to all who have an opinion. I have had some opinions that weren't sometimes popular, but it's all good. I was taken aback by this post, simply because to me it implies that Nick's post has no interest or merit and I laughed. I couldn't believe we would possibly discourage someone based on their questions. But anyway as was said before, keep posting and welcome to the board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 I hope Polk is lightening quick and a good defender but it'll still shock me to see a freshman come in and start for Brad. I hope that Polk is everything he's said to be but admittedly still never having seen him play I'm skepical. He'll have to show me. Boy am I looking forward to an UMSL game! Never thought I'd say that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 when thicks asked anthony beane tuesday nite "who does he see as the backup to dwayne polk?" coach beane's first comment was to make it clear that polk has not yet been named the starter. that drejaj and even clarke are very much in the running to be the starting point guard. coach beane also told us that they expect anthony to rejoin practice next week, i.e. his injury obviously is coming around pretty quick and drejaj will be in the mix from day one. as i have stated before, i do believe come march, dwayne polk will be getting lion's minutes, however, after watching practice the first night, i believe even more firmly that dwayne will not be the starter from day one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 rich for the record, i have not said that polk will start from day one unless drejaj is unable to play due to injury. if i am the head coach, drejaj is my opening night point guard unless injured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kahok Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 Polk is lighting quick, but to take full advantage of that quickness, you have to have four other guys that can get out and flat run with him. I believe that we are still one or two recruiting classes away from having a team that can take full advantage of that quickness. he is going to have a learning curve when it comes to handling that speed this year, because the overall team speed is not there he will have to slow the pace down some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted October 21, 2004 Author Share Posted October 21, 2004 I'm going to have leave thicks hanging on this one. When he was soliciting questions mine was "who will share point guard duties with Polk while Drejaj is recovering from injury" not "who does he see as a backup to dwayne polk?" One implies that Polk is in the mix at point guard and one implies that Polk is the starter. In any case, it looks like Clarke will be the backup if Drejaj can't go right away, which is what I wanted to know. I thought Coach Beane might mention Bryant also because Bryant is a good ballhandler and passer -- we could have a Bryant/Clarke backcourt for a handful of minutes in the exhibition games -- but it doesn't look like the staff is thinking that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 I do think Polk will start from day one. I'm looking for a three guard lineup with Drejaj being the third guard if healthy. The brochure they handed out at the Tip-Off meeting will be your starting lineup most games.{Isac,Tom,Polk,Bryant,Drejaj] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLU_Nick Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 I would be interested the see polk, DC and bryant running the 3 guard set. If DC could hit a couple open jumpers it would open up the middle and then on the defensive glass it would be off the races, (especially if Newbourne is in at the 4). That line up might be ready to run this year. Doesnt everyone wish the season would just start so we could stop all this speculating Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 i think they will start newborne from day one at the sf and on first substitution mr polk comes in and they go small. the first man out will be whomever screws up first or commits the most stupid fouls between frericks and izik. boy would i love to be wrong on that pessimistic view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 I think Newbourne will be the first guy off the bench at the 3 or 4 spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 Indeed. Bring on the Riverfolk! Hopefully the questions about Polk are doue to the fact that our recruiting is getting much much better than it has been. If we can bring in freshman who can do all they need to do to start this is going to get fun in a hurry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 nick said, "Doesnt everyone wish the season would just start so we could stop all this speculating" boy i agree with that. btw nick, welcome to the board. it is great to have another enthusiastic and strong poster to banter with. dont take any of our responses hard. if we dont respond that is when we dont even take you serious. so take it as a compliment! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted October 21, 2004 Author Share Posted October 21, 2004 Whether Polk starts or not is really irrelevant. He just needs to get enough time on the floor to make an impact on the game. Against a pressing team like UAB or Louisville he may need to play 30+ minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted October 21, 2004 Author Share Posted October 21, 2004 No doubt. And I hope that you saw what I was trying to accomplish with my sarcastic post: Calling the new guy "not impressive" isn't really fair when you haven't really seen enough of the new guy to make that determination -- whether it's a player or a poster. Welcome to the board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 >I'm going to have leave thicks hanging on this one. When he >was soliciting questions mine was "who will share point >guard duties with Polk while Drejaj is recovering from >injury" not "who does he see as a backup to dwayne polk?" >One implies that Polk is in the mix at point guard and one >implies that Polk is the starter. > >In any case, it looks like Clarke will be the backup if >Drejaj can't go right away, which is what I wanted to know. >I thought Coach Beane might mention Bryant also because >Bryant is a good ballhandler and passer -- we could have a >Bryant/Clarke backcourt for a handful of minutes in the >exhibition games -- but it doesn't look like the staff is >thinking that way. There's always something lost in translation. How could my asking who would back Polk up at the point while Drejaj is recovering imply that Polk would be installed as a starter even if Drejaj were healthy? It seems to me that it would make sense that if -- if -- Drejaj isn't able to go, Polk is the starter? And what difference does it make how the journalist phrases the question as long as he/she reports the answer accurately in context? Coach Beane first said that Drejaj should be ready to go next week. Then he said that it's not a given that Polk will start and that he, Clarke, and Drejaj are competing for the position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 Coach Beane said that it will be hard to keep Vas'shun Newborne off of the floor. He's a very good rebounder, and even though he's not as big as Chris Sloan, he's very skilled -- better at shooting and putting the ball on the floor. Since Izik Ohanon will be a power forward full time, Newborne will likely log most of his time at the three and back up Izik at the four. Coach Beane said that Newborne is very tough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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