hsmith19 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I'm not saying this is going to be a tourney team next year because the 2011 team turned out to be. My point is that fretting over the "now that Majerus is gone they will always suck forevermore" sentiment is futile. This team was never going to change that mindset. It ignores too many realities, one of which is that we had a terrible season under similar-to-current circumstances under Majerus himself. Even if we made the CBI this year, the same people would be saying that's a sign we have resumed our pre-Rick mediocrity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmith19 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 A corollary here is that, even with the ugly losses to Corpus Christi and South Dakota State, this team still has a very real shot of finishing with a winning record. That would put it close to even with the results Majerus got in his first couple seasons, when he had two players this current team would absolutely kill for right now. Yeah, it's possible this team finishes with the current 280 RPI or whatever it is we're at right now. I'd still be very surprised, though. At the start of this season most people would've settled for a mediocre 16-15, and mediocre is still very possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Final Kenpom ranking in 2010-2011 was 129. The lowest we were ranked that season was #156. Offensive efficiency was #257 Our worst loss was to #239 Bowling Green at home. That was our only loss against a team ranked worse than #175 We are ranked #184 right now. Offensive efficiency is #275 Our worst loss is to #287 Texas A&M CC at home. IUPUI, Duquesne, and Jacksonville were all better wins than SIUC this year (by the numbers) Austin Peay, Missouri State, and Portland were all ranked higher than South Dakota State. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I by no means have given up on the future of this program, but at least as of right now, this team is horrible and they've regressed since the beginning of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 A corollary here is that, even with the ugly losses to Corpus Christi and South Dakota State, this team still has a very real shot of finishing with a winning record. That would put it close to even with the results Majerus got in his first couple seasons, when he had two players this current team would absolutely kill for right now. Yeah, it's possible this team finishes with the current 280 RPI or whatever it is we're at right now. I'd still be very surprised, though. At the start of this season most people would've settled for a mediocre 16-15, and mediocre is still very possible. Before the season I stated it was stretch to expect more than 18 wins out of this team. I would have settle for 17. I don't see how we get to 16 wins right now. Even if we manage to find a way to beat Vermont or Vandy, we would then have to win eight conference games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JettFlight5 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I by no means have given up on the future of this program, but at least as of right now, this team is horrible and they've regressed since the beginning of the season. At times the future has looked bright. But the present looks like a dumpster fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmith19 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Final Kenpom ranking in 2010-2011 was 129. The lowest we were ranked that season was #156. Offensive efficiency was #257 Our worst loss was to #239 Bowling Green at home. That was our only loss against a team ranked worse than #175 We are ranked #184 right now. Offensive efficiency is #275 Our worst loss is to #287 Texas A&M CC at home. IUPUI, Duquesne, and Jacksonville were all better wins than SIUC this year (by the numbers) Austin Peay, Missouri State, and Portland were all ranked higher than South Dakota State. If we're going to rank terribleness by degrees, then I am willing to concede that this team at its worst has been vomit to 2010's diarrhea (or whichever one represents a loss to #287 as opposed to #239). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stlhoops Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Just a bunch of over reactions here. Team sucks, Crews sucks, the team has regressed, blah blah blah. The team will works itself out. Anyone who didn't think this year was going to be rough was lying to themselves. Also, Tyler Cook is a beast. I think we all focus so much on Tatum when SLU probably has a more realistic opportunity to pick up a kid like Cook. Or one of the other many quality recruits in the area. I get the fascination with Tatum but there is a lot of other talent in and around town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiseAndGrind Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Once or twice in 4 years?? We just went three straight years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted December 10, 2014 Author Share Posted December 10, 2014 We've always said our model programs are Zaga and X. They have been consistent winners over the years and only rarely do they have a down year. Honestly, can't remember the last time Zaga had one, but Xs down years are never in the toilet years, which is where it seems we're headed for this season. Building a consistent competitive program s/be the goal not one where you make the dance a year or two in a row and then disappear for ten. This has been our history. It's the reason we built the Fetz, ie better facilities and a better game experience for fans. I think the FR class could a foundation for future success, but as with any program it all rests on the HC's shoulders. Is JC the man? I don't know but he deserves his shot. But even more important will be his successor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 We've always said our model programs are Zaga and X. They have been consistent winners over the years and only rarely do they have a down year. Honestly, can't remember the last time Zaga had one, but Xs down years are never in the toilet years, which is where it seems we're headed for this season. Building a consistent competitive program s/be the goal not one where you make the dance a year or two in a row and then disappear for ten. This has been our history. It's the reason we built the Fetz, ie better facilities and a better game experience for fans. I think the FR class could a foundation for future success, but as with any program it all rests on the HC's shoulders. Is JC the man? I don't know but he deserves his shot. But even more important will be his successor. Best post of the day. We can be Xavier. Since 2000, they've only missed the NCAA 2 times and their worst season was 17-14 where they finished 6th in the A10 going 9-7. They won at least a share of the A10 7 times. That's incredible and the A10 is better, but there's no reason to expect every 4th or 5th year to be a 12-15 win season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted December 10, 2014 Author Share Posted December 10, 2014 Considering all the HC's X has been thru makes their record even more impressive. But they have had a hell of a succession plan, as they never go outside their program to hire a new coach. One leaves, promote the AC. Continuity's a good thing. Something we've never had until JC took over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I've been thinking about Xavier compared to SLU a lot this season for another reason: they have 6 freshmen on the roster and 7 newcomers with a junior transfer - exactly like SLU. But look at the names - Remy Abell (IU transfer who chose XU over SLU), Larry Austin, Jr. (St. Louis Eagles PG who chose Tennessee, decommitted, and chose XU), J.P. Macura (SLU offered, wasn't a finalist), Sean O'Mara (SLU offered, wasn't a finalist). The other three include a UCLA decommit (Trevon Blueitt) and two other top-100 talents (Makinde London - who is redshirting - and Edmond Sumner). Basically, XU is beating teams with the recruits who SLU couldn't land, and SLU is losing to teams with recruits who weren't our first or second choice players. It's made this season particularly painful for me; my wife's family has XU season tickets so I've been to a few games. I've seen Abell finish the drives and hit the threes that Ash hasn't consistently finished or hit. O'Mara is the big body underneath that we don't have. Macura is a do-it-all offensive player who provides a huge spark off the bench (had 7 points and an assist in one particularly fun minute the other night). Granted, Xavier isn't perfect this year - 6-2, with losses to UTEP and Long Beach State, but we're another team that historically hasn't played well in those Thanksgiving neutral tournaments (and they saw Beach twice because that was an earlier buy game). But they hung 97 on Alabama the other night, demolished a solid Murray State team, and have a really strong offense. They show signs of being freshmen on the defensive end and have a lot to learn. Still, it's tough to watch what could've been at SLU while the Billikens lose to the likes of Texas A&M-Corpus Christi and South Dakota State. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I've been thinking about Xavier compared to SLU a lot this season for another reason: they have 6 freshmen on the roster and 7 newcomers with a junior transfer - exactly like SLU. But look at the names - Remy Abell (IU transfer who chose XU over SLU), Larry Austin, Jr. (St. Louis Eagles PG who chose Tennessee, decommitted, and chose XU), J.P. Macura (SLU offered, wasn't a finalist), Sean O'Mara (SLU offered, wasn't a finalist). The other three include a UCLA decommit (Trevon Blueitt) and two other top-100 talents (Makinde London - who is redshirting - and Edmond Sumner). Basically, XU is beating teams with the recruits who SLU couldn't land, and SLU is losing to teams with recruits who weren't our first or second choice players. It's made this season particularly painful for me; my wife's family has XU season tickets so I've been to a few games. I've seen Abell finish the drives and hit the threes that Ash hasn't consistently finished or hit. O'Mara is the big body underneath that we don't have. Macura is a do-it-all offensive player who provides a huge spark off the bench (had 7 points and an assist in one particularly fun minute the other night). Granted, Xavier isn't perfect this year - 6-2, with losses to UTEP and Long Beach State, but we're another team that historically hasn't played well in those Thanksgiving neutral tournaments (and they saw Beach twice because that was an earlier buy game). But they hung 97 on Alabama the other night, demolished a solid Murray State team, and have a really strong offense. They show signs of being freshmen on the defensive end and have a lot to learn. Still, it's tough to watch what could've been at SLU while the Billikens lose to the likes of Texas A&M-Corpus Christi and South Dakota State. Kelan Martin at Butler is another what could have been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Kelan Martin at Butler is another what could have been. I've thought about doing a "Where are they now?" thread on the last couple recruiting classes, but it'd probably be too painful. Especially right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 I've thought about doing a "Where are they now?" thread on the last couple recruiting classes, but it'd probably be too painful. Especially right now. It would be interesting to see. I seem to remember one of those a year or so ago and most of the players we missed on hadn't been doing well. Many saw that as a good thing since we didn't land them but I saw it as a negative that we weren't recruiting the right caliber of players. At least this time around we were missing on impact kids! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 It would be interesting to see. I seem to remember one of those a year or so ago and most of the players we missed on hadn't been doing well. Many saw that as a good thing since we didn't land them but I saw it as a negative that we weren't recruiting the right caliber of players. At least this time around we were missing on impact kids! The 50-50 guys have really brought it to my attention. The way Abell has looked and the way Martin is playing at Butler- it's painful. Those guys probably would've made enough of a difference not to lose to SDSU and TA&M-CC. (I'll still do one of these threads when I get some time.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Remember all the talk on here from some about Butler being done as a winning basketball program? All that talk was happening while Butler was still playing close to top 100 level basketball, against a tough schedule, and without their best player. What Butler had last year was a down year/rebuilding year. What we are having is something completely different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Butler is also currently doing it without their head coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwayne's_World Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Butler is also currently doing it without their head coach. Doesn't it then fall on the athletic director to ensure a winning direction is taken? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Doesn't it then fall on the athletic director to ensure a winning direction is taken? I'm not sure what you mean. Point is, Butler's head coach is still on a long leave of absence for medical reasons, and they're winning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Doesn't it then fall on the athletic director to ensure a winning direction is taken? Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying but they are winning and are ranked in the top 25 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Said this in another thread but it probably applies here too Rebuilding years are expected for schools like SLU. But I don't understand why we're accepting that rebuilding means even 12 or 13 wins. Again, I think we should strive be like Xavier. They've missed the tournament twice since 2000 and their worst year was 17-14 and a 6th place A10 finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwayne's_World Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 I'm not sure what you mean. Point is, Butler's head coach is still on a long leave of absence for medical reasons, and they're winning. Obviously Butler hired the right guy after Stevens booked it. Their program could have easily fallen off the map. They must have also hired some good assistant coaches to keep the team going while the HC is sick. Would our assistants be able to coach the team to wins without Crews? Not sure if that makes sense or not... I think my point is, if Crews doesn't pan out, then who takes the blame? I still am fully confident in Crews though and the decisions to hire him, but just saying.... I believe that if we are having a conversation about the SLU program as a whole versus other programs throughout the years, then this is a legitimate question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy two times Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Was in the doctor's office today and found a year old SI w/ cover of Coach K and J. Parker. It's gonna be hard steering JT away from him. First, he has his great record going for him, save the last couple of years. Second, he tells recruits he's worked w/ the best players in the world as US Olympic coach, and that he can teach them their traits, habits, etc. This article alone would be a great recruiting tool as it reveals how much work and attention he gives his special players. Little details that refine their games. Going to be a hard sell for JC and staff. Is anyone in Jayson's family on the waiting list for a heart transplant? If they are, then we have a shot, based on past scenarios. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.