sludevil Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 Mizzou is not a bad program. But there are only two programs in the SEC that really matter, and Mizzou isn't one of them. Maybe they'll step up and claim the bronze medal, but to do so will require answering a lot of questions about their coach, roster, fan support, and AD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUTGR Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 Amazing what correspondence courses can do for a school's APR. Well played. You are one of the better posters here - you usually come with a sharp blade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUTGR Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 Mizzou is not a bad program. But there are only two programs in the SEC that really matter, and Mizzou isn't one of them. Maybe they'll step up and claim the bronze medal, but to do so will require answering a lot of questions about their coach, roster, fan support, and AD. True. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUTGR Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 Yep, 76-28 in 3 years, never won less than 23 games, 2 NCAA appearances, National COY, at least 4players drafted or playing in the NBA, he didnt maintain the great start, but wasnt by any definition bad I actually met Frank in passing once and thought he was a great guy. Average at best coach though - he couldn't get his teams to play defense. And that's one area in all sincerity I totally give credence to SLU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUTGR Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 Yep, 76-28 in 3 years, never won less than 23 games, 2 NCAA appearances, National COY, at least 4players drafted or playing in the NBA, he didnt maintain the great start, but wasnt by any definition bad Yep - I actually liked Frank. although I thought he was a terrible hire. Most articulate coach we've ever had - but he was regressing toward his mean after a 30 win first year with other players. I figure most coaches with a track record are what they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUTGR Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 I know Haith wasn't amazing and missing the tournament sucked but did everyone here suddenly start thinking that winning just shy of 75% of your games is terrible suddenly? Mizzou really has come a long way from the Quin Era if that's the best you can do. Yes, they won 23 games, beat in the non-conference 3 NCAA tournament teams, and probably missed the NCAA by only a couple of SEC wins. They clearly didn't deserve to go though and seemed disinterested. Couldn't/wouldn't play defense or share the ball. But not exactly the disaster many of our antagonists like to portray. Had made 5 NCAA's in a row prior to last season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JettFlight5 Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 I know Haith wasn't amazing and missing the tournament sucked but did everyone here suddenly start thinking that winning just shy of 75% of your games is terrible suddenly? Mizzou really has come a long way from the Quin Era if that's the best you can do. How many NCAA wins? The bolded part is irrelevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bay Area Billiken Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 2 Words- Norfolk State. And that was as a 2 Seed, an ignominious loss of historical proportion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 2 Words- Norfolk State. And that was as a 2 Seed, an ignominious loss of historical proportion. Duke lost to a 15 that year too. Program is a disgrace, obviously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 How many NCAA wins? The bolded part is irrelevant. Sure that's why I said he wasn't amazing, but most schools would love to win 75% of their games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
For-DaLove Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 Duke lost to a 15 that year too. Program is a disgrace, obviously. Duke? Duke? Are you really trying to compare your program to DUKE?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmith19 Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 That's what makes it impossible for me to root for Mizzou. Their fans actually seem to believe they are on par with "rival" programs like Kansas and Illinois (or even Duke?). Say what you want about SLU fans, but there have never been similar delusions of grandeur. SLU fans never pretended to have even the pedigree of an Xavier, for example. And the insufferable Mizzou fans have gotten much worse in the past 20 or 25 years. I'm not sure if it's a case of them starting to believe their own press releases, or just that the fans out there now are a tad too young to remember that even in the golden days of Norm Stewart, their best teams consistently crapped out before they were expected to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwayne's_World Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 That's what makes it impossible for me to root for Mizzou. Their fans actually seem to believe they are on par with "rival" programs like Kansas and Illinois (or even Duke?). Say what you want about SLU fans, but there have never been similar delusions of grandeur. SLU fans never pretended to have even the pedigree of an Xavier, for example. And the insufferable Mizzou fans have gotten much worse in the past 20 or 25 years. I'm not sure if it's a case of them starting to believe their own press releases, or just that the fans out there now are a tad too young to remember that even in the golden days of Norm Stewart, their best teams consistently crapped out before they were expected to. Hit the nail on the head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmith19 Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 Sure that's why I said he wasn't amazing, but most schools would love to win 75% of their games. Matt, he had one good year when he was hired, up until that first game in the tournament. No one can take hat away from him. But trying to spin the last 2+ years as any kind of success is just impossible to take seriously. I know you can do better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STL Hoops Insider Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 2 Words- Norfolk State. And that was as a 2 Seed, an ignominious loss of historical proportion. The star player for Norfolk State has played more NBA games the last 2 years than anybody on SLU or Mizzou's roster that year. He was a stud and though unexpected, I dont think its a loss to be ashamed of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
For-DaLove Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 The star player for Norfolk State has played more NBA games the last 2 years than anybody on SLU or Mizzou's roster that year. He was a stud and though unexpected, I dont think its a loss to be ashamed of. Hahaha you've outdone yourself. Mizzou had 100x more talent than Norfolk State. That kid was a stud, but that was an extremely embarrassing loss. That Mizzou team was one of the most talented teams in the country. I question your sanity if you actually believe it's not a loss to be ashamed of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 Matt, he had one good year when he was hired, up until that first game in the tournament. No one can take hat away from him. But trying to spin the last 2+ years as any kind of success is just impossible to take seriously. I know you can do better. The fact that you guys see that as an abject failure when we had losing seasons within the last 10 years is a success in and of itself. I don't expect you guys to not twist my words (nowhere did I say that we were on par with Duke, just that upsets happen to everybody), but I do expect you guys to use a modicum of sensibility when trying to disparage your "rivals." SLU is on top right now, and deservedly so, but if the bills win 23 games this year and just narrowly miss out on the tournament I don't think anybody would say to themselves "This program is in a disaster state right now." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bay Area Billiken Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 Duke lost to a 15 that year too. Program is a disgrace, obviously. It's Mizzou and you Mizzou apologists' delusions of grandeur. This thread is not about Duke. You lost to Norfolk State of the MEAC. Period. You also greatly damaged your Basketball Program by leaving the much stronger Big XII for the much weaker SEC, a league that garnered only 3 NCAA Tournament teams from a 14 team league, a very poor showing. You abandoned your longstanding conference partners of over a century, and are now pleading, begging to play Kansas. Why should Kansas play MU? What does Kansas Hoops have to gain? Nothing. Kansas leads that all-time series 172-95. If Bill Self really wanted to stick it to MU, he would schedule SLU home and home ... It is truly astounding the warped opinion you Mizzou apologists have of your program. It has been a mess for a long time, an embarrassing mess. This being said, the hire of Kim Anderson was a start in the right direction. He should have been hired long ago, and clearly was the best available choice this time. He may well be the coach to put the Missouri back into Mizzou. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 It's Mizzou and you Mizzou apologists' delusions of grandeur. This thread is not about Duke. You lost to Norfolk State of the MEAC. Period. You also greatly damaged your Basketball Program by leaving the much stronger Big XII for the much weaker SEC, a league that garnered only 3 NCAA Tournament teams from a 14 team league, a very poor showing. You abandoned your longstanding conference partners of over a century, and are now pleading, begging to play Kansas. Why should Kansas play MU? What does Kansas Hoops have to gain? Nothing. Kansas leads that all-time series 172-95. If Bill Self really wanted to stick it to MU, he would schedule SLU home and home ... It is truly astounding the warped opinion you Mizzou apologists have of your program. It has been a mess for a long time, an embarrassing mess. This being said, the hire of Kim Anderson was a start in the right direction. He should have been hired long ago, and clearly was the best available choice this time. He may well be the coach to put the Missouri back into Mizzou. It's astounding how warped your opinion is. You're describing Mizzou basketball like it's still in the end of the Quin era. It's not anymore. Leaving the Big 12 had nothing to do with Basketball, no one is "begging" to play kansas, and overall the move continues to prove to be a wildly successful one. Sure Mizzou fans would love to play Kansas in both football and basketball but we're not exactly crying over it. I know that for SLU the college sports landscape begins and ends with basketball but for most schools it begins and ends with football. I know you hate Mizzou. I get it. Pretending we're in way worse shape than we are is what's ridiculous. We're one year removed from a run of 5 straight tournament appearances. That's embarassing? kansas and SLU playing a home and home wouldn't stick it to Mizzou, by the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sludevil Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 I'm by no means a Mizzou fan, but there's a lot of unnecessary jumping on and twisting of cheesycow's words in this thread. He never said Mizzou is on par with Duke (or Kansas). Jumping to the SEC (from the unstable and Texas-dominated Big XII) was a great move for Mizzou athletics. I've never heard anyone from Mizzou begging to play Kansas. I mean, a lot of this stuff is just patently untrue. And Mizzou is by no means a great program - there have been a lot of failures over the last several years, and a lot of questions remain. But to attack cheesycow and put words in his mouth just makes us (SLU fans) look bitter and aggressive. Chill, people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bay Area Billiken Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 I'm by no means a Mizzou fan, but there's a lot of unnecessary jumping on and twisting of cheesycow's words in this thread. He never said Mizzou is on par with Duke (or Kansas). Jumping to the SEC (from the unstable and Texas-dominated Big XII) was a great move for Mizzou athletics. I've never heard anyone from Mizzou begging to play Kansas. I mean, a lot of this stuff is just patently untrue. And Mizzou is by no means a great program - there have been a lot of failures over the last several years, and a lot of questions remain. But to attack cheesycow and put words in his mouth just makes us (SLU fans) look bitter and aggressive. Chill, people. Get real. MU and its media apologists are foaming, practically begging, to play Kansas. Bill Self has commented re the issue himself. It is not happening anytime soon in Hoops or Football, and won't happen in Hoops, as Self said, until it benefits Kansas. MU's move to the SEC threw away over 100 years of Mizzou athletics tradition, as well as the very history of its own state. Longtime rivalries with Kansas, K-State, and Iowa State were shelved, as were the rivalries with Oklahoma and Oklahoma State. Although Mizzou apologists claim Big XII instability, as noted by others, there is an argument that Mizzou at least in part created that instability. No less than Dr. Tom Osborne at Nebraska has been quoted re Mizzou. What Mizzou really coveted was Big Ten membership, not SEC membership. That would have made much more sense given that Missouri is a Midwestern, not a Southern state. But alas, the Big Ten picked longtime MU rival Nebraska, not Mizzou. As for cheesycow's predictable and pathetic recurring defense of State U., as noted before, the word "hate" is a very strong word, and wholly inapplicable herein. Enough said there. Now that being said, how about some word association: Rich Daly Quin Snyder Charter flights for basketball players' Moms Ricky Clemens The miraculous accumulation of credit hours in one summer of true academic intensity and virtue ATV Fuel drums at Columbia Regional Airport to block the media's view of Mike Anderson and the Fayetteville plane Frank Haith Miami Transfers Norfolk State NCAA Suspension of Haith Tulsa Bailout And of course, Boone County Duck Season and the annual Boone County Non-Conference Bake Sale of cupcakes. Yeah, it's been a glorious 15+ years in Boone County, no question. Got it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 Cheesycow knows well why SLU fans feel animosity towards Mizzery. For years, we've been treated like the proverbial red headed step child or poor relation by the local media and a lot of folks in Missouri. We're the second biggest D1 hoops school in the state and yet we get very little love even in our own home town. Granted, once RM arrived this changed to some extent, and we had a brief fling with it when Spoon was here. Still Mizzery's the state's flagship U, so naturally they're going to get the bulk of the love. And for a lot of years, under Norm, they deserved it while SLU toyed with the idea of dropping down a level. But Mizzery's AD itself has treated us in the same way as the press and the fans. They won't play us, which only goes to tick us off more, even though if an annual traditional game had been established say back in the early 70s, they'd probably have a .667 winning percentage against us. When you look at the last 15 years both programs have had their ups and downs. Although, the case could be made Mizzery's downs have been self inflicted and well deserved, ie Quinn's disastrous tenure and Haith arriving in Columbia with a dark cloud hanging over his head. SLU's made it's own mistakes in hiring an incompetent, albeit inexpensive, HC, and a West Coaster who wanted back to the WC. However, the real rub is Mizzery and their fans still consider themselves as part of the royal court of college hoops. At least SLU fans view our program realistically. Yes, we have been good, great for us, the last 3 years, but we know we don't measure up to similar type programs such as Zaga and X. Hopefully, that's our goal and the admin supports it fully. As fans we fear we're always just one bad season or two from slipping back into mediocrity.On the other hand, Mizzery still thinks they're on par w/ KU, UK, etc. Get a grip, kitten fans. You've had scandals, kids in legal trouble, and transfers by the bundle since you can't bring in any of the top 50 players. You're not top tier and your fans demonstrate it by their attendance. If you're good they go to the games, if you're not, they don't. When UK was having some tough years, Rupp still sold out. Same w/ Louisville fans, they still went when Crum had them on the downslide. That's what defines a top program. You're not, so stop telling yourselves you are. Oh, and by the way, PLAY US A FRIGGIN HOME AND HOME! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 Get real. MU and its media apologists are foaming, practically begging, to play Kansas. Bill Self has commented re the issue himself. It is not happening anytime soon in Hoops or Football, and won't happen in Hoops, as Self said, until it benefits Kansas. MU's move to the SEC threw away over 100 years of Mizzou athletics tradition, as well as the very history of its own state. Longtime rivalries with Kansas, K-State, and Iowa State were shelved, as were the rivalries with Oklahoma and Oklahoma State. Although Mizzou apologists claim Big XII instability, as noted by others, there is an argument that Mizzou at least in part created that instability. No less than Dr. Tom Osborne at Nebraska has been quoted re Mizzou. What Mizzou really coveted was Big Ten membership, not SEC membership. That would have made much more sense given that Missouri is a Midwestern, not a Southern state. But alas, the Big Ten picked longtime MU rival Nebraska, not Mizzou. We're no more "begging" kansas than SLU fans are "begging" Mizzou. Oh, and by the way, PLAY US A FRIGGIN HOME AND HOME! MU's move to the SEC has brought so much money and relevance to the athletic department as a whole. We get as much money as Alabama and LSU from day one, not begging for Texas' scraps. Texas created the instability by assuming they owned the other 11 schools. The instability existed long before B1G expansion, that just exacerbated it. Leave it to you to try to talk smack on Mizzou "settling" for the SEC. SLU is in the unenviable position of hoping to hear from a shattered Big East and I should be ashamed that my school joined the most powerful athletic conference in the country? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 It's astounding how warped your opinion is. You're describing Mizzou basketball like it's still in the end of the Quin era. It's not anymore. Leaving the Big 12 had nothing to do with Basketball, no one is "begging" to play kansas, and overall the move continues to prove to be a wildly successful one. Sure Mizzou fans would love to play Kansas in both football and basketball but we're not exactly crying over it. I know that for SLU the college sports landscape begins and ends with basketball but for most schools it begins and ends with football. I know you hate Mizzou. I get it. Pretending we're in way worse shape than we are is what's ridiculous. We're one year removed from a run of 5 straight tournament appearances. That's embarassing? kansas and SLU playing a home and home wouldn't stick it to Mizzou, by the way. The program was actually in a better spot at the end of the Quinn era than it is today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
For-DaLove Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 We're no more "begging" kansas than SLU fans are "begging" Mizzou. Oh, and by the way, PLAY US A FRIGGIN HOME AND HOME! MU's move to the SEC has brought so much money and relevance to the athletic department as a whole. We get as much money as Alabama and LSU from day one, not begging for Texas' scraps. Texas created the instability by assuming they owned the other 11 schools. The instability existed long before B1G expansion, that just exacerbated it. Leave it to you to try to talk smack on Mizzou "settling" for the SEC. SLU is in the unenviable position of hoping to hear from a shattered Big East and I should be ashamed that my school joined the most powerful athletic conference in the country? Why do you continue to post here? This is billikens.com. Go to tigerboard and post on your teams board Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.