Minutes per Game

[bauman]

To go along with Ace's PPG I always like to guess minutes per game. While I expect DE to be the man and play as much as possible, I have factored in the fact that he has had an issue wiyh staying out of foul trouble.

DE 32

MM 30

JJ 28

RL 22

AM 21

GG 8

JB 12

JM 8

RA 15

TL 12

MC 11

Walk ons 1

Total 200

Looking at minutes per position impacting PT for the individual players, it struck me that one of the real positives of this team is the flexibility we have with may of the guys being able to swing between a couple positions. The only 1-position player I see is JM who I think is a 5 and only a 5.

[brianstl]

I think we need to adjust these numbers for two to three overtime games and with one of those going to double OT.

[kshoe]

To go along with Ace's PPG I always like to guess minutes per game. While I expect DE to be the man and play as much as possible, I have factored in the fact that he has had an issue wiyh staying out of foul trouble.

DE 32

MM 30

JJ 28

RL 22

AM 21

GG 8

JB 12

JM 8

RA 15

TL 12

MC 11

Walk ons 1

Total 200

Looking at minutes per position impacting PT for the individual players, it struck me that one of the real positives of this team is the flexibility we have with may of the guys being able to swing between a couple positions. The only 1-position player I see is JM who I think is a 5 and only a 5.

So you have Crawford averaging 5 points (per your other post) in 11 minutes per game? Damn, give the kid 30 minutes a game and he'd get close to 14 a game and be our second leading scorer behind Dwayne.

[jimbofive]

I think we need to adjust these numbers for two to three overtime games and with one of those going to double OT.

indubitably.

[bauman]

So you have Crawford averaging 5 points (per your other post) in 11 minutes per game? Damn, give the kid 30 minutes a game and he'd get close to 14 a game and be our second leading scorer behind Dwayne.

Just to make you happy, I'd be glad to reduce his points to 4. Now, do you feel better? Rather than take shots I would think you'd just give your thoughts.

[WVBilliken]

Breakout year for JB. 22 minutes a game minimum.

[kshoe]

Just to make you happy, I'd be glad to reduce his points to 4. Now, do you feel better? Rather than take shots I would think you'd just give your thoughts.

Just wanted to point out an inconsistency. Don't take it too seriously.

As for a more serious take on your minutes per game breakout, it basically implies an 11 man rotation and/or that the three freshmen will all pass by Barnett, Glaze and Manning. Since Crews used a 9 man rotation last year and I can't ever remember an 11 man rotation, I'm going to say that is not terribly realistic.

As for your implicit belief that the three freshmen will pass Glaze, Manning and Barnett by, I just don't see it. Recognizing that you obviously don't think much of those three and that we've already hashed this out on previous threads, I'll just restate that I find it highly unlikely that three freshmen will be able to step in and replace veterans, 2 of which were contributors on the 16th best team in the country. If the freshmen are that good, then WOW, but I'm not there yet and a few 5 minute highlight videos on youtube of them playing highschool teams isn't going to get me there. I do believe all 3 will be good Billikens but there is only playing time next year for one and the years after it will be their time.

[BACKHANDtheRICAN]

To go along with Ace's PPG I always like to guess minutes per game. While I expect DE to be the man and play as much as possible, I have factored in the fact that he has had an issue wiyh staying out of foul trouble.

DE 32

MM 30

JJ 28

RL 22

AM 21

GG 8

JB 12

JM 8

RA 15

TL 12

MC 11

Walk ons 1

Total 200

Looking at minutes per position impacting PT for the individual players, it struck me that one of the real positives of this team is the flexibility we have with may of the guys being able to swing between a couple positions. The only 1-position player I see is JM who I think is a 5 and only a 5.

You are on drugs if you think that many players are logging minutets outside of our cupcake games.

You probably played CYO basketball for Eastsidejoe when everyone played equal minutes and shared orange slices at halftime. Also there were no winners or losers because everyone wins when they try hard.

[bauman]

You are on drugs if you think that many players are logging minutets outside of our cupcake games.

You probably played CYO basketball for Eastsidejoe when everyone played equal minutes and shared orange slices at halftime. Also there were no winners or losers because everyone wins when they try hard.

Actually, those are averages at the end of the year not for each game. I think a few of the players will be significantly under the above figures at the end of the year, just as I think a few will be under the "average" at the beginning.

Who would you change?

[HusakAttack]

Actually, those are averages at the end of the year not for each game. I think a few of the players will be significantly under the above figures at the end of the year, just as I think a few will be under the "average" at the beginning.

Who would you change?

I think Jordair and Mccall are gonna be in the 32-35 range...they are too key to this team...also even if McBroom is as amazing as ppl here seem to think he is still nowhere near the two senior studs

While freshmen might log minutes, I will bet you anything that all 3 of them will not average 10 mpg this yr unless we have several injuries

[bauman]

I think Jordair and Mccall are gonna be in the 32-35 range...they are too key to this team...also even if McBroom is as amazing as ppl here seem to think he is still nowhere near the two senior studs

While freshmen might log minutes, I will bet you anything that all 3 of them will not average 10 mpg this yr unless we have several injuries

I am amazed at the fact that many of you (me included) are really pleased with the quality of the 3 incomimg freshmen, yet don't see them playing much. I have read kshoe's position often that 3 freshmen will not be able to step in on a team that finished 16th in the rankings last year. Conceptionally that seems to make sense, however, when I break it down to evaluating the individual demonstrated talent of the returning players, I think we need a real contribution from at least 2 of the frosh.

If I rate the returning upperclassmen on a 10 point scale (10 being AA, 9 being all A-10 and 5 being a normal A-10 starter talent as guidepoints) I would rate our returners as follows: DE 9, MM 7.5, JJ 7.5, RL 5.5, JB 5, GG 3.5, JM 3. Obviously, there is room to disagree, but that's where I see them. I am hoping (speculating) that this year AM will be a 5.5-6, RA a 6-6.5, TL a 5.5 and MC a 5. I am also hoping to see some improvement in the returners - RL 6-6.5, JB 5.5, GG 4 and JM 4. However, even with those hoped for improved numbers, we need the FR to contribute. Another way to look at it is, "Would we be a NCAA tournament team with only the returning players plus AM?" I don't think so-I don't see a frontline of DE, RL, GG and JM as nearly enough to compete at a NCAA tournament level.

Just one fan's opinion,

[HusakAttack]

I am amazed at the fact that many of you (me included) are really pleased with the quality of the 3 incomimg freshmen, yet don't see them playing much. I have read kshoe's position often that 3 freshmen will not be able to step in on a team that finished 16th in the rankings last year. Conceptionally that seems to make sense, however, when I break it down to evaluating the individual demonstrated talent of the returning players, I think we need a real contribution from at least 2 of the frosh.

If I rate the returning upperclassmen on a 10 point scale (10 being AA, 9 being all A-10 and 5 being a normal A-10 starter talent as guidepoints) I would rate our returners as follows: DE 9, MM 7.5, JJ 7.5, RL 5.5, JB 5, GG 3.5, JM 3. Obviously, there is room to disagree, but that's where I see them. I am hoping (speculating) that this year AM will be a 5.5-6, RA a 6-6.5, TL a 5.5 and MC a 5. I am also hoping to see some improvement in the returners - RL 6-6.5, JB 5.5, GG 4 and JM 4. However, even with those hoped for improved numbers, we need the FR to contribute. Another way to look at it is, "Would we be a NCAA tournament team with only the returning players plus AM?" I don't think so-I don't see a frontline of DE, RL, GG and JM as nearly enough to compete at a NCAA tournament level.

Just one fan's opinion,

Unique scale...

My logic behind this is because we have 5 quality seniors that will likely be our lineup when it counts...I could see Agbeko cracking in there but dont see any of the other frosh being better than any of the seniors this year...

[kshoe]

I am amazed at the fact that many of you (me included) are really pleased with the quality of the 3 incomimg freshmen, yet don't see them playing much. I have read kshoe's position often that 3 freshmen will not be able to step in on a team that finished 16th in the rankings last year. Conceptionally that seems to make sense, however, when I break it down to evaluating the individual demonstrated talent of the returning players, I think we need a real contribution from at least 2 of the frosh.

If I rate the returning upperclassmen on a 10 point scale (10 being AA, 9 being all A-10 and 5 being a normal A-10 starter talent as guidepoints) I would rate our returners as follows: DE 9, MM 7.5, JJ 7.5, RL 5.5, JB 5, GG 3.5, JM 3. Obviously, there is room to disagree, but that's where I see them. I am hoping (speculating) that this year AM will be a 5.5-6, RA a 6-6.5, TL a 5.5 and MC a 5. I am also hoping to see some improvement in the returners - RL 6-6.5, JB 5.5, GG 4 and JM 4. However, even with those hoped for improved numbers, we need the FR to contribute. Another way to look at it is, "Would we be a NCAA tournament team with only the returning players plus AM?" I don't think so-I don't see a frontline of DE, RL, GG and JM as nearly enough to compete at a NCAA tournament level.

Just one fan's opinion,

Without ever having seen them play, I just have a hard time assigning those values to RA, TL or MC. If I were to think back to our senior class as they were freshmen, I'd have a hard time giving any of them anything above a 5. Most of them started but we were a 12-19 that went 7-10 in conference. Conklin was the best player on the team and it was clearly a below average A-10 team.

So if you buy that as freshmen, guys like Evans, McCall, Jett, etc. were 5s or below, I just can't see assigning guys like RA, TL and MC higher ratings for the same experience levels. It implies that those 3 will eventually be better than our existing senior class (which is going to go down in history as the most successful class in the modern era).

At the end of the day, I probably value experience more than many. I truly believe seniors are better than juniors who are better than sophomores who are better than freshmen. I just don't see freshmen coming in and taking minutes from guys like Barnett. If there are minutes to be had it will be with the big men but I still believe that Manning and Glaze will be better than the were last year.

[ACE]

I am amazed at the fact that many of you (me included) are really pleased with the quality of the 3 incomimg freshmen, yet don't see them playing much. I have read kshoe's position often that 3 freshmen will not be able to step in on a team that finished 16th in the rankings last year. Conceptionally that seems to make sense, however, when I break it down to evaluating the individual demonstrated talent of the returning players, I think we need a real contribution from at least 2 of the frosh.

If I rate the returning upperclassmen on a 10 point scale (10 being AA, 9 being all A-10 and 5 being a normal A-10 starter talent as guidepoints) I would rate our returners as follows: DE 9, MM 7.5, JJ 7.5, RL 5.5, JB 5, GG 3.5, JM 3. Obviously, there is room to disagree, but that's where I see them. I am hoping (speculating) that this year AM will be a 5.5-6, RA a 6-6.5, TL a 5.5 and MC a 5. I am also hoping to see some improvement in the returners - RL 6-6.5, JB 5.5, GG 4 and JM 4. However, even with those hoped for improved numbers, we need the FR to contribute. Another way to look at it is, "Would we be a NCAA tournament team with only the returning players plus AM?" I don't think so-I don't see a frontline of DE, RL, GG and JM as nearly enough to compete at a NCAA tournament level.

Just one fan's opinion,

It is quite possible and maybe even likely that only one freshman is in the rotation. With RL, GG and JM, that leaves one spot - Lancona seems to be a better fit in the sense that he is a stretch four and could provide an element Cody did. On the other hand, Reggie might be more physically ready to contribute. It will be interesting to see who emerges. I think that will be the most interesting position battle.

In order to get a second freshman big in the rotation, they would have to be better than either GG or JM. I don't think that will happen. Then in order for Crawford to crack the rotation, he will have to be better than Barnett. I don't think that is going to happen either. My prediction - one freshman will be in the rotation. If a second frosh is good enough to pass up an older player, I will be pleasantly surprised.

[kshoe]

It is quite possible and maybe even likely that only one freshman is in the rotation. With RL, GG and JM, that leaves one spot - Lancona seems to be a better fit in the sense that he is a stretch four and could provide an element Cody did. On the other hand, Reggie might be more physically ready to contribute. It will be interesting to see who emerges. I think that will be the most interesting position battle.

In order to get a second freshman big in the rotation, they would have to be better than either GG or JM. I don't think that will happen. Then in order for Crawford to crack the rotation, he will have to be better than Barnett. I don't think that is going to happen either. My prediction - one freshman will be in the rotation. If a second frosh is good enough to pass up an older player, I will be pleasantly surprised.

That is my prediction as well.

[HusakAttack]

That is my prediction as well.

Mine too. I think starting lineup will be Mccall, Jordair, Dwight, Grandy, Loe with Barnett coming in a few minutes into each half for Grandy and the 5 seniors will be on the floor most of the time. Mcbroom will give the guards rest and Manning and Agbeko will get solid PT as well.

[SShoe]

DE 32

MM 30 31

JJ 28 30

RL 22 26

AM 21 23

GG 8 14

JB 12 16

JM 8 14

RA 15 10

TL 12 2

MC 11 1.5

Walk ons 0.5

Total 200

Less minutes from the frosh. More for Manning, Glaze, Barnett, and McBroom.

[bauman]

Less minutes from the frosh. More for Manning, Glaze, Barnett, and McBroom.

If we are voting at this point, I LOSE.

I guess what it comes down to is the fact that I don't view GG or JM as top quality A-10 players and I'm much more hopeful about the ability of our freshmen than the great majority of posters. As long as one side is right we'll be good, however, if GG and JM meet my expectations and RA, TL and MC meet your expectations, then we are headed to the NIT. (I'm not expecting that)

[ACE]

If we are voting at this point, I LOSE.

I guess what it comes down to is the fact that I don't view GG or JM as top quality A-10 players and I'm much more hopeful about the ability of our freshmen than the great majority of posters. As long as one side is right we'll be good, however, if GG and JM meet my expectations and RA, TL and MC meet your expectations, then we are headed to the NIT. (I'm not expecting that)

Did you like Sloan and Meyer as players?

[HusakAttack]

If we are voting at this point, I LOSE.

I guess what it comes down to is the fact that I don't view GG or JM as top quality A-10 players and I'm much more hopeful about the ability of our freshmen than the great majority of posters. As long as one side is right we'll be good, however, if GG and JM meet my expectations and RA, TL and MC meet your expectations, then we are headed to the NIT. (I'm not expecting that)

I don't think it's that people don't have high expectations for the frosh...just not right away. I expect them all to be key contributors and impact players down the road. As good as they may be, SLU simply does not regularly land impact freshmen players.

[bauman]

Did you like Sloan and Meyer as players?

They were ok, not great but good based on the teams they were on. I thought Sloan made major improvements in his game over his career, whereas, I thought LM improved very little. I was expecting more from Luke as an outside threat than he ever turned into. My recollection is that he was supposed to be a very skilled outside marksman and while he was better than most of his teammates he never approached what I thought he would (could) be.

Both of them made above average contributions to the program, including how they represented themselves as individuals/students and I'm glad they came to SLU.

[SShoe]

If we are voting at this point, I LOSE.

I guess what it comes down to is the fact that I don't view GG or JM as top quality A-10 players and I'm much more hopeful about the ability of our freshmen than the great majority of posters. As long as one side is right we'll be good, however, if GG and JM meet my expectations and RA, TL and MC meet your expectations, then we are headed to the NIT. (I'm not expecting that)

I just think you're greatly underrating GG and JM. At least I hope so because then the 2014/2015 season will be pretty bad.

[bauman]

I don't think it's that people don't have high expectations for the frosh...just not right away. I expect them all to be key contributors and impact players down the road. As good as they may be, SLU simply does not regularly land impact freshmen players.

Ah, but the times, they are changing.

[bauman]

I just think you're greatly underrating GG and JM. At least I hope so because then the 2014/2015 season will be pretty bad.

Based on what they have done in two years in the program, what gives you any basis at all for thinking they will be significantly improved? JM earned few minutes and GG only started for a reason not associated with his skill, but rather his energy.

I think it would be great if you all are right and I am wrong about both of them, but again, what leads you to believe they will be much improved, other than hope and some unfounded belief that all players improve every year. Having watched both of them I'm going to take the position that "I'm from Missouri and need to be shown."

[ACE]

They were ok, not great but good based on the teams they were on. I thought Sloan made major improvements in his game over his career, whereas, I thought LM improved very little. I was expecting more from Luke as an outside threat than he ever turned into. My recollection is that he was supposed to be a very skilled outside marksman and while he was better than most of his teammates he never approached what I thought he would (could) be.

Both of them made above average contributions to the program, including how they represented themselves as individuals/students and I'm glad they came to SLU.

Neither player (Meyer or Sloan) did anything of consequence their first two seasons while they were playing on mediocre squads, yet your overall impression of those two is very positive. Yet, you seem to have a low opinion of a couple of our guys because they have not made major contributions while playing on two NCAA tournament teams. That seems to be an odd way of looking at things.