slufanskip Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 secret lovers? I believe they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HusakAttack Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 whats going on with him and how he keeps getting pt is inexplicable...if team wasnt doing so well Matheny would be getting tons of heat for it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLU_PT_2k11 Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 secret lovers? I believe they are. That would be the only explanation. This tomfoolery has gone on long enough. He's cost us , what, 3 games this year single handedly. Lets get the WAR for him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billboy1 Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 No diiference as with LaRussa and Isringhausen and Franklin. MO needs to step in and "interfere". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted May 31, 2013 Author Share Posted May 31, 2013 No diiference as with LaRussa and Isringhausen and Franklin. MO needs to step in and "interfere". It's really not even close to the same as Izzy and Franklin were proven closers. Boggs has never shown the ability to handle the 9th. Not only that, I'm not sure I've ever seen a pitcher as bad as Boggs has been. I'd love to find out if there is another situation in the history of baseball where a pitcher with an established (over say 12-15 innings) era of 10+ has been brought in to save a 1 run game. They sent him down to get straight and gave him 5 innings, 5 innings. He had a 5+ era and 5 walks in those 5 innings. There is something strange about Matheny's devotion to Boggs. It defies any logic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billboy1 Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Proven closers who were continually put in and produced failure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 matheny isnt a manager. he has inherited a good team with a great starting staff and is winning in spite of his ignorance. remember this is a guy that couldnt balance his personal financial life when he had millions in the bank. the question is why he was ever picked to be the cardinal manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted May 31, 2013 Author Share Posted May 31, 2013 Proven closers who were continually put in and produced failure You should really research a bit and get some facts if you think Boggs situation compares with Izzy or Franklin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbofive Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 the same guy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbofive Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 banging? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbofive Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 banging the same guy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbofive Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 those are my guesses, RE the post subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbofive Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 post padding. could be wrong, but it seems i lost about 1,000 in there somewhere. must have been a game thread deleted somewhere... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billboy1 Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Yes they had their time but this is no different when you put a player in a position for failure-the end result is not going to change. I don't care if Boggs never saved a game or had 500 previous saves he has not been able to do the job just like Isringhausen and Franklin reached the point where they too could not get the job done. The manager has to wake up and set the team up for success not failure. Making the same move over and over that doesn't work shows an unwillingness to look out for the team's best interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbizzle09 Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Proven closers who were continually put in and produced failure Career saves for Boggs prior to this season: 4 The comparison to Izzy and Franklin is ridiculous, at best. Boggs has no proven history as a closer. Those two had proven histories, and very successful seasons prior to their blowups. Back to the question posed by Skip...why is Matheny still utilizing Boggs in the 9th inning, especially with him being such a disaster so far this season? While I don't agree with it, I figure this was his attempt to give Boggs confidence. He knew he couldn't use Mujica last night due to using him in 4 straight games. Now, he could have used Rosenthal or allowed Maness to go out for the 9th. He could have even used Salas or Marte. However, as Boggs was the guy he gave the job to early in the season after Motte's injury, he decided to try him out one more time and see if he could do the job. It was a mistake and opened him up to second guessing. As for Boggs and if he is beyond a reclamation...I just don't know. I don't think he can ever be a closer, especially with all of the blown saves this season in such a small amount of time. But, he was quite effective last year as a setup guy (2.21 ERA, 1.05 WHiP, 73.1 IP, 58 Ks) and has a plus fastball and slider. You would think he could still have value as a middle reliever and spot starter down the road. But, I never, EVER want to see him in the 9th inning with the lead again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 i will at least give matheny this: he hasnt batted the pitcher 8th yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HusakAttack Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 i will at least give matheny this: he hasnt batted the pitcher 8th yet.I say bat the pitcher first and get him out of the way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westy03 Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Career saves for Boggs prior to this season: 4 The comparison to Izzy and Franklin is ridiculous, at best. Boggs has no proven history as a closer. Those two had proven histories, and very successful seasons prior to their blowups. Back to the question posed by Skip...why is Matheny still utilizing Boggs in the 9th inning, especially with him being such a disaster so far this season? While I don't agree with it, I figure this was his attempt to give Boggs confidence. He knew he couldn't use Mujica last night due to using him in 4 straight games. Now, he could have used Rosenthal or allowed Maness to go out for the 9th. He could have even used Salas or Marte. However, as Boggs was the guy he gave the job to early in the season after Motte's injury, he decided to try him out one more time and see if he could do the job. It was a mistake and opened him up to second guessing. As for Boggs and if he is beyond a reclamation...I just don't know. I don't think he can ever be a closer, especially with all of the blown saves this season in such a small amount of time. But, he was quite effective last year as a setup guy (2.21 ERA, 1.05 WHiP, 73.1 IP, 58 Ks) and has a plus fastball and slider. You would think he could still have value as a middle reliever and spot starter down the road. But, I never, EVER want to see him in the 9th inning with the lead again! You don't attempt to gives Boggs confidence in the 9th inning of a 1 run game. You give him mop up innings to see if he can regain his control and actually get major league hitters out. I would of used Kelly, Rosenthal, or Maness last night and stayed away from Marte. Absolutely brutal managerial decision by Matheny last night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted May 31, 2013 Author Share Posted May 31, 2013 Yes they had their time but this is no different when you put a player in a position for failure-the end result is not going to change. I don't care if Boggs never saved a game or had 500 previous saves he has not been able to do the job just like Isringhausen and Franklin reached the point where they too could not get the job done. The manager has to wake up and set the team up for success not failure. Making the same move over and over that doesn't work shows an unwillingness to look out for the team's best interest. I believe you are misjudging the level of failure of Izzy and Frank compared to Boggs. Franklin wasn't used as much as you think in save situations in that last year where he was bad. Izzy was used a little more but Izzy had 206 saves over the 6 previous years with only 1 of those 6 years with an era over 3.0 and that was only mid 3's. How would you not try a little longer to get him straight. In addition he wasn't nearly as bad as Boggs has been. He had 12 saves that year and it looks like 8 situations where he blew a save or lost a game. Not great obviously, but it wasn't like he or Franklin were continually run out there to blow saves like you seem to believe they were. When a player has 3 years like Franklin, or 6 years of success like Izzy had, you'd be silly not to give them a little extra time and show some extra confidence in them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted May 31, 2013 Author Share Posted May 31, 2013 You don't attempt to gives Boggs confidence in the 9th inning of a 1 run game. You give him mop up innings to see if he can regain his control and actually get major league hitters out. I would of used Kelly, Rosenthal, or Maness last night and stayed away from Marte. Absolutely brutal managerial decision by Matheny last night. Not only that. You have a highly touted 21 year old pitcher being brought up what many believe was early due to having what less than career minor league starts under his belt. He pitches a fantastic 7 innings and you turn his 1 run lead over to Boggs with his 10 plus era and probably less than 25% career save percentage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbizzle09 Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 You don't attempt to gives Boggs confidence in the 9th inning of a 1 run game. You give him mop up innings to see if he can regain his control and actually get major league hitters out. I would of used Kelly, Rosenthal, or Maness last night and stayed away from Marte. Absolutely brutal managerial decision by Matheny last night. I agree completely. I was just trying to figure out the mindset of Matheny in that situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JettFlight5 Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 He only gets 25 men on the roster. He has to be able to use all of them. I was hoping Maness could finish it, but Matheny has done quite well. If it was Billiken basketball, that was running a final play for Sean Duff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HusakAttack Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 He only gets 25 men on the roster. He has to be able to use all of them. I was hoping Maness could finish it, but Matheny has done quite well. If it was Billiken basketball, that was running a final play for Sean Duff. Then it was the right move...any play for Duff is always the best play we can make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbizzle09 Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Apparently, Matheny has stated that Rosenthal and Mujica were both unavailable for last night's game as he wanted them to rest and did not want them even warming up. So, with that self-imposed handcuff in place, why not just let Maness start the 9th? Or, better yet, why force yourself into this position in the first place? Why not decide that this game Mujica will be unavailable but Rosenthal will still be available, and the next game, Rosenthal will not be available? Why sit out your 8th and 9th inning guys on the same day? It doesn't really make much sense...especially when you are starting a pitcher making his MLB debut. If that was his mindset going into last night, it almost comes across like he was just willing to lose the game before it was played. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Apparently, Matheny has stated that Rosenthal and Mujica were both unavailable for last night's game as he wanted them to rest and did not want them even warming up. So, with that self-imposed handcuff in place, why not just let Maness start the 9th? Or, better yet, why force yourself into this position in the first place? Why not decide that this game Mujica will be unavailable but Rosenthal will still be available, and the next game, Rosenthal will not be available? Why sit out your 8th and 9th inning guys on the same day? It doesn't really make much sense...especially when you are starting a pitcher making his MLB debut. If that was his mindset going into last night, it almost comes across like he was just willing to lose the game before it was played. And it would seem that Mujica could have pitched. While he had made three straight appearances going into last night's game, he's been so efficient that his pitch count has been very low. I believe he made six pitches the night before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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