kshoe Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 From the KC Star http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/s...rpqjjjjjjjjjjjo Missouri asked to respond to one major violation By MIKE DeARMOND The Kansas City Star Missouri officials have been asked by the NCAA to respond to one allegation that would be regarded as a major rules violation, according to sources that spoke with The Star on Monday. The allegation that men's basketball assistant coach Tony Harvey gave a sum of money to former MU basketball player Ricky Clemons – a dollar amount totaling less than $300, according to The Star's sources – is one of at least four possible rules violations included in a report of the NCAA's investigation of the men's basketball program. Missouri has not yet received the NCAA's report by registered mail, but it has received faxed and e-mail copies of the report, according to sources. Missouri athletic director Mike Alden told The Star on Monday afternoon that the school will not comment until it has received the official report. “I cannot comment on anything until we do,†Alden said. The report is considered to be the NCAA's findings in its investigation. Once Missouri receives the report officially, the school will have the opportunity to contest or agree to individual findings. A source indicated that it appeared likely the school will challenge the allegation that Harvey gave money to Clemons. Harvey, reached at the school, directed all comment to his attorney, Stu Brown. Brown did not return a phone call seeking comment. It is too early to speculate what punishment Missouri might receive. However, sources said the report did not allege a lack of institutional control, which usually brings a major sanction, such as being held out of the NCAA tournament or be denied appearances on television. Missouri could suffer recruiting sanctions, including loss of scholarships or recruiting privileges, the sources said. Also included in the report will be allegations of an unacceptable number of telephone calls placed by assistant coach Lane Odom to Clemons during his recruitment, and the fact that Missouri paid for an in-room movie Clemons watched at his hotel during his recruiting trip to Columbia. Both would be considered minor violations. NCAA rules, for instance, allow MU to pay for the hotel but consider a movie an extra benefit. An allegation that Missouri head coach Quin Snyder gave clothing to Clemons has been well publicized, having been included in a deposition Snyder gave to Boone County prosecutor Kevin Crane while Crane was investigating Clemons having choked former girlfriend Jessica Bunge. Clemons pleaded guilty to that crime, spent part of a 60-day judicial sentence in the Boone County Jail and was later dismissed from the MU basketball team. Snyder and Odom did not return phone messages seeking comment. Missouri officials, sources said, were studying the NCAA information on Monday and issued no immediate comment. There could be a public comment made, and possibly a press conference, as soon as Tuesday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjray Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 My reaction is that it sounds like Quinn shall escape major punishment ... maybe lose a scholarship for a few years. If the NCAA thinks Harvey gave Clemons LESS THAN $300, it won't be a big enough deal for a major sanction such as banned from post-season play for a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 Why is it that KC gets all the information on this topic before the PD runs is summary of the KC articles. Seems odd that PD gets beat everytime. The good that will come of this is that MU will have to be on their toes for awhile being very careful. This could cause Quinn to not get the top talent from around the country or least go after them. I really think this will not have a big impact on SLU recruiting since it looks like Brad has made good inroads here and has established himself as a better coach in general than Quinn - at least that is the general consensus not only on this board. Of course, Brad won't be able to keep all the top local talent but it looks like he will get his share and perhaps his choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 on the final result. Right now SLU's primary target is local talent in the st. louis metro area, while Mizzou's right now is more national. Depending on the hit Mizzou takes, they might have to recede back into missouri with their recruiting aims, which would mean more competition for SLU in the st. louis area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVanillaGorilla Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 Mid Year Checkup Wow with all the speculation from SLU fans all year long its very quiet when some actual facts come out. Looks like the NCAA had to come up with a lame infraction to try and save some face. All that looking around and this was all they could find? I suspect if the NCAA looked around at SLU as hard as they did at Mizzou they would drag a few things up as well. I suspect the major infraction will be overturned when Mizzou makes its case. But if not it looks like the worse case is a scholorship cut and some recruiting restrictions. Good thing Laurie can pay his own way. Now that the info is out look for TH to start looking a little more favorable at Mizzou. Notice how he keeps putting off his decision, hes been waiting all along just had to make sure he covered his bases. Well I am sure there are plenty of SLU fans POed about the ruling judging by how quiet everyone is. Truth is there never was much there. Just alot of sour grapes from billiken fans praying to gain some ground on the mighty Tigers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 >Mid Year Checkup > >Wow with all the speculation from SLU fans all year long its >very quiet when some actual facts come out. Looks like the >NCAA had to come up with a lame infraction to try and save >some face. All that looking around and this was all they >could find? I suspect if the NCAA looked around at SLU as >hard as they did at Mizzou they would drag a few things up >as well. > >I suspect the major infraction will be overturned when >Mizzou makes its case. But if not it looks like the worse >case is a scholorship cut and some recruiting restrictions. >Good thing Laurie can pay his own way. > >Now that the info is out look for TH to start looking a >little more favorable at Mizzou. Notice how he keeps putting >off his decision, hes been waiting all along just had to >make sure he covered his bases. > >Well I am sure there are plenty of SLU fans POed about the >ruling judging by how quiet everyone is. Truth is there >never was much there. Just alot of sour grapes from billiken >fans praying to gain some ground on the mighty Tigers. This is fine with me. It means Quin will keep his job!!! Good thing you have that clown signed through 2008! hahahaha!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 you have at least one MAJOR infraction. if i remember correctly, that was all norm had on him when the tiger$ were hit before with probation. you can wish all you want about everyone else being bad, but unfortunately for you tiger fan$, it just isnt true. few of the rest of us cheat, but if it makes you feel better to think otherwise fine. if i was one of the $upporters of tiger$ though, i would be spending all my extra dollars at wal-mart for getting you out of this me$$. of course though, it was probably the wal-mart boys that got you in trouble indirectly anyway, so i guess it is only right they buy there way out as well. still the "hey we only got one major infraction. that's pretty good!" reaction is hillarious. i would be very upset and embarrassed if that happened. tiger fan$ seem to think that is great. you guys ever have to take any ethics classes in school? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 i liked the part of his speech as well where he said we would be making up ground on his mighty tiger$. does he realize they had a worse record and went out of postseason before we did? math and logic must not be tigerprimate$ best subject. since it appears pretty obvious the billikens already passed the tiger$ last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 It's not like we play eachother. And it's not like we really battle over recruits either. We exist as two seperate entities for the most part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 the "hammer" you predicted for so long appears to have not come down as swiftly nor as hard as you would have liked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 how am i pretending i am not bitter? but in the same sense, a major infraction will garner punishment. i just think to pretend that is nothing and be happy about a major penalty on the way is sad. i can assure you if the billikens cheated and were hit with a major infraction and penalty, i would be furious, not relieved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVanillaGorilla Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 The lame "save the egg on our face" infraction the NCAA game Mizzou will probably be overturned. The NCAA just does not have any evidence but had to come up with something. Do I like that Mizzou was investigated by the NCAA no. But when you are a big time up a coming program with a big time recruiter and a new arena that is actually going to open up next year, Well People are out to get you, it come with the territory. Maybe one day the Bills will find that out. Also no one in their right mind thinks that SLU has passed Mizzou. Looking back on the past five years Mizzou went to 4 NCAA's an Elite 8 and a sweet 16. SLU went to 0. One year that the program underachieved does not mark a huge change. I can already hear the Billikens cry in December "wait till next year" Happens every year about that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 tiger$ 16-14 and a first round exit in the nit. billikens 19-13 and a second round exit in the nit. i am not sure what part of better you cant understand. the tiger$ were passed up. sorry you cant admit that. but you also are happy about being found guilty of cheating by the ncaa. so not much use trying to discuss with the likes of someone like yourself with such sterling morals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 SLU isn't really the point. The point is how having Quin on the bench benefits just about every program he plays. I'll give the guy his credit ... he appears to be one heck of a recruiter, violations notwithstanding. He just has no game control or bench coaching ability that I've seen so far. This is akin to the same qualities that a Pat Kennedy and a John Calipari seem to have ..... they can bring them in but can't seal the deal as far as winning goes. To have the talent Quin has and post the records Quin does is proof in the pudding. Quin's coaching ability negates or at least equalizes the talent on the floor. A few more underachieving years and the Tiger faithful will be calling for his head .... if he hangs around long enough to expose it. Major recruiting investigations, coupled with lots of minor violation/issues, divided by less-than-stellar seasons will be his undoing. What I find to be utterly hilarious is that giving a kid $300, which would appear to be not much in any book, is considered "minor" by the NCAA but paying what, $11.99, for an in-room movie is considered "extra." Good thing titles don't appear on the hotel bill or it might have been "Debbie Does Columbia" or "DeepThroatTreys." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 FACTS? The KC paper writes a story and its FACT. The PD writes a story and someone is out to get the Tigers. How does this work? The rest is pure speculation and for what its worth, anyone is entitled to that. Personnaly, I don't care where it all goes .... I'd rather play the game on the floor and go from there. But Quin is ducking us as most all the major in-state schools do when supposedly inferior smaller schools come calling. That will be the case most likely for all time. You've got to deal with it. As I said above, I'm all for you guys keeping Quin .... he may be able to recruit but he can't coach just yet. By the time he figures that out, he'll be out of the sticks looking for something better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlumniFan Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 ...go back to your Power Rangers show... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 Lets keep a little perspective here - just because the NCAA only listed a less than $300 payment as a charge against MU does not mean that there was not other payments. It just be that the NCAA could get enough evidence to prove it conclusively. I find the fact that some of you posting think that there was only one payment - that is like believing the girl who got pregnant when she says, I only did it once. As far as the allegation being overturned, I would think that the NCAA has the goods on this given how long they looked - time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheltiedave Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 As Johny Cochran said, "If the wardrobe is it, don't vote to acquit." RC had a glorious wardrobe at MOO, and he certainly didn't have the time to hold a summer job while he was on the 24 credit hour Rhodes scholar program designed for him. The guy did have a serious nice set of threads when he chose to wear them, so the NCAA decided they would throw a generic $300 gift out as a major violation. Even as the usual MOO paranoia rages, the usual MOO "everyone does it" gets trotted out again, and the usual MOO disclaimer that it is not as bad as it could be is tossed out, there are few stepping forward to advocate zero tolerance for playing on the edges of honesty. Quin has turned out to be somewhat of an Artful Dodger, and most MOO fans do not see the damage it is doing to their AD and national image. I, for one, will enjoy witnessing MOO underachieve through 2008, if Quin actually hangs on that long. Cheesy cow still needs to chew some cud and mull over SLU recruiting the St. Louis metro area. This strategy has gained us four top 5 large class players over the last three year period in Missouri, Illinois, and Indiana. Recruiting is a high risk/reward situation that is tied to the staff's ability to accurately assess character and skills. Fortunately for SLU, we have Brad's staff rather than Q's staff here. Unfortunately for MOO, the best juco PG and the third best juco PG in the land have attended MOO the past two years, and have both self destructed. The best high school PG in Missouri from a year ago was sitting on the pine for so long, surgical procedures were undertaken to seperate him from the bench. Looking forward to the first time Polk brings the ball up the court! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 >It's not like we play eachother. And it's not like we really >battle over recruits either. We exist as two seperate >entities for the most part. We recruit 1st team all-metro players... 4 out of 5. You recruit 2nd team all-metro players. You choose to recruit players who don't even have a high school diploma. Those are just a few of the differences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 First, it is a MAJOR infraction for a coach to give a player money. So Mizzery will be hit with something and Harvey will most likely be fired. I was going to add they won't be hit with what they deserve, but if you can't find the smoking gun, well what can you say? As Billiken fans we view Mizzery as the evil empire and of course want the worst for them, especially if they cheat. Their track record under Q-tip could be likened to the habitual juvenile defender who continues to get probation from a kindly judge. Q-tip is proving to be teflon coated. Granted they are all minor infractions, except the $300 payment, but even Mizzery fans would have to admit there sure have been a lot of them. Yes, I wanted them hit big, but it didn't happen. So now we can only revel in the knowledge they will continue to underachieve with all their big time recruits, which in a way is almost as good as them being banned from the NCAA's. Also, predict Q will not be long for Mizzery as eventually the powers that be will see his risk/reward ratio is way out of whack and can him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonwich Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 "Cheesy cow still needs to chew some cud and mull over SLU recruiting the St. Louis metro area. This strategy has gained us four top 5 large class players over the last three year period in Missouri, Illinois, and Indiana. Recruiting is a high risk/reward situation that is tied to the staff's ability to accurately assess character and skills. Fortunately for SLU, we have Brad's staff rather than Q's staff here." I'm sure Mizzou fans everywhere are upset that we couldn't get the st. louis area's best and had to "settle" for Jason Horton, Marshall Brown, and Glen Dandridge. and please explain to me (i'm having a little trouble comprehending what you wrote, you know me- always having trouble with that) what "four top 5 large class players" entails. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 You guys won a game by 1 point on a buzzer beater, and we lost a game by 1 point to the eventual champion. Your buzzer beater win also came against a team we beat by what...19? SLU hasn't passed anybody up....YET. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 Mizzou recruited outside of the state- Marshall Brown- 6’7†forward, L.B. Johnson High School (Austin, TX) ranked 42 by rivals.com Jason Horton- 6’0†point guard, Cedar Hill, TX ranked 59 by rivals.com Kalen Grimes- 6’8†power forward/center, Hazelwood Central High (Florissant, MO) ranked 63 by rivals.com Glen Dandridge- 6’6†guard/forward, Mt. Zion Christian Academy (Durham, NC) ranked 92 by rivals.com "We recruit 1st team all-metro players... 4 out of 5. You recruit 2nd team all-metro players. You choose to recruit players who don't even have a high school diploma." Postseason awards are not indicative of potental college success. Need evidence? Spencer Laurie. Care to be the first one to argue that Kevin Lisch, Tommie Liddell, Luke Meyer, or ANY recruits for that matter have a high school diploma when recruited? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 All I ever hear you guys say is that we (mizzou fans) are condescending and mean to you, and that's why you consider us the evil empire- and yet you do nothing but hurl petty insults at people who have a differing view than you. You guys do very little to convince the casual observer that your hatred of mizzou stems from anything other than penis-envy. You can say that you're the downtrodden fan who is beaten down and insulted by his "uninformed mizzou contemporaries," but ultimately you guys on here are just as mean as anyone you describe. You can turn it into a battle of "who was a jerk first," but ultimately SLU fans aren't proving to be particularly nice to Mizzou fans. I'll just wait here for sheltiedave to post an anecdote about having his daughter spat upon and threatened by a drunken mizzou fan to counter my point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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