Tonka Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 No, it's not from nutrition - it's from genetics. Players in general are bigger today. Look at the size of hockey players today, look at the size of basketball players today - kids are bigger and stronger than ever before. Not all players are on roids. It's funny, there are so many times when I say to somebody to not be naive, more people are on roids than people think - I probably say it just as many times the other way in that just because a player is strong, fast, etc. - doesn't mean they are juiced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 he won more world series games than any cardinal manager in my lifetime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted March 30, 2004 Author Share Posted March 30, 2004 I will go on record as the ONE LaRussa fan left in St. Louis. When we win the World Series this year, remember that I am not just jumping on the LaRussa bandwagon. I like Tony's style. His guys are disciplined and ready to play ball. He takes calculated risks, but he always has a logical explanation for the risks...For those whose criticize the pitcher batting 8 decision, check out the team's record that season before and after the move...From '88 through '95, Cardinals' teams were terrible. Since TLR has been in charge, we have been in a pennant race nearly every season...The coaching jobs TLR did his first year in St. Louis and two years ago were outstanding...Edgar doesn't bat leadoff because he is the second best RBI guy on the team...I believe that TLR's unpopularity in St. Louis has as much to do as his sophisticated disposition (as oppossed to Whitey's country boy disposition) as it does his managing skills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 while renteria might be a good rbi guy, so is rolen, edmunds, puhols, and sanders. i.e. there are others that can fill that role. leadoff though is a position that hasnt been handled as it should be for a long time in st louis and renteria has all the skills to fill it at a top level. so doesnt it make sense to give up a few rbis to get the table set? instead, too often puhols comes to the plate with no one on and 2 outs already. unacceptable. now if we had an outfielder or second basemen that hit 320 with a lot of walks and stolen bases, i would be fine with renteria batting elsewhere. but we dont and he has made no effort to find one. and dont give me womack. as far as we know thus far, womack cant even lift his arm above his head. and even when healthy, i dont think anyone confused tony womack with ichiro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schasz Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 Not too sure that I would agree and I do think that there are/were(I hope) plenty of baseball players juiced. In hockey there are still plenty of regular to even small guys who excel in the NHL. I see one of the best examples right here in Tampa as Martin St. Louis may be the POY in the NHL and he's a lil' bitty guy, but extremely talented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonka Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 I agree about players still being effective in hockey, but even the NHL'ers themself tell you the game is bigger, faster, and stronger than it's ever been. I guess we would have to define plenty. If you look at players across the board I bet you'd be surprised at how low it is. Then again, when it comes to cheating, any percentage would define plenty or a lot. Maybe the only sport not touched by the juice would be soccer. At least the big sports that is. (Skip, it's unlikely for me to even mention soccer, much less as a big sport - that was for you!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLouBlue Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 Actually on catchers, Houston has Ausmus who is close is not better than Matheny defensively. However he probably hits worse than Matheny, which is hard to do. I agree with your point though that the Cardinals have as good a chance as the Cubs or Astros this year. I do like though we are not the favorite coming in according to most of the national media. As far as managers, I think LaRussa is probably the better of the 3 between the teams. I certainly wouldn't take Williams over him and while Baker has had some success, he probably does at least as many coaching moves that drive me crazy as Tony does. Tony's teams seem to always step it up and make a good pennant run, just hope they can start the season hot for once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iggy Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 For the record, I'm also a big LaRussa fan. I think he may be the best manager in baseball. He'll surely be in the Hall of Fame someday. We're lucky to have him. I just wish more people realized it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonka Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 People just want to win I think and want results. Although people speak out of both sides of their mouth and demand success in some situations, but not others. I guess certain things trigger different emotions. I agree with most, this is LaRussa's last chance. I think the organization will try for a fresh start if things don't go well this year. I could be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 the reason i would take dusty baker over tony is that baker seems to know how to motivate players and players seem to want to play for him. not sure tony has more than the average motivational skills. of course i havent been in the locker room with each, but i base this on the fact that baker seems to get players playing above the levels they had played at on previous teams. larussa brings in a guy like tino or andres gallaraga and they go in the toilet. then they head somewhere else and return to previous form. of course tino has only had one game at tampa thus far, but he already has more hits this year than he had all of last year i think. ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 LaRussa may overmanage the BP at times, but Dusty Baker might not even know what a Bullpen is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SluSignGuy Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 He won a series (should have been 2, stupid call, he was OUT), and made it to 3 . Tony hasn't even accomplished that in his 8 years. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 for the worst manager you have ever seen, he sure makes it to the playoffs a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 I'll win the NL west and NL central, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 Scott Rolen needs to bring a lot more to the table this year imo...hits streaky not in clutch...expect more for his duckets. I have been told by someone who has seen at least 10 Spring games that he hasn't looked good this Spring at plate. Edgar Renteria is a stud.... Cards have too many K guys...Lankford, Rolen, Sanders, etc....who mash bad team pitching and can't hit the big boys...Pujals and Renteria exceptions...and Edmonds when he "wants" to..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 come on. laRUSSA has more high quality position players year in and year out in st louis than any of baker's teams ever did. and to be truthful, once you get by woods and prior, the cardinal staffs have been better than any staffs that baker ever had. no cant use that argument. now whitey, my gosh, he got to all those world series with st louis and kansas city with no name pitchers and his best players being defensive standouts ozzie smith and frank white. granted he did have batting average leader george brett at kc but that is about it. i would have loved to see what herzog could have done had he had an offensive lineup like the cardinals have now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesycow Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 You're honestly saying that the rotation of Wood-Prior-Zambrano-Clement-(fill in anyone you want here) is worse than Morris-Williams-anyone-anyone-anyone? That's just nuts. Last year the cubs had the better pitching staff by far. And you'd be surprised the difference that one Barry Bonds can make on your team. They had a petty bad team around bonds last year, and still managed to never be in 2nd place all year. Plus when Dusty had the reins, they had Jeff Kent as well. The numbers Bonds put up the years that dusty was in SF were sick. The fact that they were a wildcard one of those years is an injustice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 What do you think ... I'll take Gibby in 75 over Pedro in 2013. Even if Pedro was winning Gibby would just go over and kick his a$$ and win by default Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 I've noticed a lot of growt in Freddie Adu over the last 3-4 years ... as a matter of fact a couple of days ago I was watching a clip of him 4 years ago and he certainly seems much bigger. I think he may be on the roids ... you know how the younger players are ... anything for an edge. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 I'm not praising Tony ... actually I dislike him and his Numbers game very much ... He does not seem to have a feel for the game ... making changes based upon the numbers alone. I don't dislike Whitey ... in fact the opposite ... but he had his drawbacks also ... one of them being the inconsistency of his teams... but I would take Whitey right now over Tony I would like to see us get someone who is a good evaluator of young talent ... we need to rebuild our farm system ... I know we restructured it maybe we are taking the first step to improve. Tony's style of going with Vets will never be able to field a domninate team due to payroll restrictions ... we are never going to be in the top few in Baseball in payroll ... Vets make too much money and we end up being short somewhere else ... a better mix of quality youngsters will lead to a more balnced team Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 not reading very well today huh? i said once you get by woods and prior. i.e. the rest of the staff compared to the cardinals. right now i take puhols over bonds. ok bonds and kent vs puhols, renteria, edmunds and rolen? i think i take the cards four. looks like we have to agree to disagree again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 please correct me if i am wrong, because i know virtually nothing about soccer, but isnt the freddie adbo or whatever his name is only like 13 years old? so wouldnt he be a little bigger than he was 4 years ago? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 i think whitey's inconsistency was due to not having much talent. when he won, he got them to play above themselves to win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 So you think sometimes Edmonds doesn't want to hit? Edmonds is certainly a streaky hitter ... and I do not understand the fundamentals of a swing enough to make an educated contribution as to why ... but Jimmy gives his all every time he steps on the field ... to say otherwise is ridiculous. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 let's just say that jim edmunds sure seems to be injured or at least complaining of ailments a lot. i am sure that is where courtside is going on that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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