Hawk Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 @ussoccer Bob Bradley has been relieved of his duties as the head coach of the #USMNT. More info: bit.ly/r9TUJH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 @ussoccer Bob Bradley has been relieved of his duties as the head coach of the #USMNT. More info: bit.ly/r9TUJH Wow. That's surprising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLUBALLS Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Wow. That's surprising. Surprised at the timing but not surprised it happened. I think his tenure was good overall: 2007 Gold Cup, second place and great win vs Spain in Confed Cup in 2009, and good run in 2010 WC (disappointing a bit too; damn Charlie Davies). Many were ready for a change however. Hope they have a coach in place to step in; tough job ahead of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Surprised at the timing but not surprised it happened. I think his tenure was good overall: 2007 Gold Cup, second place and great win vs Spain in Confed Cup in 2009, and good run in 2010 WC (disappointing a bit too; damn Charlie Davies). Many were ready for a change however. Hope they have a coach in place to step in; tough job ahead of him. More surprised at the timing, but still a little surprised that the USSF made the move to dump Bradley. I agree with the move. Let's hope they don't take one step forward and then 2 steps back when they choose the next coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Surprised at the timing but not surprised it happened. I think his tenure was good overall: 2007 Gold Cup, second place and great win vs Spain in Confed Cup in 2009, and good run in 2010 WC (disappointing a bit too; damn Charlie Davies). Many were ready for a change however. Hope they have a coach in place to step in; tough job ahead of him. I don't get too excited about debating the merits of Bradley as a coach, but I am very excited about the prospects of watching the implementation of a new strategy for player selections, formations, etc. I also think it will be good to give a fair shake for the other defensive mids. Michael Bradley has done well, but it isn't good for him or the other mids in the player pool to automatically have 90 minutes/game effectively guaranteed to one guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizziken Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 An article I read said a further announcement would come tomorrow...hopefully to announce Klinsmann as the new head coach... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 I thought Bradley did some things well and others I didn't agree with. However, when talking soccer with many people even some who seem to have a clue, they seem to think a new coach will make things dramatically different. I wholeheartedly disagree. When the US produces a top 10 in the world type talent and can consistently have a few people ranked among the worlds top 50 or 75 players they'll be able to compete with the best. We can implement a more attacking allignment or mentality, but we better be careful what we wish for. In my mind the US has to play soccer like UB coached basketball .... safe. I don't know anything about the US development/youth programs but I do know when I watch our younger Nat'l teams I come away no more impressed with our overall skill level as I do with our current mens team. That is where the changes must start or continue if we want to really compete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 I thought Bradley did some things well and others I didn't agree with. However, when talking soccer with many people even some who seem to have a clue, they seem to think a new coach will make things dramatically different. I wholeheartedly disagree. When the US produces a top 10 in the world type talent and can consistently have a few people ranked among the worlds top 50 or 75 players they'll be able to compete with the best. We can implement a more attacking allignment or mentality, but we better be careful what we wish for. In my mind the US has to play soccer like UB coached basketball .... safe. I don't know anything about the US development/youth programs but I do know when I watch our younger Nat'l teams I come away no more impressed with our overall skill level as I do with our current mens team. That is where the changes must start or continue if we want to really compete. Our youth system is a mess. Hopefully, the fledgling developmental academies will be able to change this over the long-term. I agree with you, skip, i don't think a new coach is going to make us dramatically better tomorrow than we were with Bob yesterday. However, I think a better coach can make us better than we were under Bradley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonka Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Our youth system is a mess. Hopefully, the fledgling developmental academies will be able to change this over the long-term. I agree with you, skip, i don't think a new coach is going to make us dramatically better tomorrow than we were with Bob yesterday. However, I think a better coach can make us better than we were under Bradley. What's wrong with our youth system? I don't know a whole lot about soccer, but always wondered why the US Men's teams weren't better. I understand there are other major sports that dominate the landscape, but I often hear from people that the youth development in this country is not that good. I am just curious to what we are lacking and what can be done about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 The top player in the world Is about 5'7" and 140 lbs soaking wet, but yet we still want our youth soccer players to be big and strong. Until we learn that speed and strength are less important than balance, touch, and vision, we will continue to field teams anchored by guys like Gooch, Bradley, and Altidore. These are fine pkayers, but there is a reason these guys cannot crack the lineup of EPL, Ligue1, and La Liga clubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbofive Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 UNITED STATES MUTANT NINJA TURTLES! UNITED STATES MUTANT NINJA TURTLES!!! UNITED STATES MUTANT NINJA TURTLES!!!!! HOT CHICK PICTURE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 What's wrong with our youth system? I don't know a whole lot about soccer, but always wondered why the US Men's teams weren't better. I understand there are other major sports that dominate the landscape, but I often hear from people that the youth development in this country is not that good. I am just curious to what we are lacking and what can be done about it. Courtside had a really good post on this. I'll try to find it, but in essence (and as Nark hits on) the two biggies are (1) we worry about W's and L's not about developing skill and (2) the "pay to play" system is quite exclusive and excludes too many otherwise good soccer player under the guise of FYSA/ODP, which is nothing more than a money grab for the most part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Courtside had a really good post on this. I'll try to find it, but in essence (and as Nark hits on) the two biggies are (1) we worry about W's and L's not about developing skill and (2) the "pay to play" system is quite exclusive and excludes too many otherwise good soccer player under the guise of FYSA/ODP, which is nothing more than a money grab for the most part. The pay-to-play system puts us at a disadvantage when compared to other soccer nations who cover all of the costs and expenses of the youth talent in the top soccer pools. However, pay-to-play hasn't inhibited this country's continued dominance in basketball and baseball. I am a current youth coach, and I played for 9 years in grade school without ever understanding (or being correctly taught) the game. Now, after spending the better part of a decade studying and playing the game as an adult, I finally "get" the beautiful game. I now believe the biggest problem is the incorrect areas we emphasize. In top soccer nations, they don't worry about which 6-year old is big enough and strong enough to plow through other underdeveloped kids and score 10 goals in a meaningless game like we do. Instead, they teach the kids ball control, touch, passing, movement, and all of the other critical factors in the game. Meanwhile, we cheer and promote the kids who can kick the ball real hard and run real fast. In much of Europe and, more notably, Latin America, the kids spend countless hours just dribbling, passing, and messing around with a soccer ball much like so many inner-city US kids do with a basketball. By contrast, our kids only play a few hours a week in structured games and practices with an emphasis on winning tournaments. All of that being said, with as many kids who play the sport in the US, it is a statistical anomaly that we haven't produced at least a few top global players. I am certain it will happen in the next decade. If we do end up with a top player or two in the world, we should have enough athletes and solid talents complimenting the stars to really make some noise globally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clock_Tower Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 In top soccer nations, they don't worry about which 6-year old is big enough and strong enough to plow through other underdeveloped kids and score 10 goals in a meaningless game like we do. Instead, they teach the kids ball control, touch, passing, movement, and all of the other critical factors in the game. Meanwhile, we cheer and promote the kids who can kick the ball real hard and run real fast. Sure sounds like the soccer equivalent focusing exclusively focusing upon dunking the ball, excessive physical play in the lane and winning AAU games as opposed to hours and hours in the gym working on fundamentals and shooting 500 shots per day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 The pay-to-play system puts us at a disadvantage when compared to other soccer nations who cover all of the costs and expenses of the youth talent in the top soccer pools. However, pay-to-play hasn't inhibited this country's continued dominance in basketball and baseball. I am a current youth coach, and I played for 9 years in grade school without ever understanding (or being correctly taught) the game. Now, after spending the better part of a decade studying and playing the game as an adult, I finally "get" the beautiful game. I now believe the biggest problem is the incorrect areas we emphasize. In top soccer nations, they don't worry about which 6-year old is big enough and strong enough to plow through other underdeveloped kids and score 10 goals in a meaningless game like we do. Instead, they teach the kids ball control, touch, passing, movement, and all of the other critical factors in the game. Meanwhile, we cheer and promote the kids who can kick the ball real hard and run real fast. In much of Europe and, more notably, Latin America, the kids spend countless hours just dribbling, passing, and messing around with a soccer ball much like so many inner-city US kids do with a basketball. By contrast, our kids only play a few hours a week in structured games and practices with an emphasis on winning tournaments. All of that being said, with as many kids who play the sport in the US, it is a statistical anomaly that we haven't produced at least a few top global players. I am certain it will happen in the next decade. If we do end up with a top player or two in the world, we should have enough athletes and solid talents complimenting the stars to really make some noise globally. Ahhh... this is what I have been saying for years on here. Watch most any youth team play and it's a game of hustle, speed, strength, and a lot of scrambling for loose balls. Why? Because we don't have great touch or control of the ball. We favor guys with hustle and grit, things that are important, but can't be the main strength of a players game. Watch Spain play and see players that not only have great touch, but they know what they want to do before they even receive the ball. You don't see them scrambling for loose balls all the time because balls don't become loose balls as often. Control of the ball earns you time. It slows the game down and imo it all starts from there ... the ability to control the ball, the skill with the ball at your feet. It's why Freddie Adu still has a chance to be a very good player for us, as even though no one would say he's one of the best athletes in the mens program, he does have some of the best touch on the ball. Glad to see we have guys like David and sluballs coaching our kids as we get more people coaching kids that understand what is important, we will develop better players. This is where it starts. One of the problems have been that many coaches in the past have just been Dad's or Mom's that have no real experience and don't understand the game which leads them to coach with a football type mentality. As we have more Mom's and Dad's who have played the game coaching we'll have more coaches that understand why soccer is called the beautiful game and in turn coach to the skill of the game. In South America every coach played since they were 3 years old, they get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 The pay-to-play system puts us at a disadvantage when compared to other soccer nations who cover all of the costs and expenses of the youth talent in the top soccer pools. However, pay-to-play hasn't inhibited this country's continued dominance in basketball and baseball. I am a current youth coach, and I played for 9 years in grade school without ever understanding (or being correctly taught) the game. Now, after spending the better part of a decade studying and playing the game as an adult, I finally "get" the beautiful game. I now believe the biggest problem is the incorrect areas we emphasize. In top soccer nations, they don't worry about which 6-year old is big enough and strong enough to plow through other underdeveloped kids and score 10 goals in a meaningless game like we do. Instead, they teach the kids ball control, touch, passing, movement, and all of the other critical factors in the game. Meanwhile, we cheer and promote the kids who can kick the ball real hard and run real fast. In much of Europe and, more notably, Latin America, the kids spend countless hours just dribbling, passing, and messing around with a soccer ball much like so many inner-city US kids do with a basketball. By contrast, our kids only play a few hours a week in structured games and practices with an emphasis on winning tournaments. All of that being said, with as many kids who play the sport in the US, it is a statistical anomaly that we haven't produced at least a few top global players. I am certain it will happen in the next decade. If we do end up with a top player or two in the world, we should have enough athletes and solid talents complimenting the stars to really make some noise globally. I would question whether we have continued dominance in basketball and baseball, but I hear your point. However, I don't think it's fair to compare the development of soccer (or soccer players) in this country to the development of the other major sports. Pay-for-play is too exclusive when soccer needs to be inclusive as possible to grow/develop. Pay-for-play notwithstanding, your other points are dead on and probably more important to consider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 It's not just a soccer "problem." It's an American problem. The obsession with winning and keeping score carries over to youth development. Other countries don't happen to play as much of the other sports as they do soccer. However they've caught up in some of those other sports too. "Us vs them" carries over to athletic youth development. Creativity is not encouraged or emphasized.(Playing the game in unstructured environments at younger ages helps this) The focus has been on keeping score rather than all the other skill and team development needed. There are lots of politics too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonka Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 It's not just a soccer "problem." It's an American problem. The obsession with winning and keeping score carries over to youth development. Other countries don't happen to play as much of the other sports as they do soccer. However they've caught up in some of those other sports too. "Us vs them" carries over to athletic youth development. Creativity is not encouraged or emphasized.(Playing the game in unstructured environments at younger ages helps this) The focus has been on keeping score rather than all the other skill and team development needed. There are lots of politics too. I am in complete agreement with what you are saying here. But, I do think there has to be some balance. The "win at all cost" mentality is laughable. I see it with 6 year olds already in both soccer and baseball. I saw it at even younger ages with the parents in martial arts tournaments. It was never about developing the child's skill set, it was winning the big trophy. However, I do think there has to be some balance as sometimes I see it to the other extreme where it's reward everybody for everything and while that is great in theory, does it create the right motivations and set the kids up to not handle defeat later in life in this very tough world? I don't know. I don't have the answers and haven't been involved in any deep level of coaching with kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 I would question whether we have continued dominance in basketball and baseball, but I hear your point. However, I don't think it's fair to compare the development of soccer (or soccer players) in this country to the development of the other major sports. Pay-for-play is too exclusive when soccer needs to be inclusive as possible to grow/develop. Pay-for-play notwithstanding, your other points are dead on and probably more important to consider. If pay to play stops kids who want to play from playing it hurts. However, I believe it's more about mentality. Too much concern about winning from coaches and parents. In basketball we have coaches who rely on playing full court zone traps in 5th grade. It's what they do, it's all they do, and they win a lot at the very young ages because they can make a lot of steals and make the occasional lay-up. However, these same kids don't win 3-4 years later because they have never developed their skill level and other teams now have and that zone trap that worked against kids just learning to handle the ball doesn't work so well anymore. During our last rules meetings I tried to get the league to change where the 5th and 6th grade girls shot free-throws from because you can't teach them proper form when they need to jump forward and literally push the ball at the basket to get it there ... I was alone, coaches didn't care that they couldn't teach it properly. I was told they can learn that later. Literally 20 something coaches and I was alone even though everyone agreed the girls didn't have the strength to make it from there with proper form. I was amazed and to be honest bothered by it. I could go on with so many instances of styles of play that promote winning more than teaching. In my mind and maybe I'm wrong, time will tell, but I find it silly. Who cares if they win in 5th grade? Parents and coaches, that's who, and until they decide that skill development is more important than winning I think you will find that the USA continues to have great athletes, but athletes who lack the advanced skills. I just had to have an argument and discussion with one of our parents who is also a coach for us on why we don't rely on some of the tactics other teams do and why we don't have set plays. He says it is costing us games and he's right. However, I'm still not sure I got him to fully buy in to the concept that we only have so much practice time and I want to spend that time working on shooting form, ball handling, passing, movement, and seeing and reading the floor. It'll cost us from 3rd to 6th maybe even 7th grade, but that's ok, it's the long run that counts. In the end if he doesn't buy in, he won't coach for us. Check your ego at the door and teach. Period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Klinsman named as USMNT coach. Per some tweets, he'll have more control than any other USMNT coach ever had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 I am in complete agreement with what you are saying here. But, I do think there has to be some balance. The "win at all cost" mentality is laughable. I see it with 6 year olds already in both soccer and baseball. I saw it at even younger ages with the parents in martial arts tournaments. It was never about developing the child's skill set, it was winning the big trophy. However, I do think there has to be some balance as sometimes I see it to the other extreme where it's reward everybody for everything and while that is great in theory, does it create the right motivations and set the kids up to not handle defeat later in life in this very tough world? I don't know. I don't have the answers and haven't been involved in any deep level of coaching with kids. Don't misunderstand what I am saying. I am not in favor of handing out trophies. We are talking grade school ages up to high school. I don't believe in any trophies for those ages. That's different than handing everyone a trophy. I don't believe in keeping score at the younger ages. I do believe in small sided games where every kid gets plentiful opportunity to develop on the ball skill through reps and creativity. There's nothing more silly to me than seeing 20 little kids chase a ball because their parents are too interested in keeping score and having a winner and loser. There is plenty of time for that. Kids need to like/love the game first. It's like tennis for example. Little kids playing on a big court with big racket never hitting the ball doesn't work for most. However small side games where kids use smaller lite rackets and learn basic skills, familiarity with the court, and learn to love being out there. There's plenty of time to fight and compete using the skills you learned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLUBALLS Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Klinsman named as USMNT coach. Per some tweets, he'll have more control than any other USMNT coach ever had. First thing to be said is, if anyone thinks he's going to suddenly take US soccer to another level, check your expectations at the door. Klinsman will not control the development of youth soccer or the players he has on his national team. Second, I hope that if part of the reason Bob Bradley was let go was to bring some fresh eyes to the selection process, then we should be ready to see some disappointing results until Klinsmann finds the right group to fit his style. Third, overall, I am hopeful and excited to see what his experience as a player and coach of Germany will bring to the table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Metzinger Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Do you think Sorber will be retained? Anyone have any updates on assistants? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 First thing to be said is, if anyone thinks he's going to suddenly take US soccer to another level, check your expectations at the door. Klinsman will not control the development of youth soccer or the players he has on his national team. Second, I hope that if part of the reason Bob Bradley was let go was to bring some fresh eyes to the selection process, then we should be ready to see some disappointing results until Klinsmann finds the right group to fit his style. Third, overall, I am hopeful and excited to see what his experience as a player and coach of Germany will bring to the table. I think the best we can hope for is that the USSF listens to Klinsman and implements some of his ideas. I agree, he will not be able to control the development of youth soccer, but maybe he can influence it. The good thing with Klinsman is his familiarity with the US player pool relative to other non-MLS coaches (as compared to a Lippi or Bielsa, for example). I don't think the integration will take as long as it would under other foreign coaches. I'm excited to see how he views/rates the guys in our player pool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Do you think Sorber will be retained? Anyone have any updates on assistants? Haven't heard any updates on assistants, but Claudio Reyna's name has been floated around some. No clue about Sorber, but just based on the nature of coaching changes, I would imagine that Sorber is gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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