OT: It is NOT...

[moytoy12]

Worst.thread.ever.

Also, not surprised that MB73 has taken an active role. I'm sure glad ESPN let that "black guy" have a say on PTI. I'm surprised they let the "black guy" out of his cage, eh MB?

I wish it were the '50's and we could beat our women without being splashed all over Cops. What is it with this everyone is equal b.s.?

MB, you are a moron. A village in WV is missing an idiot. you should get home.

[slufanskip]

How is the LPGA doing these days? By and large, no one in the U.S. has ever cared about soccer, men or women, outside of the world cup and olympics. The LPGA was doing pretty well about 10 years ago. When the established women's pro sports are struggling, you can't expect an upstart league to survive.

Are you agreeing or disagreeing? I didn't say I expected anything. What I said was I was surprised and disapointed that young sports oriented girls and their families don't make a more conscious effort to support the women's pro leagues. I would put plenty of the blame on them. Until the families with girls who play sports care enough to support the current pro leagues, the girls opportunities will end at college.

I also don't get why people are so against watching them.

[billiken_roy]

Are you agreeing or disagreeing? I didn't say I expected anything. What I said was I was surprised and disapointed that young sports oriented girls and their families don't make a more conscious effort to support the women's pro leagues. I would put plenty of the blame on them. Until the families with girls who play sports care enough to support the current pro leagues, the girls opportunities will end at college.

I also don't get why people are so against watching them.

i completely agree with skip. what is really entertainment is watching competition and watching effort and execution. if supreme athleticism was all that matters, why arent more of you just nba fans? or why arent you all duke and north carolina college fans?

[MB73]

Worst.thread.ever.

Also, not surprised that MB73 has taken an active role. I'm sure glad ESPN let that "black guy" have a say on PTI. I'm surprised they let the "black guy" out of his cage, eh MB?

I wish it were the '50's and we could beat our women without being splashed all over Cops. What is it with this everyone is equal b.s.?

MB, you are a moron. A village in WV is missing an idiot. you should get home.

Wow. Talk about overreacting. You sound like a deeply disturbed, frustrated, uh, guy.

[courtside]

i completely agree with skip. what is really entertainment is watching competition and watching effort and execution. if supreme athleticism was all that matters, why arent more of you just nba fans? or why arent you all duke and north carolina college fans?

Part of it is sexism, and part of it is not. If men were going to watch pro hoops, they will watch the NBA. If men were going to watch D-1 college hoops, they'll watch the men. To the average male, it's all about level of play. They know women D-1 can't compete with men D-1, and WNBA can't compete with NBA, etc...so they will go see and turn on the higher level within that level. The average male knows WNBA isn't the highest pro sports level. When all one watches is the highest level and all one thinks about is the highest level...going to a lower level of ability isn't on their radar. The NBA has its challenges etc...but it is a viable league. People watch it and people go to games enough to make it a viable league with big money. And, the ones who don't aren't turning to the WNBA. They turn to college men etc...not college women because are used to a level of play.

The average male only sees level of play within a category. Changing that mindset from the start is more of the issue and the discussion. As long as that is all men care about, all you'll see are debates about at what level could a women's team hang with what level of a men's team.

As previously mentioned, the average woman supports men's teams more than women's teams. There are always exceptions, but this is the general average reality.

[dlarry]

This year's Chaminade team would pound the U. Conn women by 20, 30 points.

Beal would score at will...he'd score 50+ points. On defense, the Chaminade boys would presure U Conn with speed and strength that they are unaccustomed to dealing with... no open shots.

Agree.

Besides Beal scoring at will the size difference would be to much to handle.

If UCONN started 2 centers and 3 forwards they would go 6'5, 6'3, 6'3, 6'2, 6'1. A good HS boys team would start people the same height at the guard position. And this would leave UCONN no ball handlers.

I don't know much about Chaminades team but I would bet they have a center well over 6'5.

A good HS boys teams guards would be quicker and able to back down the women. The boys teams center would be unstoppable.

[BACKHANDtheRICAN]

I'd rather watch Men's MLS soccer than women's college basketball. Gimme a 0-0 mens soccer game any day of the week over some chicks shooting layups.

[Quality Is Job 1]

Agree.

Besides Beal scoring at will the size difference would be to much to handle.

If UCONN started 2 centers and 3 forwards they would go 6'5, 6'3, 6'3, 6'2, 6'1. A good HS boys team would start people the same height at the guard position. And this would leave UCONN no ball handlers.

I don't know much about Chaminades team but I would bet they have a center well over 6'5.

A good HS boys teams guards would be quicker and able to back down the women. The boys teams center would be unstoppable.

Right, but those of us who think that way are sexist?

[doowop]

Right, but those of us who think that way are sexist?

Not sexist, just incorrect. How many high schools have both guards who are 6'5" or 6'4". Many of those players play forward or center. On second thought, SOME ARE sexist. As John Wooden once said, when you watch women ( the top level women ) you see fundamentally sound basketball, the way it was meant to be played. This is all I have to say on this topic.

[dlarry]

Right, but those of us who think that way are sexist?

Hey I think women should be allowed to play sports as long as it doenst interfere with their household chores and they are home in time to cook me dinner.

[MB73]

Not all boys high school teams would beat U Conn girls, but this yr's Chaminade team would. Easily.

RE: Woodens quote about womens basketball, think, use your head... a man in Wooden's position, when asked, has to say the politically correct thing, so his so called quote is virtually meaningless.

One hoosier said that Wooden was a known cheater... how do you know U. Conn girls program is 100% clean? You cannot know that.

This is reality, not sexism. There is no market for it. Again, SLU men are in the 100's in RPI, draw 6,500, the same RPI in women get 300 or so per game. Mostly relatives and close friends. Fine, have fun.

Do women follow womens basketball? Go to games? Go to bars to watch games on TV? Shoot the sh*t about it? Its their own fault, then.

So, good for U. Conn, they achieved great things in women's basketball, but it is not comperable to the UCLA men's record, there are far fewer decent women's programs out there. U. Conn did not even play Tennessee in their famous run. (I sure would not smart off to that Tennessee head coach, by the way...)

[courtside]

Not all boys high school teams would beat U Conn girls, but this yr's Chaminade team would. Easily.

RE: Woodens quote about womens basketball, think, use your head... a man in Wooden's position, when asked, has to say the politically correct thing, so his so called quote is virtually meaningless.

One hoosier said that Wooden was a known cheater... how do you know U. Conn girls program is 100% clean? You cannot know that.

This is reality, not sexism. There is no market for it. Again, SLU men are in the 100's in RPI, draw 6,500, the same RPI in women get 300 or so per game. Mostly relatives and close friends. Fine, have fun.

Do women follow womens basketball? Go to games? Go to bars to watch games on TV? Shoot the sh*t about it? Its their own fault, then.

So, good for U. Conn, they achieved great things in women's basketball, but it is not comperable to the UCLA men's record, there are far fewer decent women's programs out there. U. Conn did not even play Tennessee in their famous run. (I sure would not smart off to that Tennessee head coach, by the way...)

And when UCLA men had their streak there were far fewer decent men's programs. The UCLA streak is not better than the UConn streak. It's just different.

[kevinfootes]

Men's golf is Tiger Woods and Tiger Woods is men's golf,...to the casual millions of golf fans. So, I would not agree about "many reasons." Die hard golf fans might want to say different but up until now that's the case.

As for soocer, men. The interest is there and has been there in the past. The ability to watch the best players in the world play on a weekly basis has not. The casual soccer fan in the U.S. Wants to see the best leagues in the world which mostly are played in Europe. MLS is a long term baby steps process. And the league wants every team to play in soccer specific 20k stadiums, not the 50k stadiums. KC just built there's for example. Most teams now have them and all new ones need one. Seattle has been a unique successful exception. They partner with the Seahawks for marketing, pr, and other workers and they use cross over staff and it works well. Tv money is going up from about $12 million to anywhere from $20-40 million in the next contracts for MLS.

"Up until now that's not the case"??? Men's golf is certainly driven by Tiger Woods today, but there is a LONG history of good ratings before he started playing. Have you ever heard of Jack Nicklaus, Tom Watson, Arnold Palmer, etc.? How long do you think golf has been on network tv?

I disagree that the casual soccer fan in the U.S. wants to watch European soccer leagues on any kind of regular basis at this point. The casual soccer fan wants to watch the world cup and olympics.

The league NOW wants teams to play in soccer specific venues. If you read what I posted, when the league started they insisted on a capacity of > 50K. At that point there was talk around town of exapnding the soccer park to try to land a team, but the league insisted on places like the Meadowlands, Arrowhead, etc. I agree that they learned their lesson and changed the path, which is good.

[kevinfootes]

Are you agreeing or disagreeing? I didn't say I expected anything. What I said was I was surprised and disapointed that young sports oriented girls and their families don't make a more conscious effort to support the women's pro leagues. I would put plenty of the blame on them. Until the families with girls who play sports care enough to support the current pro leagues, the girls opportunities will end at college.

I also don't get why people are so against watching them.

I'm not sure "blame" is the right way to phrase this. People just weren't interested.

[kevinfootes]

i completely agree with skip. what is really entertainment is watching competition and watching effort and execution. if supreme athleticism was all that matters, why arent more of you just nba fans? or why arent you all duke and north carolina college fans?

A senior bowling league can have competition, effort, and execution. So can anything else the Sklar brothers might watch.

[courtside]

"Up until now that's not the case"??? Men's golf is certainly driven by Tiger Woods today, but there is a LONG history of good ratings before he started playing. Have you ever heard of Jack Nicklaus, Tom Watson, Arnold Palmer, etc.? How long do you think golf has been on network tv?

I disagree that the casual soccer fan in the U.S. wants to watch European soccer leagues on any kind of regular basis at this point. The casual soccer fan wants to watch the world cup and olympics.

The league NOW wants teams to play in soccer specific venues. If you read what I posted, when the league started they insisted on a capacity of > 50K. At that point there was talk around town of exapnding the soccer park to try to land a team, but the league insisted on places like the Meadowlands, Arrowhead, etc. I agree that they learned their lesson and changed the path, which is good.

The highest rated golf event in the past four years without Tiger Woods is 3.75 a few years ago when Tom Watson was threatening late in a major. Dozens and dozens and dozens of events with ratings in the ones and twos...vs double and triple the ratings when Woods competes. Not even close. And, these ratings have been well after he rejuvenated ratings and interest to save golf from being a fading old man with plaid pants game.

MLS originally played its games in existing stadiums in its markets. Most of these were American Football Stadiums. They did this because they had to and not wanted to do so. The plan was to implement 20k soccer specific stadiums in all markets and it still is the plan.

What I said was the casual soccer fan wants to see the sport at its highest level, similar to other sports. The highest level in terms of league play is not in the U.S. Ratings are higher for the early morning European league games vs the better time of day, prime time MLS games. The people have spoken. Of course interest in the World Cup and Olympics will be higher, just as they are higher than a lot of other sports events too.

[moytoy12]

Ratings are higher for the early morning European league games vs the better time of day, prime time MLS games. The people have spoken. Of course interest in the World Cup and Olympics will be higher, just as they are higher than a lot of other sports events too.

Or it could mean there are more European league (especially EPL) fans (something different than a casual fan) in the U.S. than there are casual soccer fans that tune into MLS games. I think we're talking about 2 different sets of ppl when we compare European league viewership v. MLS viewership.

[doowop]

And when UCLA men had their streak there were far fewer decent men's programs. The UCLA streak is not better than the UConn streak. It's just different.

I changed my mind. I will comment further after reading this statement. Courtside, the younger guys who respond on this board have no idea how much easier it was to have a streak like UCLA had compared to today. There were not nearly as many good coaches and most conferences had maybe two above average teams at the most. All was not on the up and up with UCLA recruiting either. One booster was a known rules violater. Bill Walton said Wooden should have known but Wooden said he just looked the other way. But regardless, what you said Courtside is true and made a big difference in helping the UCLA streak. The Tennessee women have not had the same calibre team during the UCONN streak that they used to have and have lost to some teams that were not highly ranked. UCONN beat teams much better then Tennessee has been the last two years. They beat Duke, North Carolina, Stanford, Baylor and others. Baylor will be the team to beat the rest of the season because they now have the services of Destiny Williams, one of the best newcomers in the country, a transfer from Illinois by way of Michigan. By the way, there was no political correctiveness when Wooden made his statement. He did not say things to just to make people feel good.

[MB73]

I changed my mind. I will comment further after reading this statement. Courtside, the younger guys who respond on this board have no idea how much easier it was to have a streak like UCLA had compared to today. There were not nearly as many good coaches and most conferences had maybe two above average teams at the most. He did not say things to just to make people feel good.

Nice Try.

Yeah, UCLA played some real pushovers. Here is a breakdown of the teams UCLA beat during the streak:

6 times - California, Oregon, Oregon State, Stanford, USC, Washington, Washington State

4 times - Notre Dame

2 times - Cal. St. Barbara, Chicago Loyola, Iowa, Long Beach St., San Francisco

1 time - Arizona St., Arkansas, Bradley, BYU, Citadel, Denver, Drake, Florida State, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa St., Kansas, Louisville, Maryland, Memphis, Michigan, NC State, Ohio, Ohio St., Pacific, Pittsburgh, Providence, Santa Clara, SMU, St. Bonaventure, TCU, Texas, Texas A&M, Villanova, Weber St., Wisconsin, Wyoming

Should I list the NBA starts they played against? How about the Memphis State team they beat in St. Louis in '73, who was on that team?

And Wooden probably laughed his ass off about the girls back then behind closed doors, as did his whole team. Reality. Back then the women's team were REALLY bad.

But congrats to the U. Conn women!

[doowop]

Yeah, UCLA played some real pushovers. Here is a breakdown of the teams UCLA beat during the streak:

6 times - California, Oregon, Oregon State, Stanford, USC, Washington, Washington State

4 times - Notre Dame

2 times - Cal. St. Barbara, Chicago Loyola, Iowa, Long Beach St., San Francisco

1 time - Arizona St., Arkansas, Bradley, BYU, Citadel, Denver, Drake, Florida State, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa St., Kansas, Louisville, Maryland, Memphis, Michigan, NC State, Ohio, Ohio St., Pacific, Pittsburgh, Providence, Santa Clara, SMU, St. Bonaventure, TCU, Texas, Texas A&M, Villanova, Weber St., Wisconsin, Wyoming

Should I list the NBA starts they played against? How about Memphis State team they beat in St. Louis in '73, who was on that team.

And Wooden probably laughed his ass off about the girls back then behind closed doors, as did his whole team. Reality. Back then the women's team were REAL bad.

What kind of records did these teams have? The best teams they played back then were Houston, Notre Dame, and North Carolina State. They lost all three games. Yes, women'steams were really bad then as were men's teams when they first started playing basketball years ago. The women's programs are just approaching where men were many years ago. Should i list the WNBA stars they played against? MB73, you don't know nearly as much as you pretend toknow.

[courtside]

Or it could mean there are more European league (especially EPL) fans (something different than a casual fan) in the U.S. than there are casual soccer fans that tune into MLS games. I think we're talking about 2 different sets of ppl when we compare European league viewership v. MLS viewership.

I'm not discounting the different types of soccer fans in U.S. Suburban upper middle class, 1st or 2nd generation immigrants, etc...and so on....my point is still the same.

The average soccer fan in the U.S. Wants to see the best level of play. The very best Americans play in Europe, as do the very best South Americans, Africans, etc...and fans throughout the world follow these leagues the most.

If you go to...say...Central America, soccer fans there follow the European Leagues most. In particular, Real Madrid and FC Barcelona the most in terms of club teams...however you'll also see lots of fans of the non-Hispanic location based European teams as well. ...If you go to...say...Chicago Fire games in MLS...there is a large portion of Hispanic supporters. It's their local team. And as the level of play increases, so does their support. They want to go in person to support the local team and for their fandom of the sport. .......U.S. Immigrants from Europe will support their European leagues and teams, not just because that's what they know or came from...but also because those leagues are the best in the world. If that ever changed those fans would support the local American leagues more...I.e. MLS...etc...

I wouldn't also discount the intelligence of the average American soccer fan. They know the best leagues are in Europe and that's what they watch the most. MLS is a distant second. As is the case with many other start up leagues, lots more bandwagon fans out there than pioneers.

It's still a matter of following the best.

[jbizzle09]

Nice Try.

Yeah, UCLA played some real pushovers. Here is a breakdown of the teams UCLA beat during the streak:

6 times - California, Oregon, Oregon State, Stanford, USC, Washington, Washington State

4 times - Notre Dame

2 times - Cal. St. Barbara, Chicago Loyola, Iowa, Long Beach St., San Francisco

1 time - Arizona St., Arkansas, Bradley, BYU, Citadel, Denver, Drake, Florida State, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa St., Kansas, Louisville, Maryland, Memphis, Michigan, NC State, Ohio, Ohio St., Pacific, Pittsburgh, Providence, Santa Clara, SMU, St. Bonaventure, TCU, Texas, Texas A&M, Villanova, Weber St., Wisconsin, Wyoming

Should I list the NBA starts they played against? How about the Memphis State team they beat in St. Louis in '73, who was on that team?

And Wooden probably laughed his ass off about the girls back then behind closed doors, as did his whole team. Reality. Back then the women's team were REALLY bad.

But congrats to the U. Conn women!

Why make this statement? No need to project your own feelings onto Wooden and the UCLA players of the 60s and 70s.

[courtside]

Nice Try.

Yeah, UCLA played some real pushovers. Here is a breakdown of the teams UCLA beat during the streak:

6 times - California, Oregon, Oregon State, Stanford, USC, Washington, Washington State

4 times - Notre Dame

2 times - Cal. St. Barbara, Chicago Loyola, Iowa, Long Beach St., San Francisco

1 time - Arizona St., Arkansas, Bradley, BYU, Citadel, Denver, Drake, Florida State, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa St., Kansas, Louisville, Maryland, Memphis, Michigan, NC State, Ohio, Ohio St., Pacific, Pittsburgh, Providence, Santa Clara, SMU, St. Bonaventure, TCU, Texas, Texas A&M, Villanova, Weber St., Wisconsin, Wyoming

Should I list the NBA starts they played against? How about the Memphis State team they beat in St. Louis in '73, who was on that team?

And Wooden probably laughed his ass off about the girls back then behind closed doors, as did his whole team. Reality. Back then the women's team were REALLY bad.

But congrats to the U. Conn women!

And...the UCLA men's streak is still not better than the UConn women's streak. It's just different.

[courtside]

Why make this statement? No need to project your own feelings onto Wooden and the UCLA players of the 60s and 70s.

Insecurity and fear.

[MB73]

Insecurity and fear.

No, its called "reality".

Facts are facts, the truth is there is no interest in it...not a good product to watch, and not comperable competition. Good for the players and good for the parents to watch.

Have any of you even been to a women's NCAA Championship? Or just your daughters middle school games?

I support the men's tourney.

Among others, I was THERE in 1973:

UCLA pounded Memphis State at The Arena in St. Louis.

Walton with 21 of 22 FG's. Five of the UCLA cheerleaders came with us to Bogarts after the game to hang out; in their UCLA cheerleader outfits. It was remarkable, surreal.