OT: World Cup picks

[slufanskip]

That ref isn't new to the scene by any means. But, I do agree, terrible call.

I've been looking on line and can't find an explanation. It seems to me an official should explain a call, especially a call that takes back a goal to the team captain. Donovan said he wouldn't give an explantation.

[slufanskip]

Your assertion that Slovenia will have 2 is incorrect. Slovenia already has 4. Right now, before England plays Algeria, the standings are:

Slovenia 4

US 2

England 1

Algeria 0

Presuming an england win, that would make the standings:

England 4 (assuming they win by more than 1)

Slovenia 4

US 2

Algeria 0

That means we would need either England to beat slovenia while we beat Algeria:

England 7

US 5

Slovenia 4

Algeria 0

Or we beat Algeria and they draw:

England 5

Slovenia 5

US 5

Algeria 0

Then it would all come down to goal differential, so we'd need to win by more than 1 to be safe.

If we beat Algeria we just need any victory in the England vs Slovenia game to advance. If it's a tie it will be goal differential and right now we don't know whether 2 or 1 would be needed. It depends on the outcome of the Algeria vs England game. If England wins by 1 and we beat Algeria by 1 we'll be tied and most goals scored will advance

If England and Algeria tie and we beat Algeria we move on with a Slovenia vs England tie or a Slovenia or England win. If Slovenia wins they are 1st in our group we are 2nd. If England wins we are tied with them for 1st and goal dif 1st tie breaker, total goals scored 2nd tie breaker.

If England and Algeria tie it would be possible for us to move on with a tie to Algeria

It will be at least a little more clear after England vs Algeria ends.

[cheesycow]

If we beat Algeria we just need any victory in the England vs Slovenia game to advance. If it's a tie it will be goal differential and right now we don't know whether 2 or 1 would be needed. It depends on the outcome of the Algeria vs England game. If England wins by 1 and we beat Algeria by 1 we'll be tied and most goals scored will advance

True, I guess I have a perception of slovenia that would suggest they can't beat england but clearly that's not true. It's nice to know we have our destiny in our hands though.

[strozier]

From the NY Times today:

[Westy03]

England will win out out and we will take care of Algeria and make it through to the next round.

[SShoe]

True, I guess I have a perception of slovenia that would suggest they can't beat england but clearly that's not true. It's nice to know we have our destiny in our hands though.

Right, if we beat Algeria, we're probably moving on. If we beat them by two or more goals, we're almost definitely moving on.

[strozier]

Right, if we beat Algeria, we're probably moving on. If we beat them by two or more goals, we're almost definitely moving on.

We've gotta start off right and score a couple before intermission. These come-from-behind draws are exhilarating, but not what Bob Bradley wants.

[For-DaLove]

Algeria isn't going to roll over for us. They're looking pretty good right now against England. Tied 0-0 at half.

[slufanskip]

There is still a lot left to be decided. Our fate isn't entirely in our own hands yet. I'll list the possibilities after this match for those who aren't sure.

[Pistol]

My mistake: I meant England 4, Slovenia 4, US 2, Algeria 0. That doesn't change my scenario, though. If we beat Algeria and there is a winner in the England-Slovenia game, we advance. If they tie, chaos ensues, and we need to beat Algeria by 2 goals or more because that would give us the GD tiebreaker over Slovenia. The really crazy part is that the schedule I just looked at shows US-Algeria and England-Slovenia at the same time (10/9 Central) Wednesday morning. Going to be a tense 2 hours.

Then again, all of this is meaningless if Algeria ties or beats England. No score through 59....

[cheesycow]

My mistake: I meant England 4, Slovenia 4, US 2, Algeria 0. That doesn't change my scenario, though. If we beat Algeria and there is a winner in the England-Slovenia game, we advance. If they tie, chaos ensues, and we need to beat Algeria by 2 goals or more because that would give us the GD tiebreaker over Slovenia. The really crazy part is that the schedule I just looked at shows US-Algeria and England-Slovenia at the same time (10/9 Central) Wednesday morning. Going to be a tense 2 hours.

Then again, all of this is meaningless if Algeria ties or beats England. No score through 59....

Yeah they do the 3rd game at the same time so no one knows the result of the other game beforehand.

[SShoe]

My mistake: I meant England 4, Slovenia 4, US 2, Algeria 0. That doesn't change my scenario, though. If we beat Algeria and there is a winner in the England-Slovenia game, we advance. If they tie, chaos ensues, and we need to beat Algeria by 2 goals or more because that would give us the GD tiebreaker over Slovenia. The really crazy part is that the schedule I just looked at shows US-Algeria and England-Slovenia at the same time (10/9 Central) Wednesday morning. Going to be a tense 2 hours.

Then again, all of this is meaningless if Algeria ties or beats England. No score through 59....

Still no score through 83. An England tie vs. Algeria would be great for us.

[billikenfan05]

The traditional powers have been awful in this world cup save for maybe Brazil but I haven't seen any of them.

[SShoe]

The traditional powers have been awful in this world cup save for maybe Brazil but I haven't seen any of them.

Argentina's been very good.

Nice, game ends in a tie.England seems like they're often overrated. A win vs. Algeria and we advance.

[Pistol]

Argentina's been very good.

Nice, game ends in a tie.England seems like they're often overrated. A win vs. Algeria and we advance.

Simply amazing. Now the group standings:

Slovenia 4

USA 2

England 2

Algeria 1

US has no goal differential on England because of 2 ties apiece, but leads in total goals 3-1. A win puts us in the next round no matter what. A loss and we still have a chance if Slovenia wins and England doesn't score twice. A tie and we advance if England loses, we don't if England wins, and we probably do if England ties (they'll need to score 2 more goals than us to even it up).

This is madness. I love the World Cup.

[For-DaLove]

Every team controls their own destiny! Wednesday is going to be awesome. Algeria and Slovenia could be the 2 teams to advance from this group, now that's crazy.

[Westy03]

England will win out out and we will take care of Algeria and make it through to the next round.

Nostradamus I am not...

Wow England looked dreadful for much of the game. We win and we are in. I hope we start of the game with the same energy we ended with today, we steam rolled Slovenia in the second half.

[For-DaLove]

Simply amazing. Now the group standings:

Slovenia 4

USA 2

England 2

Algeria 1

US has no goal differential on England because of 2 ties apiece, but leads in total goals 3-1. A win puts us in the next round no matter what. A loss and we still have a chance if Slovenia wins and England doesn't score twice. A tie and we advance if England loses, we don't if England wins, and we probably do if England ties (they'll need to score 2 more goals than us to even it up).

This is madness. I love the World Cup.

No...if we lose we're out. That'd give Algeria 4 points, which outside of a England victory, would send them to the next round.

[Ron Rimmerman]

Simply amazing. Now the group standings:

Slovenia 4

USA 2

England 2

Algeria 1

US has no goal differential on England because of 2 ties apiece, but leads in total goals 3-1. A win puts us in the next round no matter what. A loss and we still have a chance if Slovenia wins and England doesn't score twice. A tie and we advance if England loses, we don't if England wins, and we probably do if England ties (they'll need to score 2 more goals than us to even it up).

This is madness. I love the World Cup.

A loss would not get us in at all bc that would put Algeria at 4 and Slovenia at 4(+), so we would be eliminated. Good analysis otherwise.

Metz, that picture looks like it's from nydailynews.com, not the New York Times.

[slufanskip]

England ties Algeria 0-0

So here is how it stands. I'll list the tie breakers below.

Slovenia leads with 4 points and a plus 1 goal differential and 3 goals scored.

USA next with 2 points and 0 goal differential and 3 goals scored

Eng third with 2 points and 0 goal differential and 1 goal scored.

Algeria last with 1 point and a -1 goal differential and 0 goals scored.

Slovenia moves on with a win or a tie against England. If they beat England they take 1st place overall if they tie it comes down to tie breaker with us if we beat Algeria or they take 1st if Algeria ties or beats us. If Slovenia loses to England they can still move on with a tie or a loss by us to Algeria.

USA moves on if we beat Algeria. If the Slovenia England game ties we are tied with Slovenia and we go to the tie breaker for 1st place. If we tie Algeria and Slovenia beats England we move on in 2nd place. If England and SLovenia tie Slovenia wins first and we go to tie breakers with England. If England beats Slovenia we are out. England takes 1st and Slovenia takes 2nd. If we lose to Algeria we are out.

England moves on if they beat Slovenia and we lose or tie to Algeria. If England ties Slovenia and we tie Algeria it comes down to tie breaker between us and England.

If we beat Algeria we move on period. If we tie Algeria we need either Slovenia to win and we move on or a tie and we have a tie breaker with England.

If we tie Algeria and Slovenia ties England we have the advantage right now as both goal diffs would be 0 and we've scored 3 to England's 1.

If both ties occur and the USA and England have both scored the same amount of goals it will come down to a drawing of lots.

Tie breaker

The ranking of each team in each group will be determined as follows:

a) greatest number of points obtained in all group matches;

goal difference in all group matches;

c) greatest number of goals scored in all group matches.

If two or more teams are equal on the basis of the above three criteria, their rankings will be determined as follows:

d) greatest number of points obtained in the group matches between the teams concerned;

e) goal difference resulting from the group matches between the teams concerned;

f) greater number of goals scored in all group matches between the teams concerned;

g) drawing of lots by the FIFA Organising Committee.

[Pistol]

A loss would not get us in at all bc that would put Algeria at 4 and Slovenia at 4(+), so we would be eliminated. Good analysis otherwise.

Metz, that picture looks like it's from nydailynews.com, not the New York Times.

You guys are right. I thought about it so much I forgot about Algeria even getting any points. Every team in control of its destiny is right. Great stuff.

Are you trying to call me Metz, or aiming that at another poster? People on here know by now I'm the anti-Metz. I might have around the same number of posts, but I did it with one screen name, not 20+.

[strozier]

NY Daily News...my fault.

[Clock_Tower]

England ties Algeria 0-0

So here is how it stands. I'll list the tie breakers below.

Slovenia leads with 4 points and a plus 1 goal differential and 3 goals scored.

USA next with 2 points and 0 goal differential and 3 goals scored

Eng third with 2 points and 0 goal differential and 1 goal scored.

Algeria last with 1 point and a -1 goal differential and 0 goals scored.

Slovenia moves on with a win or a tie against England. If they beat England they take 1st place overall if they tie it comes down to tie breaker with us if we beat Algeria or they take 1st if Algeria ties or beats us. If Slovenia loses to England they can still move on with a tie or a loss by us to Algeria.

USA moves on if we beat Algeria. If the Slovenia England game ties we are tied with Slovenia and we go to the tie breaker for 1st place. If we tie Algeria and Slovenia beats England we move on in 2nd place. If England and SLovenia tie Slovenia wins first and we go to tie breakers with England. If England beats Slovenia we are out. England takes 1st and Slovenia takes 2nd. If we lose to Algeria we are out.

England moves on if they beat Slovenia and we lose or tie to Algeria. If England ties Slovenia and we tie Algeria it comes down to tie breaker between us and England.

If we beat Algeria we move on period. If we tie Algeria we need either Slovenia to win and we move on or a tie and we have a tie breaker with England.

If we tie Algeria and Slovenia ties England we have the advantage right now as both goal diffs would be 0 and we've scored 3 to England's 1.

If both ties occur and the USA and England have both scored the same amount of goals it will come down to a drawing of lots.

Tie breaker

The ranking of each team in each group will be determined as follows:

a) greatest number of points obtained in all group matches;

goal difference in all group matches;

c) greatest number of goals scored in all group matches.

If two or more teams are equal on the basis of the above three criteria, their rankings will be determined as follows:

d) greatest number of points obtained in the group matches between the teams concerned;

e) goal difference resulting from the group matches between the teams concerned;

f) greater number of goals scored in all group matches between the teams concerned;

g) drawing of lots by the FIFA Organising Committee.

So wins by US and England will mean that both advance, right? Believe that is what the advertisers/World Cup want to happen.

[moytoy12]

So wins by US and England will mean that both advance, right? Believe that is what the advertisers/World Cup want to happen.

Correct.

[Pistol]

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/world-cup/sto...5901&ver=us

This is a pretty good summary of all scenarios in all groups. The important part:

USA advances with:

Win versus Algeria on Wednesday

Tie and Slovenia-England tie IF England does not outscore USA by 2+ goals

Tie and England loss

And I thought this was crazy:

Note: If the U.S. draws with Algeria and England draws with Slovenia, and England scores exactly two more goals than the U.S., the U.S. and England would be even on all tiebreakers for second place. The tie would be broken by drawing lots ... aka, a coin flip.