Belmont observations

[Billikan]

I was as furious as I can remember at the refs tonight. There were so many blown calls that it was impossible to keep up with them. Willie's fouls were a joke. And to top it off, the refs, particularly the taller dark haired ref who called the T on Conklin, spent most of the time outs talking to their buddies on the coaching staff at Belmont. The one assistant talked to them all the time. Their coach had a fit on a call and they got numerous calls after that. I have to assume these refs came from Belmont's league but they were absolutely terrible.

There were a lot of good things to take away from this game. Cory was terrific and played big minutes with Willie in foul trouble. He was dead tired but played his heart out, particularly on defense with numerous blocks. Their team had a bunch of dirty player hot dogs who would flop on a minutes notice and Conklin was a warrior but he got a little heated at the end when they smacked him in the face and poked him in the eye and the refs had a slow whistle. The call on Conklin at mid court was only a few feet from me and he never touched the guy. But the ref, who was not able to see anything because he was out of position, called a foul on what he thought he saw because the guy threw himself on the floor in a major flop.

KM really played well and was the only player who shot the ball well and with confidence. I am terrified as to his health situation. I had a bad poke in the eye when playing years ago and it was literally the most painful thing I ever encountered. If he has damage to his eye he will have some real issues, pain, difficult vision and time to recover with the possibility of wearing goggles--we all need to pray real hard on this one--he looked to be in horrible pain when he left the floor.

Willie has improved even more and he showed a lot of moves that the bigs from Belmont could not cover. If the refs had not taken him out of the game I think 25 points and 15 rebounds would have been likely.

The rest of the guards played hard, hard and hard some more but the shooting is just awful and many do not ever even hit the rim. Let's hope we can get some better shooting on Sat or it may get ugly! Go Bills.

[NashvilleBilliken]

I'm very impressed with Remekun. He's young, weak and raw....but he's much better than expected at this point. you can see a significant difference in his play from the beginning of the season....i'm sure playing against Willie everyday is a big part of that. He plays hard and for being so young, his defense is pretty decent. It also appears from my crappy video feed that he has a decent shot from mid-range. Hasn't hit it yet, but it doesn't look ugly. I also like that he's trying to do some post moves. Again, they haven't fallen, but the back to the basket mindset is there and he doesn't look clumsy when he attempts something (like Conklin). Who would have thought the problem with this team would be our guards. why can't we shoot?!?!?!

[DoctorB]

not sure what you mean by "weak." I sat right on the floor last night and the thing that struck me the most in the whole game was Remekun, who is pretty strong looking and a force waiting to explode for the Bills. Wait till we see him after a year or 2 in the weight room--I saw some serious upside last night that was new, at least to me. By next season he may be the strongest and stoutest big on our roster.

Cory has grown more than anyone in the short time since practice began. He had 6 blocks against a team that was pretty stout up front. Also he had several offensive boards and a couple tip outs that he did not get credit for, where he kept the ball alive; also, he had at least 2 put-back/dunks that were waved off due to fouls.

If you want to know the name of a guy on the verge of really stepping up-- look no further than this supposed red-shirt.

[cheeseman]

I am not sure if all the refs can even come from another conference - it could be that they were allowed to have one of their guys and the other two were probably from the A10 or some other midwest conference - not what you would call a marque game for refs to bid on. That being said - the ref you are talking about probably did know their coaches fairly well. The refs did not work well together - they over ruled each other even if they were not the closest to the play and the one who was was not asking for help. They had quick whistles when not needed but slow if nonexistent ones when the play was getting out hand.

KM's injury - this could be nothing or something bad. We will have to wait until something is released and we know how slow the school is on that front. Hopefully it is nothing serious and KM can play on Sat - if he can not then that game is very questionable unless JJ and CS get hot from the field and KC improves his play. I can not believe all the open shots he passed up last night - he did seem to be a bit more aggressive in the second half with his shooting but his confidence is totally gone - we saw this with Polk. I hope he gets it back or else he will be ruined for his career here as Polk was regarding shooting. It just goes to show you how fragile the mindset is when it comes to athletes performing.

Remkun - what can you say - the kid has really improved - you don't now even mind him coming in to the game. When RM was recruiting him he said the kid was man among boys but that he was worried about his age/immaturity - apparently he started school at an early age is almost a full year younger then he should be. Well worry no more - the kid is getting it by leaps and bounds. It has been a gradual improvement which makes you think that this is for real not a figment of our imagination.

One last thought on the outside shooting problem that has recently cropped up - perhaps early on the quality of teams we were playing allowed our guards to get wide open more so shooting was easy but now we are playing some better teams and they are being guarded more closely so they are not getting the same wide open looks as before. They just will have to figure out how to hit shots with a guy hanging on them.

[Hawk]

Two of the refs were from the Valley.

[troutangler]

I am not sure if all the refs can even come from another conference - it could be that they were allowed to have one of their guys and the other two were probably from the A10 or some other midwest conference - not what you would call a marque game for refs to bid on. That being said - the ref you are talking about probably did know their coaches fairly well. The refs did not work well together - they over ruled each other even if they were not the closest to the play and the one who was was not asking for help. They had quick whistles when not needed but slow if nonexistent ones when the play was getting out hand.

They don't need to be closest to the play to see something that another official may not have seen. An official doesn't have to ask for help to get help from a partner either.

I'm pretty sure they know when the blow the whistle and when not to better than you do. They may not be right every time, but I'll put my money on them being right far more often than I would on a fan being right.

Two of the refs were from the Valley.

Not really.

Bo Boroski has only worked 17 Valley games in his career. He primarily works in the MAC and Summit League.

Jackie Sanders calls mainly in the A-10, MEAC, and some C-USA.

Frank Spencer works mainly in the Summit League and MAC now. He used to do some games in the Valley several years ago, but did none last year, and only 8 between 2005 and 2008.

Oddly enough, I don't see any Atlantic Sun officials like some of you have been claiming.

[billiken_roy]

while i am sure there was a degree of acting on conklin's foul at half court, i would like to see how many of you could be playing belly button man to man on a player and the person with the ball very deliberately and very hard swings the ball through the open plane about 2 inches from your chin and not flinch or fall back. if you can stand there and not react you are a pretty tough guy. not saying it deserved a fall on the floor, but on the other hand, if cassity or conklin was in the defenders shoes and pulled that we would all be praising that great defensive play this morning. regardless of what contact was or wasnt made, conklin provided the opportunity for that to happen, and with a double digit lead and our point guard and best player out of the game, we didnt need that to happen.

dont give the refs or the opponents an opportunity to make that happen in the first place.

[FromDaEastSide]

Here is your ref statistics for the game last night with thanks to Statsheet.com, scroll to the bottom.

Belmont vs. Saint Louis 12/16/2009

[Billikan]

They don't need to be closest to the play to see something that another official may not have seen. An official doesn't have to ask for help to get help from a partner either.

I'm pretty sure they know when the blow the whistle and when not to better than you do. They may not be right every time, but I'll put my money on them being right far more often than I would on a fan being right.

Not really.

Bo Boroski has only worked 17 Valley games in his career. He primarily works in the MAC and Summit League.

Jackie Sanders calls mainly in the A-10, MEAC, and some C-USA.

Frank Spencer works mainly in the Summit League and MAC now. He used to do some games in the Valley several years ago, but did none last year, and only 8 between 2005 and 2008.

Oddly enough, I don't see any Atlantic Sun officials like some of you have been claiming.

Are you suggesting that these refs did a good job last night? They were out of position and made many bad calls with a slow whistle when things were getting out of hand and a super fast whistle against us after the Belmont coaches complained. They were not well coordinated and they were definitely not the quality of ref that we should expect for our home games if we get to pick the referees.

[Box and Won]

Here is your ref statistics for the game last night with thanks to Statsheet.com, scroll to the bottom.

Belmont vs. Saint Louis 12/16/2009

Cool site - I've never seen it before.

[troutangler]

Are you suggesting that these refs did a good job last night? They were out of position and made many bad calls with a slow whistle when things were getting out of hand and a super fast whistle against us after the Belmont coaches complained. They were not well coordinated and they were definitely not the quality of ref that we should expect for our home games if we get to pick the referees.

A slow whistle is a good thing.

When I look at whether or not referees did a "good job", the last place I check is the opinions of fans.

[brianstl]

A slow whistle is a good thing.

When I look at whether or not referees did a "good job", the last place I check is the opinions of fans.

The officals get way too much blame, but they were terrible last night. Just brutal.

[billikendave]

A slow whistle is a good thing.

It can be. However, you missed the point. It was inconsistent. The refs were slow when things start to get out of hand. There were to many quick whistles on stupid things.

FWIW, Belmont should be furious too.

Every ref misses calls. Being inconsistent, out of position and being unable to keep control are the worst things you can say about a ref. These seem to be the board's criticisms.

[slu72]

Two of the refs were from the Valley.

Aha, that explains why they were so chummy w/ Belmont's AC.

Ref: "Tell you're guys to beat the hell out of these A-10 wimps. We need 'em banged up when they play Mo. State, so we can show everyone the MVC's the top mid major conference in the country."

Belmont AC: Anyone in particular?

Ref: The Mitchell kid for sure, he's killing you and he'll kill Mo. State. A finger jab to the eye would be good... like what Mo used to give Curly.

Belmont AC: You got it. Hey, any chance of you guys tossing this thing our way?

Ref: Hell no! I want SLU to win. It'll improve Mo.State's RPI.

[moytoy12]

While the end of the game might have been questionable, I think a lot of folks are forgetting how generous the refs were to us in the 1st half. Then again, it's tough to tell on a 3x5" online video feed, but it sure looked like we got a lot of calls in the 1st half.

Edit: It still doesn't mean the refs were good.

[FromDaEastSide]

Which Ref gave the T to Conkin?

Bo Boroski

Frank Spencer

Jackie Sanders

[drkelsey55]

while i am sure there was a degree of acting on conklin's foul at half court, i would like to see how many of you could be playing belly button man to man on a player and the person with the ball very deliberately and very hard swings the ball through the open plane about 2 inches from your chin and not flinch or fall back. if you can stand there and not react you are a pretty tough guy. not saying it deserved a fall on the floor, but on the other hand, if cassity or conklin was in the defenders shoes and pulled that we would all be praising that great defensive play this morning. regardless of what contact was or wasnt made, conklin provided the opportunity for that to happen, and with a double digit lead and our point guard and best player out of the game, we didnt need that to happen.

dont give the refs or the opponents an opportunity to make that happen in the first place.

Roy that is a prety good description of what happened. However the official that called it was behind Conklin, and had no way of knowing if the defender had been hit or not. However, from my seat I had a side view and Conklin clearly never touch the guy.

I don't fault the call but I do understand Conklin getting upset about it.

The ref talked one on one with him shortly afterwards. I don't know how that conversation went either. Wonder what was said though as Brian seemed to be a marked man afterwards.

JMHO

[cheeseman]

They don't need to be closest to the play to see something that another official may not have seen. An official doesn't have to ask for help to get help from a partner either.

I'm pretty sure they know when the blow the whistle and when not to better than you do. They may not be right every time, but I'll put my money on them being right far more often than I would on a fan being right.

Not really.

Bo Boroski has only worked 17 Valley games in his career. He primarily works in the MAC and Summit League.

Jackie Sanders calls mainly in the A-10, MEAC, and some C-USA.

Frank Spencer works mainly in the Summit League and MAC now. He used to do some games in the Valley several years ago, but did none last year, and only 8 between 2005 and 2008.

Oddly enough, I don't see any Atlantic Sun officials like some of you have been claiming.

You are not the only who knows this - I never said that ref closest to the play has to make the call but he usually does. On that play he made the call very quickly and without hesitation. When the other ref over ruled him he was take a back - it happened right in front of where I sit so I had a very good look at the refs. He ignored the other ref at first and only after the ref who was over ruling him ran up to him and was vehement about it did the first ref give in. The issue here is the second ref was no where near the play and clearly it was not a flagrant miss by the first ref which is when you usually see something like that happen. As far as when an official blows his whistle or not will always be the subject of fan discussion - perhaps you don't know this.

[Billikan]

Which Ref gave the T to Conkin?

Bo Boroski

Frank Spencer

Jackie Sanders

Borowski was the one who called it from behind the play. I was close to the play but all I could see was the guy hit Conklin in the face and then poke him in the eye and he turned away hard to get away. Maybe he said something but I could not hear it. When he was the one getting mugged it seemed ridiculous to call him for a T, particularly when another guy pushed him after the play.

[Box and Won]

Jackie Sanders does a lot of our games, right? I think he's the guy I usually refer to as Gnarls Barkley.

[Hawk]

Borowski was the one who called it from behind the play. I was close to the play but all I could see was the guy hit Conklin in the face and then poke him in the eye and he turned away hard to get away. Maybe he said something but I could not hear it. When he was the one getting mugged it seemed ridiculous to call him for a T, particularly when another guy pushed him after the play.

Maybe I was watching through my blue and white glasses, BUT I thought the Belmont guy fouled Conklin poked him in the eye, the foul was called, the Belmont guy kept pursuing after the call, Conklin in a little bit of pain was trying to clear the ball, and they called a T. That's what I remember.