Clock_Tower Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 If everyone wants to stay off topic, then fine. Still a good discussion... Otherwise, no one has respond, good or bad, to the following: 1. Will playing Georgia really sell more tickets and draw in the fans or will it, as Roy mentions, it just may help the existing fan base and improve upon our RPI. 2. Why cannot SLU get a home & home with ANY team that we used to be partners/conference rivals with --- I understand the Marquette and event the DePaul thing but NO ONE else???? And, as mentioned, this has gone on for years. Unless someone is forced to play us in conference play, NO ONE will play us after the Conference breaks up??? If we leave the A-10 or its breaks up, no more games with these 13 teams either?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 it amazes me that you all think no one will play us in those games. why did spoon, romar and soderberg continue to get those extra good games each year and now all at once it just isnt possible? i am sure it is tough but favors get called in, assistant coaches call their buddies from previous jobs connects, campus presidents and AD's talk. somehow we were getting arizona, ucla, illinois, boston college, iowa, gonzaga kansas, etc to play in years past. somehow we were getting lesser bcs programs or mid major games with uw-milwaukee, mississippi, butler, kansas state, west virginia, georgia tech, california, washington, mi$$ouri, hawaii, vanderbilt, etc. but now, even though the billikens now are just as good, no better no worse, as most billiken teams in the last 20 years, that just isnt possible. i just dont get that. again, i am all for georgia coming and replacing a buy game. it is a great step in the right direction. a better job is to get another 2-3 like games and eliminate a couple more buy games. and then give the buys to eastern illinois, semo and maybe chicago state. add to that the usual games with siu, missouri state and a decent xmas tourney. now were looking at a decent non conference schedule. The year Brad was going to take us to the NCAA tourney (06-07) he went out and tried to get the toughest schedule he could get. How many BCS teams were on there? The answer is 3. Texas A&M let us play in their tourney and Mississippi and North Carolina followed up on home and home deals. Was Brad not trying to get good teams on the schedule since it is so east to do? If it is sooooo easy to get BCS opponents to do home and homes, how come almost all of the schools you listed did one round with us and then moved on. You'd think that over the 15 years you mentioned and as easy as it is to get these games at least a couple of them would have done 2 games with us and said "lets do another 2 or 4." But that simply hasn't been the case and that spans the Spoon, Romar and Soderberg days. Again, your implication that somehow Majerus is to blame is off target. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 If everyone wants to stay off topic, then fine. Still a good discussion... Otherwise, no one has respond, good or bad, to the following: 1. Will playing Georgia really sell more tickets and draw in the fans or will it, as Roy mentions, it just may help the existing fan base and improve upon our RPI. 2. Why cannot SLU get a home & home with ANY team that we used to be partners/conference rivals with --- I understand the Marquette and event the DePaul thing but NO ONE else???? And, as mentioned, this has gone on for years. Unless someone is forced to play us in conference play, NO ONE will play us after the Conference breaks up??? If we leave the A-10 or its breaks up, no more games with these 13 teams either?? Since you determine the topic... I'll take a stab. 1) Yes, playing Georgia will sell more tickets then playing South Georgia. 2) Teams in the Big East play 18 conference games leaving only 12 non-conference games. Marquette and Louisville don't play home and homes with teams that aren't either 1) an in-state rival or 2) attractive enough to get them on national t.v. Unfortunately we are neither. I think we should play Depaul as they seem to take on all comers, although there is little RPI benefit to playing a team like that which is normally at the very bottom of the Big East (its much better from an RPI standpoint to play a top mid-major with a lot of wins, then a team like Depaul with virtually no wins). I'd also like to play Cinci and Memphis. We know Majerus has tried to play Memphis but with no luck. Cinci likely isn't banging down our door but who really knows. Is there anyone else in old CUSA that you want to play? UAB, Southern Miss, TCU, East Carolina, South Florida, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clock_Tower Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Since you determine the topic... I'll take a stab. 1) Yes, playing Georgia will sell more tickets then playing South Georgia. 2) Teams in the Big East play 16 conference games leaving only 14 non-conference games. Marquette and Louisville don't play home and homes with teams that aren't either 1) an in-state rival or 2) attractive enough to get them on national t.v. Unfortunately we are neither. I think we should play Depaul as they seem to take on all comers, although there is little RPI benefit to playing a team like that which is normally at the very bottom of the Big East (its much better from an RPI standpoint to play a top mid-major with a lot of wins, then a team like Depaul with virtually no wins). I'd also like to play Cinci and Memphis. We know Majerus has tried to play Memphis but with no luck. Cinci likely isn't banging down our door but who really knows. Is there anyone else in old CUSA that you want to play? UAB, Southern Miss, TCU, East Carolina, South Florida, etc. If the goal is play a bottom-tier SEC team b/c they are BCS and b/c of the RPI benefits, then why not South Florida. I would play them home/home ahead of Georgia. Shouldn't we have a favorable connection with Woolard there? Just b/c they had a poor season last year (and prior to that) doesn't mean they will always be bad. Frequent trips to Florida for SLU alums in the Winter is not a bad idea and keeping a friend/ally in the Big East until the truly big programs like Louisville and schools like Marquette & DePaul eventually agree to play us should have a been a reality these past 5 years. Maybe So. Florida is the one saying "no" and I agree that it take 2 programs willing to play each other... at the same time, So. Florida did travel last year to UAB even though they played in the tough Big East so there is an example of a school in an even weaker conference (Conf USA) playing a former conference rival who is now in the Big East and playing 16 conference games. As to UAB and Houston, I say yes to both. UAB was 22-12 (11-5 conf) and Houston was 21-12 (10-6 conf) and would have been good teams for us to have played. Tulane was 14-17, East Carolina was 13-17 and So. Miss was 15-17. Also, decent teams even though none of these were really big "name" programs. BTW, UAB also played Louisville, Cincy, Arizona and Oklahoma - maybe not home & home series and Don't get me wrong. I don't want to play ALL of these teams every year home/home. While I would prefer DePaul and Marquette -- followed by Louisville, Memphis and and then I would love to throw in other programs such as GTown, BC, ND and Indiana, I am suggesting that SLU pick only 1 or 2 former conference rivals and agree to play them on a frequent basis. Doesn't have to be every year for the next 20 years.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinfootes Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 it amazes me that you all think no one will play us in those games. why did spoon, romar and soderberg continue to get those extra good games each year and now all at once it just isnt possible? i am sure it is tough but favors get called in, assistant coaches call their buddies from previous jobs connects, campus presidents and AD's talk. somehow we were getting arizona, ucla, illinois, boston college, iowa, gonzaga kansas, etc to play in years past. somehow we were getting lesser bcs programs or mid major games with uw-milwaukee, mississippi, butler, kansas state, west virginia, georgia tech, california, washington, mi$$ouri, hawaii, vanderbilt, etc. but now, even though the billikens now are just as good, no better no worse, as most billiken teams in the last 20 years, that just isnt possible. i just dont get that. again, i am all for georgia coming and replacing a buy game. it is a great step in the right direction. a better job is to get another 2-3 like games and eliminate a couple more buy games. and then give the buys to eastern illinois, semo and maybe chicago state. add to that the usual games with siu, missouri state and a decent xmas tourney. now were looking at a decent non conference schedule. roy, some of the games you mentioned happened while we were in a much better conference. Illinois didn't play a true home game against us. It was at the dome (nice one for us too!). And notice that they've never come back either. We all know what mizzou says about playing us. Kansas came here because Roy Williams is a class act and plays games in the hometown of his players. That's the same reason UNC came. Looking back at the schedules, it did seem like we had 1 or 2 better non-confernece opponents each year. As I've pointed out, some of that might be the A10 factor. BTW, do you really think our teams the last 2 years are no better or worse than any teams over the past 20 years? The competition in CUSA was light years ahead of the A10, and we were competitive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 As to UAB and Houston, I say yes to both. UAB was 22-12 (11-5 conf) and Houston was 21-12 (10-6 conf) and would have been good teams for us to have played. Tulane was 14-17, East Carolina was 13-17 and So. Miss was 15-17. Also, decent teams even though none of these were really big "name" programs. BTW, UAB also played Louisville, Cincy, Arizona and Oklahoma - maybe not home & home series and Don't get me wrong. I don't want to play ALL of these teams every year home/home. While I would prefer DePaul and Marquette -- followed by Louisville, Memphis and and then I would love to throw in other programs such as GTown, BC, ND and Indiana, I am suggesting that SLU pick only 1 or 2 former conference rivals and agree to play them on a frequent basis. Doesn't have to be every year for the next 20 years.. I'm fairly certain that when Louisville and Cinci left for the Big East they contractually agreed to play UAB, Memphis and some of the left behinds in CUSA for a certain number of years. We made the same deal with Dayton when they left the Great Midwest. I don't know how much longer they have to play those teams and the exact details but that is not a case where UAB calls Louisville and they say sure we'll play you out of the goodness of our hearts. They have to do it! You should also note that UAB played in the pre-season NIT and was sent to Arizona. They upset them and were given the reward of Oklahoma and BC in New York. Its not like we aren't in a tourney this year that involves some pretty good teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheA_Bomb Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Am I right in thinking that some of the big match ups are determined by TV? Such as if we make a run in the tourney then the next year ESPN/CBS etc gets involved in saying we will put you on primetime this date if you play __________. So all we need to do is get to the Sweet 16 this year and then next year we can schedule some big name teams and be on TV. It's just that simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 What changed? Two things: 1) CUSA to A-10. 2) Comparing the Billikens of 94-2000 where we went to the NCAA tourney 4 times is not the same as comparing the Billikens of 2001-09 which have struggled to be NIT bubble teams. I know who you want to blame but it is just wrong to do so. -imo kshoe hits this right on the head -we can dream all we want that Gtwn and the rest are banging on our door to play us because we are such an attractive opponent -hopefully in a year or two that is the case -a look at Gonzaga per their media guide, for what it is worth, if anythin -joined ncaa d1 in 1958 -won WCC tourney in 1995 as a #4 seed to go to first ncaa tourney (lost to MD in SLC) -went to nit in 1996 (0-1) and 1998 (1-1) -dan monson hired as head coach for 1997-98 season, had been 9 year assistant to dan fitzgerald -1998 they are #1 seed in WCC and lose in champ game and go to nit -feb 1999 first national ranking (lose first game as ranked team) -1999 they are #1 seed in WCC, win and get a #10 seed in Seattle and beat Minn and #2 Stanford to go to Phoenix to beat #6 Florida then lose to eventual champ Uconn #1 -mark few hired as head coach for 1999-00 season, had been 10 yr assistant to monson -they have been in ncaa every year since 1999 -now to the schedule - series with UW they had played a bunch before 1945, nothing from 45-71, 6 times between 71 and 96, played in 96,98 and every yr since 43 games- WSU played many times (141) starting in 1907 (several years home and home), 18 of 20 yrs in the 70's and 80's, all but 2001 from 1996 (ok, so their in state bcs schools have a different attitude then ours does) non conf opponents by year CAPS home game- * played at spokane arena -93-94 (year before first ncaa)-(san jose st, cal st northridge in stanford tourney), [canisus, niagara in canisus tourney], WHITMAN, E WASH, W MONTANA, IDAHO, {NEW HAMPSHIRE*, SAMFORD* in Gonz tourney}, WEBER ST, idaho st -94-95 (GA ST*, MAINE* in Gonz tourney), NEVADA, WHITMAN, idaho, C WASH, CANISUS, e wash, [wichita st, air force in wichita tourney], IDAHO, sacramento st -95-96 wash st*, C WASH, S UTAH, montana st, cal st fullerton, W MONTANA, E WASH, (s alabama, uw in uw tourney) BOISE ST, e wash, SACRAMENTO ST -96-97 s utah, ST MARTIN, wash st*, C WASH, (tx san antonio, colo st in colo st tourney), MONTANA ST, MONTANA, e wash, [idaho st, boise st in boise st tourney], CAL ST FULLERTON -97-98 CONCORDIA, (tulsa, miss st, clemson in top of the world) [ark little rock, mich st in mich st tourney], chi st, wash st, IDAHO, montana, E WASH, WHITMAN, uw, BOISE ST, idaho 98-99 - ku, (memphis, purdue in preseason nit), ST MARTIN, wash st*, e wash*, [detroit, s alabama in iowa tourney], uw, CHICAGO ST, IDAHO, tx pan american, tx christian, boise st -99-00 montana, E WASH, wash st*, BOISE ST, cinn in cleveland, temple in great 8 in chi, ucla, uw, MONTANA, cal, (ohio, oregon, colorado in hawaii), idaho, TX PAN AMERICAN -00-01 e wash, WISC GB, IDAHO, az, WASH, montana, boise st, florida, wisc gb, MONMOUTH, new mex*, NORTHWEST COLLEGE, prairie view a&m*, -01-02 ill, MONTANA, (st johns, texas, marq in great alaska), ARK PBLUFF, PORTLAND ST, E WASH, [fresno st in LA], uw, WASH ST, E ORE, monmouth, st joes, new mex -02-03 HOFSTRA, (utah, ind, ky in maui), UW, montana, wash st, ga, ncst in nj, LONG BEACH ST, e wash*, stanford, ST JOES, portland st -03-04 st joes in ny, IDAHO, DENVER, ga*, uw, (md, gw in dc tourney), mo in seattle, stanford, WASH ST, e wash*, MONTANA -04-05 PORTLAND ST, MONTANA, IDAHO, ill in indy, UW, umass in seattle, wash st, SLU, ga tech in vegas, e wash*, ok st, mizzou, N COLORADO -05-06 IDAHO, (md, mich st, uconn in maui) PORTLAND ST, uw, WASH ST, ok st in seattle, UVA, e wash*, slu, memphis, ST JOES, STANFORD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 The year Brad was going to take us to the NCAA tourney (06-07) he went out and tried to get the toughest schedule he could get. How many BCS teams were on there? The answer is 3. Texas A&M let us play in their tourney and Mississippi and North Carolina followed up on home and home deals. Was Brad not trying to get good teams on the schedule since it is so east to do? If it is sooooo easy to get BCS opponents to do home and homes, how come almost all of the schools you listed did one round with us and then moved on. You'd think that over the 15 years you mentioned and as easy as it is to get these games at least a couple of them would have done 2 games with us and said "lets do another 2 or 4." But that simply hasn't been the case and that spans the Spoon, Romar and Soderberg days. Again, your implication that somehow Majerus is to blame is off target. kshoe you are exagerating my point. i am not as much about getting bcs games (i'd take them in a second) as i am about not playing double the normal amount of those horrible buy games. go back and reread. yes i pointed out a list of good bcs schools that we played in the last decade or so, but i also mentioned the lesser bcs and mid major schools that we played as well. continuing to play the abnormal number of buy games is just weak. as fans and boosters we should want our team to be challenged. especially considering we have proven year after year to be worthy of playing a better schedule and one that shouldnt be afraid to step up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinfootes Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 -imo kshoe hits this right on the head -we can dream all we want that Gtwn and the rest are banging on our door to play us because we are such an attractive opponent -hopefully in a year or two that is the case -a look at Gonzaga per their media guide, for what it is worth, if anythin -joined ncaa d1 in 1958 -won WCC tourney in 1995 as a #4 seed to go to first ncaa tourney (lost to MD in SLC) -went to nit in 1996 (0-1) and 1998 (1-1) -dan monson hired as head coach for 1997-98 season, had been 9 year assistant to dan fitzgerald -1998 they are #1 seed in WCC and lose in champ game and go to nit -feb 1999 first national ranking (lose first game as ranked team) -1999 they are #1 seed in WCC, win and get a #10 seed in Seattle and beat Minn and #2 Stanford to go to Phoenix to beat #6 Florida then lose to eventual champ Uconn #1 -mark few hired as head coach for 1999-00 season, had been 10 yr assistant to monson -they have been in ncaa every year since 1999 -now to the schedule - series with UW they had played a bunch before 1945, nothing from 45-71, 6 times between 71 and 96, played in 96,98 and every yr since 43 games- WSU played many times (141) starting in 1907 (several years home and home), 18 of 20 yrs in the 70's and 80's, all but 2001 from 1996 (ok, so their in state bcs schools have a different attitude then ours does) non conf opponents by year CAPS home game- * played at spokane arena -93-94 (year before first ncaa)-(san jose st, cal st northridge in stanford tourney), [canisus, niagara in canisus tourney], WHITMAN, E WASH, W MONTANA, IDAHO, {NEW HAMPSHIRE*, SAMFORD* in Gonz tourney}, WEBER ST, idaho st -94-95 (GA ST*, MAINE* in Gonz tourney), NEVADA, WHITMAN, idaho, C WASH, CANISUS, e wash, [wichita st, air force in wichita tourney], IDAHO, sacramento st -95-96 wash st*, C WASH, S UTAH, montana st, cal st fullerton, W MONTANA, E WASH, (s alabama, uw in uw tourney) BOISE ST, e wash, SACRAMENTO ST -96-97 s utah, ST MARTIN, wash st*, C WASH, (tx san antonio, colo st in colo st tourney), MONTANA ST, MONTANA, e wash, [idaho st, boise st in boise st tourney], CAL ST FULLERTON -97-98 CONCORDIA, (tulsa, miss st, clemson in top of the world) [ark little rock, mich st in mich st tourney], chi st, wash st, IDAHO, montana, E WASH, WHITMAN, uw, BOISE ST, idaho 98-99 - ku, (memphis, purdue in preseason nit), ST MARTIN, wash st*, e wash*, [detroit, s alabama in iowa tourney], uw, CHICAGO ST, IDAHO, tx pan american, tx christian, boise st -99-00 montana, E WASH, wash st*, BOISE ST, cinn in cleveland, temple in great 8 in chi, ucla, uw, MONTANA, cal, (ohio, oregon, colorado in hawaii), idaho, TX PAN AMERICAN -00-01 e wash, WISC GB, IDAHO, az, WASH, montana, boise st, florida, wisc gb, MONMOUTH, new mex*, NORTHWEST COLLEGE, prairie view a&m*, -01-02 ill, MONTANA, (st johns, texas, marq in great alaska), ARK PBLUFF, PORTLAND ST, E WASH, [fresno st in LA], uw, WASH ST, E ORE, monmouth, st joes, new mex -02-03 HOFSTRA, (utah, ind, ky in maui), UW, montana, wash st, ga, ncst in nj, LONG BEACH ST, e wash*, stanford, ST JOES, portland st -03-04 st joes in ny, IDAHO, DENVER, ga*, uw, (md, gw in dc tourney), mo in seattle, stanford, WASH ST, e wash*, MONTANA -04-05 PORTLAND ST, MONTANA, IDAHO, ill in indy, UW, umass in seattle, wash st, SLU, ga tech in vegas, e wash*, ok st, mizzou, N COLORADO -05-06 IDAHO, (md, mich st, uconn in maui) PORTLAND ST, uw, WASH ST, ok st in seattle, UVA, e wash*, slu, memphis, ST JOES, STANFORD Thanks for the research, cowboy. I hope this busts the myth that Gonzaga plays some outstanding non-conference home schedule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clock_Tower Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 I'm fairly certain that when Louisville and Cinci left for the Big East they contractually agreed to play UAB, Memphis and some of the left behinds in CUSA for a certain number of years. We made the same deal with Dayton when they left the Great Midwest. I don't know how much longer they have to play those teams and the exact details but that is not a case where UAB calls Louisville and they say sure we'll play you out of the goodness of our hearts. They have to do it! You should also note that UAB played in the pre-season NIT and was sent to Arizona. They upset them and were given the reward of Oklahoma and BC in New York. Its not like we aren't in a tourney this year that involves some pretty good teams. Fair points about any mandatory games with UAB. Kind of makes sense. At the same time, I still question scheduling Georgia. Why not play UAB, Houston. Also, I got to believe that we could get a few games/home & home with South Florida as well even though they are the doormat of the Big East. Without Calipari and likely after the loss of recruits and then sanctions, I would think Memphis will become a real possibility as well. My overall point: SLU, develop a plan, try to play your old conference rivals, build bridges with the old conference rivals as well as the new A10 rivals so that when the next conference comes along, schools might actually want us in their conference and might actually use their votes/influence to help get us into a good conference. Along the way, we might actually play some good games. To me, I am against playing schools only at their place but we have to develop/keep together ties with Marquette/DePaul and develop ties with ND, GTown and the other Catholic schools. If it is less favorable to start with, so be it. Acting like we are equals and don't need to play them is not smart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 kshoe you are exagerating my point. i am not as much about getting bcs games (i'd take them in a second) as i am about not playing double the normal amount of those horrible buy games. go back and reread. yes i pointed out a list of good bcs schools that we played in the last decade or so, but i also mentioned the lesser bcs and mid major schools that we played as well. continuing to play the abnormal number of buy games is just weak. as fans and boosters we should want our team to be challenged. especially considering we have proven year after year to be worthy of playing a better schedule and one that shouldnt be afraid to step up. Now we are getting somewhere. If you go back and look through past schedules almost every season we play 3 or 4 home games against buy teams. So you ask what has changed to now make us play 6 buy games instead of 4 (Last year's 7 buy games was an aberation based on Missouri St. putting the series on hold for a year)? The answer is simple; the NCAA now allows teams to play a tournament every year, whereas in the past they did not. The format of many of these tourneys is to have 2 buy games at home and play 2 real games at a neutral site like we did last year and will do this year. So now it seems like we've added 2 buy games to the schedule but in reality what has happened is that instead of playing 27 games total we are now playing 30 and 2 of the extra games are buys and 1 is a real opponent. Idealy, we would be invted to big time tourneys like Maui where every game is a challenge but that just isn't realistic. Thus, maybe it just feels like we are no longer playing as many reputable opponents but in reality we are still going to play at least 3 BCS teams, 2 MVC teams and there are still 4 games unknown which I hope/expect 3 of which to be road games against decent home and home competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p diddy Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 I believe that the series with Georgia would begin in 2010 -- just to clarify Diddy's reference to NEXT year--yes? ps -- what's with that rather odd grouping of teams, GoSLU -- i.e. Vanderbilt, Air Force, Gonzaga, Georgetown -- I get the GU connection, plus Gonzaga -- is there some indication we might play the other 2? Actually, I heard that the Bills were headed to Athens this upcoming season with the Dawgs returing the date the following year. I could be wrong on this, but that is what I heard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Actually, I heard that the Bills were headed to Athens this upcoming season with the Dawgs returing the date the following year. I could be wrong on this, but that is what I heard. This would make more sense as we probably need 3 more road games this year that will be return games next season. Hopefully this is one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicCityBilliken Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Actually, I heard that the Bills were headed to Athens this upcoming season with the Dawgs returing the date the following year. I could be wrong on this, but that is what I heard. Hey '72, looks like an excellent opportunity to cheer our beloved Bills in person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills07 Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 Game at Georgia is this season. Not sure of the date yet, but we are headed to Athens sometime during the non-conference season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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