slufanskip Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Of all the dumb posts in this thread this one takes the cake. If SLU truly has NO chance at Beal then it would be a huge mistake to recruit him. Every minute you spend recruiting him is a minute you could be spending recruiting someone else or talking to boosters or watching game tape, etc. Time is not unlimited so the second we have NO chance at a kid we need to get out immediately.I'm in complete agreement. At some point you have to assess your chances to get a kid. At the first moment you feel that your chances aren't worth the time you'll spend recruiting him .... you move on. If I felt I had a 10% chance, but knew I would have to spend alot of time that could be better spent elsewhere and would probably lose out anyway .... I'd move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 You're probably sending a bad example to all the other good kids coming out of the area. They'll look at SLU and think Beal passed them up, I will to. It doesn't hurt for SLU to at least be on the list of schools the kid might consider. And plus, how hard is it to send an assistant coach to a game every now and then. I keep hearing all this talk about SLU wanting to be a big boy school and how they're going to the Big East. Well if they're going to accomplish either, they better start recruiting guys like Beal. Sending an Asst to see him now and then isn't going to win him over when he's being recruited by schools like UNC and KU. To have a chance you would have to stay on him hard and shower him with "love" UNC and KU will. At some point you have to assess your chances and make a decision on how to best use your recources and time is one of them. I don't by the "if we're not in the hunt with Beal, the next really good kid will take notice" idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Postcard Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 I'm in complete agreement. At some point you have to assess your chances to get a kid. At the first moment you feel that your chances aren't worth the time you'll spend recruiting him .... you move on. If I felt I had a 10% chance, but knew I would have to spend alot of time that could be better spent elsewhere and would probably lose out anyway .... I'd move on. I'm asking a serious question here because I don't know the answer but what does recruiting entail? Is it writing the kid a note every few days? Is it going to see him play 3 times a year? How much time would the staff actually be investing? What if things change with Beal(he is only a sophmore) and he narrowed his choices to the area(Mizzou and Illinois). Wouldn't you want SLU to be on that list as well? Only one team will end up getting him. Are all the others wasting their time? You have to throw the net out and see who you can nab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Getting back on topic It is important for SLU to be the first one to offer. It is one of the few ways we can upstage a national program. If we are first we can always have that. Beal looked good last year but who knew he would blow up to be a consensus top 50 recruit in his class this year. We would have looked better if we were in on him first. Majerus has made it clear top 100 recruits are not that important to him. He can win without them. But I think a kid like Beal who wants to win national champioships can look and see that Majerus has been there. No other SLU coach could say that. We may not get Beal but with Majerus we stay in the conversation if Rick pursues the recruit. If we feel we are truly still in the conversation, we should go for it, but the minute we feel our chances aren't worth the recources we'll spend ... we have to move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 I'm asking a serious question here because I don't know the answer but what does recruiting entail? Is it writing the kid a note every few days? Is it going to see him play 3 times a year? How much time would the staff actually be investing? What if things change with Beal(he is only a sophmore) and he narrowed his choices to the area(Mizzou and Illinois). Wouldn't you want SLU to be on that list as well? Only one team will end up getting him. Are all the others wasting their time? You have to throw the net out and see who you can nab.And it's silly to think w haven't thrown the net out. But if you have .... do you really think sending an Asst a few times a year or writing a couple love notes will work when recruiting against the top schools in the country. I'd much rather see us going after kids we realistically feel we can get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Postcard Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 And it's silly to think w haven't thrown the net out. But if you have .... do you really think sending an Asst a few times a year or writing a couple love notes will work when recruiting against the top schools in the country. I'd much rather see us going after kids we realistically feel we can get. What do KU and NC do that we can't do? How many times will/has/can Bill Self watch him play? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 What if things change with Beal(he is only a sophmore) and he narrowed his choices to the area(Mizzou and Illinois). Wouldn't you want SLU to be on that list as well? Only one team will end up getting him. Are all the others wasting their time? You have to throw the net out and see who you can nab. Seems like you have changed from your original statement that SLU has NO chance but still should continue to recruit him to a "well SLU may still have some sort of chance, so why not recruit him" view. Those are two totally different scenarios. When the possiblity of a recruit coming to your school gets high enough to justify the time it is going to take to get him, then you go after him. When the percentage is 0, as you originally stated, then spending any time on him makes no sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 What do KU and NC do that we can't do? How many times will/has/can Bill Self watch him play? Did you really just ask what built in recruiting advantages do KU and UNC have that SLU doesn't? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Postcard Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Did you really just ask what built in recruiting advantages do KU and UNC have that SLU doesn't? No. I asked what KU, NC, etc do in the recruiting process that SLU can't. Save for an onsite visit, what is involved in recruiting a player? Please tell me. Seems like you have changed from your original statement that SLU has NO chance but still should continue to recruit him to a "well SLU may still have some sort of chance, so why not recruit him" view. Those are two totally different scenarios. When the possiblity of a recruit coming to your school gets high enough to justify the time it is going to take to get him, then you go after him. When the percentage is 0, as you originally stated, then spending any time on him makes no sense. Personally, I think they have 0 chance but if I'm SLU I keep sendind him notes and I go to see him play a few times a year and I do whatever else recruiting a player involves until he flat out tells me that he is not interested. Why wouldn't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Why wouldn't you? I thought I already answered that. If I have 0% chance, any effort is a wasted effort. Even going to see a kid on a Wed night is a night I could be watching a different kid at St. Charles, Wellston or Borgia. Postcard, I have no idea what jobs you have had in your life but I could not imagine any salesman trying to sell his product to someone that he thinks he has a 0% chance of getting a sale out of. You tell me, why would a salesman try to sell something if there is 0% chance of a sale? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 No. I asked what KU, NC, etc do in the recruiting process that SLU can't. Save for an onsite visit, what is involved in recruiting a player? Please tell me. Personally, I think they have 0 chance but if I'm SLU I keep sendind him notes and I go to see him play a few times a year and I do whatever else recruiting a player involves until he flat out tells me that he is not interested. Why wouldn't you? Why? Why would you go see him? How much time and money do you think a school has? It's not that KU or a like school can do more, it's that he's a target for them so it's worth their time and money and he would have obviously shown an interest in them also. Do you think we can outrecruit a school like KU who is making him a target because he's expressed an interest .... by going to watch him play a couple of times a year and sending him a few letters? If yes, then by all means do it, if no ... then get out. Any time and/or money you spend recruiting him is time or money your not spending somewhere else, recruiting another kid who may actually help your program someday. It's a matter of getting your resources in line with your priorities Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Postcard Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 I thought I already answered that. If I have 0% chance, any effort is a wasted effort. Even going to see a kid on a Wed night is a night I could be watching a different kid at St. Charles, Wellston or Borgia. Postcard, I have no idea what jobs you have had in your life but I could not imagine any salesman trying to sell his product to someone that he thinks he has a 0% chance of getting a sale out of. You tell me, why would a salesman try to sell something if there is 0% chance of a sale? Because if there is minimal effort and resources needed to stay in the hunt for a talent like Beal that I stay in the hand even thought the odds are against me. This isn't like this is some kid from NYC that we're trying to bring in. In sales, I stop when I get a "no." So until Beal narrows down his list, and we're not on it, I keep trying at the expense of whatever roll player we can get from St. Charles, Wellston or Borgia. Can we do both? If we "recruit" 75 players a year(I'm just making up that number. It could be 20, it could be 300), why can't we add one more to that list considering the kid is local and considering he would be a difference maker for this program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Because if there is minimal effort and resources needed to stay in the hunt for a talent like Beal that I stay in the hand even thought the odds are against me. This isn't like this is some kid from NYC that we're trying to bring in. In sales, I stop when I get a "no." So until Beal narrows down his list, and we're not on it, I keep trying at the expense of whatever roll player we can get from St. Charles, Wellston or Borgia. Can we do both? If we "recruit" 75 players a year(I'm just making up that number. It could be 20, it could be 300), why can't we add one more to that list considering the kid is local and considering he would be a difference maker for this program.we just disagree .... and there are probably coaches who agree with you, and others who would agree with me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 -on the first to offer topic, ryan robertson was on with frank about a month ago and said ku being first on him was important in his ultimate selection -of course every kid is different, but here is 1 example of a recruit saying it is important, but we also have examples of kids being swayed from last minute efforts, so obviously goes both ways -if getting on kids early is not important than why does rick say virtually every time in booster settings if you know the name of player get his name to us so we can get on him early? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clock_Tower Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Because if there is minimal effort and resources needed to stay in the hunt for a talent like Beal that I stay in the hand even thought the odds are against me. This isn't like this is some kid from NYC that we're trying to bring in. In sales, I stop when I get a "no." So until Beal narrows down his list, and we're not on it, I keep trying at the expense of whatever roll player we can get from St. Charles, Wellston or Borgia. Can we do both? If we "recruit" 75 players a year(I'm just making up that number. It could be 20, it could be 300), why can't we add one more to that list considering the kid is local and considering he would be a difference maker for this program. Post. My guess is that you are actually correct in at least one important aspect. I believe RM and SLU will continue to recruit Beal until RM/SLU is told "NO." RM is not going to contact Beal and officially withdraw his offer/scholarship. At the same time, I also see RM's "effort and resources", as you mention, will be "minimal" if RM detects little interest. SLU will still send him text messages, emails, phone calls (if and how permitted by NCAA - such as through a coach, father/mother) and will go to a game or two here locally (sounds like RM/SLU have already done these things - especially to watch Beal play when they can also watch possibly another kid at the same time. But at the same time, RM will not "roll out the red carpet" and "shower him with attention" like these other schools. Such actions would be greatly more than "minimal." RM's efforts will truly look "minimal" by comparison. Call this "giving up" or "being smart and moving on", the reality is that RM will pursue, determine interest, offer but then move-on or greatly pursue depending upon interest. I think everyone is actually correct in what they are saying, the difference being the "amount" of effort and resources RM will be willing to give. To land a guy like Beal, if possible, the amount would have to be overwhelming and intense. I think RM's best shot is to show minimal effort now, coach next year's guys (Beal will be a Jr.) and then finish next year real strong. If so, then after the season/summer/fall, RM steps up the efforts and says "Beal, you would be the final piece what I put together, our team already is special without you and you won't need to leave town to play on a really special team." This would be completely different than what Grawer said to Douglas and Gray, Grawer said to Claggett and Highmark and Brad said to TL and KL. Not alot for RM to say now other than "SLU is local" and "I have some good young guys and believe I will build something special" so "trust me." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drkelsey55 Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 He has two more years in High school, right? What would it hurt if every time he looked up in the stands he saw a lot of people watching his games that were wearing billikens apparel? That's not against the rules is it. You want him go to his games and be seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 He has two more years in High school, right? What would it hurt if every time he looked up in the stands he saw a lot of people watching his games that were wearing billikens apparel? That's not against the rules is it. You want him go to his games and be seen.I see recruiting as being like playing Poker. The worst place to finish is 2nd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clock_Tower Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 He has two more years in High school, right? What would it hurt if every time he looked up in the stands he saw a lot of people watching his games that were wearing billikens apparel? That's not against the rules is it. You want him go to his games and be seen. Yes, he is a high school Sophomore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STL Hoops Insider Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Why? Why offer a kid who you don't feel you can get? Just to make him feel good? I don't really give a crap if we offer the kid or not. I'm sure RM knows he's here and I'm sure he has a feel for the kid and if he has a chance or not. If he thinks he does, he'll offer. If he doesn't, why should he offer? If you are his hometown school, and you see him before any of the big boys ever hear of him and you are the first to offer, why would you think that you wouldn't have a chance unless he told you so? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 If you are his hometown school, and you see him before any of the big boys ever hear of him and you are the first to offer, why would you think that you wouldn't have a chance unless he told you so? The voice of reason, once again, and I couldn't agree more. Another factor is that Beal has a mother who is a very, very strong influence on him. She might like to see her beloved middle child stay home and our staff needs to sell her on that idea. It may not be enough but we have an advantage that no one else has in geography. We'll never become a consistently strong program if we give up on the best local recruits. We might take our licks for a while and come in second on some, but we can't just let them go without giving them our best sell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 If you are his hometown school, and you see him before any of the big boys ever hear of him and you are the first to offer, why would you think that you wouldn't have a chance unless he told you so? I don't have any idea if we have a shot or not. Never said we did or didn't. Someone else said we didn't but should continue to recruit him anyway. I said that's silly and don't think you should waste any resources pursuing a kid you don't feel you can get. Whether that's due to him outright telling you or because you can sense it. Some kids might never outright tell you. You're paid to make judgements. What makes you think you can just see a kid like Beal a couple of times and send him a few letters while schools like KU and UNC are going after him full force an still realisticaly have a chance. Sounds a bit dilusional to me. You better be in full force or just get out. You won't get him by semi recruiting him. If you disagree fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 I don't really get much of what this debate is about. What I think I do know is that Coach Majerus is recruiting this kid. But we have also already seen that Majerus knows what he is doing when it comes to recruiting. Beal is a high profile player, but if SLU does not get him, I'm not worried. The future of this program no longer rests on one player. It seems to me Coach Majerus is trying to build this program a lot like Gonzaga. You build it up first by identifying quality players flying below the radar. You have some success, make some nice NCAA runs and then you can start to land some more high profile recruits. This is a realistic approach. If Beal wants to play in his home town for an up and coming program, then certainly Majerus will gladly welcome him in. If he wants to play for an established big-time program and is willing to leave the area, then he will probably follow the path of a local player like Ryan Robertson and go to Kansas or a local player like David Lee and go to Florida. Personally I am not going to worry too much about it. I am convinced Majerus will find and develop quality players whether they are from St. Louis, Ohio, Oregon, Texas, Australia or anywhere else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Mary's Dragon Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 "Hometown Hero" does have a nice ring to it. It would be so nice to get him because he is an awesome player and we could stick it to Mizzou, KU, UNC etc..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STL Hoops Insider Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 I don't have any idea if we have a shot or not. Never said we did or didn't. Someone else said we didn't but should continue to recruit him anyway. I said that's silly and don't think you should waste any resources pursuing a kid you don't feel you can get. Whether that's due to him outright telling you or because you can sense it. Some kids might never outright tell you. You're paid to make judgements. What makes you think you can just see a kid like Beal a couple of times and send him a few letters while schools like KU and UNC are going after him full force an still realisticaly have a chance. Sounds a bit dilusional to me. You better be in full force or just get out. You won't get him by semi recruiting him. If you disagree fine. In that scenario, why should it come to the fact that schools like KU and UNC are going full force before SLU even puts an offer on the table? Here's what I'm saying, pay close attention. If a Saint Louis area kid is a top tier national talent, the SLU staff has the first chance to evaluate him and offer him before any of those high-majors do, because those high-majors are not just hanging out in Saint Louis, because as many continually remind me, Saint Louis is not a basketball hotbed. Thats all. Not a knock on Majerus or the program, just my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 In that scenario, why should it come to the fact that schools like KU and UNC are going full force before SLU even puts an offer on the table? Here's what I'm saying, pay close attention. If a Saint Louis area kid is a top tier national talent, the SLU staff has the first chance to evaluate him and offer him before any of those high-majors do, because those high-majors are not just hanging out in Saint Louis, because as many continually remind me, Saint Louis is not a basketball hotbed. Thats all. Not a knock on Majerus or the program, just my opinion. Do you have a reading comprehension issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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