Kwamain and Willie

[BACKHANDtheRICAN]

Whats up Davola....Yes the rican will be toasted by halftime after he finishes the boone's farm bottle he sneaks into the arena every game....strawberry hill, his favorite.

[courtside]

i dont know how you can make what appears to be a stupid statement like "he wasn't a true point guard". maybe some bone headed aau coach played his son at the point guard instead of mitchell, but this kid is such a natural point guard to believe or insinuate he isnt a point guard is nuts. you need to get off this debate before you really damage your credibility any more.

Mitchell has learned the point guard position after many years playing other things, and he's done well doing so, and he'll only continue to get better. I've seen him play, past and present. Have you? As I have said many times with you Roy, there is a big world out there outside of the 618, SLU home basketball games and the once per season opponent's come to town.

Roy, your posts speak for themselves. My credibility posting is just fine, thanks.

[billiken_roy]

I've seen him play, past and present. Have you?

i saw jack sickma in high school play a few times and he might have been the worst post player to make it to the state tournament i ever saw. but it was pretty obvious (he was real tall) he was a post player even though he was standing out at the wing, dribbling outside a lot and letting his 6'2" teamate handle the inside most of the game.

that didnt mean he wasnt a post player to be. same with mitchell. if you say as a 14 year old he wasnt allowed to handle the ball, that doesnt mean that he wasnt destined to be a point guard necessarily. and to see him present, he is a point guard, period. to insinuate otherwise is crazy. i just dont understand your point or what you are trying to debate. it is senseless in this case.

[courtside]

i saw jack sickma in high school play a few times and he might have been the worst post player to make it to the state tournament i ever saw. but it was pretty obvious (he was real tall) he was a post player even though he was standing out at the wing, dribbling outside a lot and letting his 6'2" teamate handle the inside most of the game.

that didnt mean he wasnt a post player to be. same with mitchell. if you say as a 14 year old he wasnt allowed to handle the ball, that doesnt mean that he wasnt destined to be a point guard necessarily. and to see him present, he is a point guard, period. to insinuate otherwise is crazy. i just dont understand your point or what you are trying to debate. it is senseless in this case.

People who are not used to playing point guard, don't automatically become destined to play that position if they do not learn the skills and put in the time to do so. Mitchell looks so good playing point guard, because he put in the time and effort and had a willingness to learn something new for his basketball future.

Jack Sikma? Really? That's your example. Wow, talk about credibility Roy. He made 200 3 pointers in his NBA career. He was known for his outside shooting as a big man, 93% FT shooter too. Jack Sikma? To Sikma's credit he worked and learned how to be a better inside player, to take advantage of his size. Just because the guy was born tall doesn't mean he was born to be a Center. It was far more natural for Sikma to play facing the basket as a wing. He eventually became a good solid rebounder and post player too. But it was far from natural for him.

And don't believe me, let's here from Jack Sikma himself:

http://20secondtimeout.blogspot.com/2008/0...nd-durable.html

Take your favorite Steve Novak. He has been working hard on his footwork, rebounding, defense and post up game to be able to enhance his NBA career. He's a natural 6'9 two guard.

Senseless is you answering Metz threads with points that don't make sense. Yes Roy we all know that it is a conspiracy that Josh Fisher is not in the NBA. Was it the same Dwyane Wade that won the conference title, or led his team to the final four? Lol. Good thing I don't judge Kevin Lisch's college career on say his game at Temple this year, or some others. Lol.

[billiken_roy]

People who are not used to playing point guard, don't automatically become destined to play that position if they do not learn the skills and put in the time to do so. Mitchell looks so good playing point guard, because he put in the time and effort and had a willingness to learn something new for his basketball future.

Jack Sickma? Really? That's your example. Wow, talk about credibility Roy. He made 200 3 pointers in his NBA career. He was known for his outside shooting as a big man, 93% FT shooter too. Jack Sickma? To Sickma's credit he worked and learned how to be a better inside player, to take advantage of his size. Just because the guy was born tall doesn't mean he was born to be a Center. It was far more natural for Sickma to play facing the basket as a wing. He eventually became a good solid rebounder and post player too. But it was far from natural for him.

And don't believe me, let's here from Jack Sikma himself:

http://20secondtimeout.blogspot.com/2008/0...nd-durable.html

Take your favorite Steve Novak. He has been working hard on his footwork, rebounding, defense and post up game to be able to enhance his NBA career. He's a natural 6'9 two guard.

Senseless is you answering Metz threads with points that don't make sense. Yes Roy we all know that it is a conspiracy that Josh Fisher is not in the NBA. Was it the same Dwyane Wade that won the conference title, or led his team to the final four? Lol. Good thing I don't judge Kevin Lisch's college career on say his game at Temple this year, or some others. Lol.

i figured you were dying to come back on me for that wade comment. score.

[courtside]

i figured you were dying to come back on me for that wade comment. score.

Does this mean we won't be talking about Jack Sikma any longer? Wow. Jack Sikma, lol.

[billiken_roy]

if you cant see the comparison to your stupid mitchell insinuation that is your problem. i just hope you quit trying to tell us that mitchell wasnt a point guard.

btw, as to lisch vs temple, if lisch had never scored double figures vs temple in his entire career like wade never did vs slu, you might have had a point. last year lisch led the team in scoring in the game vs temple and took the billikens to the last second in an overtime loss by one.

[courtside]

if you cant see the comparison to your stupid mitchell insinuation that is your problem. i just hope you quit trying to tell us that mitchell wasnt a point guard.

btw, as to lisch vs temple, if lisch had never scored double figures vs temple in his entire career like wade never did vs slu, you might have had a point. last year lisch led the team in scoring in the game vs temple and took the billikens to the last second in an overtime loss by one.

Mitchell wasn't exclusively a point guard and he worked hard to make the change to become a true point guard. I've seen him play on several occasions well prior to SLU and since, to have an informed opinion. I'm more than comfortable with that opinion.

Wade played SLU twice at SLU, one of them he had the flu Roy. But let's not that cloud your judgement of his overall game. Is Marque Perry still better than Wade?

You as usual miss the overall point, that opinions on players, coaches, teams, are better formed over a larger body of work than one game or a couple of games. Your comment in the other thread suggested that Wade wasn't all that good in college based on his games v SLU. Obviously you didn't watch the rest of his games when his team won the league and advanced to the NCAA Final Four, all within two seasons of him playing college basketball. People can cherry pick several Kevin Lisch games and say hmm not so impressive. But we all know he is a good player, a very good, solid, college two guard.

Again, does this mean you are finished with your Jack Sikma discussion? Got it.

[billiken_roy]

Mitchell wasn't exclusively a point guard and he worked hard to make the change to become a true point guard. I've seen him play on several occasions well prior to SLU and since, to have an informed opinion. I'm more than comfortable with that opinion.

Wade played SLU twice at SLU, one of them he had the flu Roy. But let's not that cloud your judgement of his overall game. Is Marque Perry still better than Wade?

You as usual miss the overall point, that opinions on players, coaches, teams, are better formed over a larger body of work than one game or a couple of games. Your comment in the other thread suggested that Wade wasn't all that good in college based on his games v SLU. Obviously you didn't watch the rest of his games when his team won the league and advanced to the NCAA Final Four, all within two seasons of him playing college basketball. People can cherry pick several Kevin Lisch games and say hmm not so impressive. But we all know he is a good player, a very good, solid, college two guard.

Again, does this mean you are finished with your Jack Sikma discussion? Got it.

i will stop my stupid comparison as soon as you knock off your stupid talk of mitchell not being a point guard. that is the whole point. you are talking stupid as well.

[SShoe]

People who are not used to playing point guard, don't automatically become destined to play that position if they do not learn the skills and put in the time to do so. Mitchell looks so good playing point guard, because he put in the time and effort and had a willingness to learn something new for his basketball future.

In high school games, positions tend to be blurred a little. There are a lot of players who aren't particularly tall, so guard positions become pretty crowded. While I don't doubt he may have shared some of the handling duties during his junior and even senior season, he was still a, if not the, primary ball handler for his high school teams.

KM already had the skills available to be a point guard and pretty much became the point for his high school team as he got older. He's barely 6'0, handles it well, is extremely quick, and has a good, but not great outside shot. Based on those characteristics, I would say that's his natural position.

Regardless, KM will likely progress significantly during the next three years. Being a frosh point is not an easy thing to do, but he's obviously handled that load and gotten better throughout the season. I kind of envision him being our own Tyreke (sp?) Rice from BC or Levance Fields from Pitt.

[courtside]

i will stop my stupid comparison as soon as you knock off your stupid talk of mitchell not being a point guard. that is the whole point. you are talking stupid as well.

I didn't say your comparison was stupid, I simply commented that evidence can show that it was off the mark. I believe you are again off the mark with Kwamain Mitchell and likely other players as well.

As I have stated, I'm comfortable with all of my comments in this thread, especially in the case of accuracy. Why would I make the comments on this thread if I didn't have an informed opinion otherwise? I wouldn't. I don't respond to every thread, but if there is something to add with relevance, and in this case, something that discusses the improvements and adjustments of SLU's current players, I'll add them.

You seem determined to disagree, even though you do not hold any informed opinion on the subject. You can only speak of Mitchell's play and game since he has been at SLU, in game situations. If anything, that must mean he's done well to make a good impression at the point guard position for SLU.

You or someone else can always ask Kwamain if he was always a true point guard, and that naturally was that his position or not if you don't want to believe my informed opinions. That seems to be one of the few ways to end your stubborness in other topics.

[bills10]

so willie and mitchell are doing great. the most fun players to watch out on the court. can't wait for the game tonight. go bills!

[courtside]

In high school games, positions tend to be blurred a little. There are a lot of players who aren't particularly tall, so guard positions become pretty crowded. While I don't doubt he may have shared some of the handling duties during his junior and even senior season, he was still a, if not the, primary ball handler for his high school teams.

KM already had the skills available to be a point guard and pretty much became the point for his high school team as he got older. He's barely 6'0, handles it well, is extremely quick, and has a good, but not great outside shot. Based on those characteristics, I would say that's his natural position.

Regardless, KM will likely progress significantly during the next three years. Being a frosh point is not an easy thing to do, but he's obviously handled that load and gotten better throughout the season. I kind of envision him being our own Tyreke (sp?) Rice from BC or Levance Fields from Pitt.

KM worked tirelessly to be a pass first point guard. And, that's the point. He isn't 6'0, that's being generous. Being a point guard is about running the team, floor game, assist to turnover ratios, pass first, dribble penetration, creating for yourself and others, among other things.

He's handled the load, and keeps up quality level play, because of his tireless efforts. His shooting will come along just fine, and he'll continue to improve his FT's, which already has solid form, typical Frosh numbers there. He'll get more comfortable going to his left, and he already has in small doses this season.

He's quicker than Fields, who imo is more of a physical player than KM. To a casual observer, I'd say his outside shooting is the one area that people will notice the most improvement in next season as well as FT's.

To not have any other point guard on the roster, and play this many minutes, and still be at a solid level, is pretty impressive, and takes lots of work and stamina.

[moytoy12]

KM worked tirelessly to be a pass first point guard. And, that's the point. He isn't 6'0, that's being generous. Being a point guard is about running the team, floor game, assist to turnover ratios, pass first, dribble penetration, creating for yourself and others, among other things.

He's handled the load, and keeps up quality level play, because of his tireless efforts. His shooting will come along just fine, and he'll continue to improve his FT's, which already has solid form, typical Frosh numbers there. He'll get more comfortable going to his left, and he already has in small doses this season.

He's quicker than Fields, who imo is more of a physical player than KM. To a casual observer, I'd say his outside shooting is the one area that people will notice the most improvement in next season as well as FT's.

To not have any other point guard on the roster, and play this many minutes, and still be at a solid level, is pretty impressive, and takes lots of work and stamina.

I don't think anyone is doubting how hard KM has worked.

[courtside]

I don't think anyone is doubting how hard KM has worked.

As I already stated, just because Jack Sikma is tall doesn't mean he is a natural post player, something Jack Sikma said himself rather well in the link. And just because Kwamain Mitchell has the size and body type of a point guard, doesn't mean that was his natural position as well. Obviously both Sikma and on a much smaller scale so far Mitchell, have demonstrated their abilities to adapt well to new positions and new ways of playing the game.

[moytoy12]

As I already stated, just because Jack Sikma is tall doesn't mean he is a natural post player, something Jack Sikma said himself rather well in the link. And just because Kwamain Mitchell has the size and body type of a point guard, doesn't mean that was his natural position as well. Obviously both Sikma and on a much smaller scale so far Mitchell, have demonstrated their abilities to adapt well to new positions and new ways of playing the game.

Odd response to my post, but ok.

[JMM28]

grizzly adams did have a beard!

oh and hersey hawkins was a center in high school.

[Clock_Tower]

This Board is now become Courtside.com and I for one am tiring of it. Courtside, no soccer games to fill your time these past 2 weeks?

[courtside]

This Board is now become Courtside.com and I for one am tiring of it. Courtside, no soccer games to fill your time these past 2 weeks?

Coming from the guy who told one of the board moderators this past week to not be so "Sensitive." Are we getting a little sensitive Clock Tower?

Yeah, you're right I should be spending the bulk of my time here answering trolling Metz threads as you do.

Let's see. Let's compare my number of posts and my start date vs yours. Is this Clock Tower.com?

[Clock_Tower]

Coming from the guy who told one of the board moderators this past week to not be so "Sensitive." Are we getting a little sensitive Clock Tower?

Yeah, you're right I should be spending the bulk of my time here answering trolling Metz threads as you do.

Let's see. Let's compare my number of posts and my start date vs yours. Is this Clock Tower.com?

Courtside. Is there a reason that you are starting feuds with many from the Board? You went from a soccer guy and your legendary fights with Fanin to being the biggest Marquette fan to the never ending feud with Footes about, if I recall, SIUC/snowstorms/and rivals (presume you have more to post on that topic) and now trying to convince us all that KM is somehow learning a new position -- PG. I have not joined the prior feuds but am calling you out on this one. And just in advance, I'm not going to research his minutes per game spent between the shooting guard and point guard during his 6th grade season. LOL.

As to the number of posts, re-read my post where I said "2 weeks."

And just in advance, I'm sure you have a dozen responses/posts for me and that you will want the "last word" 3 or 4 times, don't be disappointed if I don't respond.

[courtside]

Courtside. Is there a reason that you are starting feuds with many from the Board? You went from a soccer guy and your legendary fights with Fanin to being the biggest Marquette fan to the never ending feud with Footes about, if I recall, SIUC/snowstorms/and rivals (presume you have more to post on that topic) and now trying to convince us all that KM is somehow learning a new position -- PG. I have not joined the prior feuds but am calling you out on this one. And just in advance, I'm not going to research his minutes per game spent between the shooting guard and point guard during his 6th grade season. LOL.

As to the number of posts, re-read my post where I said "2 weeks."

And just in advance, I'm sure you have a dozen responses/posts for me and that you will want the "last word" 3 or 4 times, don't be disappointed if I don't respond.

Uh facts would be a good thing.

I've posted here with regards to SLU basketball and basketball for many years. I also post in regards to SLU soccer and soccer.

Legendary fights with Fanin? a few threads of soccer hardly qualifies. Since that time Fanin frequently follows my posts on other topics and comments more on me than the topic itself. I cannot control what other posters do.

I'm not the biggest Marquette fan. Because I post objectively on specific sports topics hardly qualifies me as a Marquette fan. Again, it isn't my fault that certain posters, including some who post by far more than anyone else, don't like Marquette, and that clouds their objectivity. I don't hold the same hate for Marquette or Mizzou and I've posted positively and negatively regarding all topics. You must have missed the basketball transfer threads and specific game examples where I criticized Marquette while still being able to be objective, good, bad, indifferent on other topics. I also post regarding the WCC conference teams, SEC teams and all kinds of other things. More high quantity posters have issues when I post regarding those subjects. Because some people here hate Marquette for silly reasons doesn't mean I can't have an objective discussion with other posters on whether or not Mike Deane's era was comparable to Charlie Spoonhour's. What you haven't noted is that I respond to these things, which means they are started by other people, not me much of the time, and other people like to debate them. It takes two to go back and forth on a topic.

Footes jumped into a discussion in which the topic was whether or not SLU and SIUC had a rivalry, and whether or not SLU and SIUC had significantly more attendance than against other teams. So, discussion ensued.

Calling me out on what? As I have stated I've seen him play in multiple states, many times, prior to attending SLU. He played a very high profile National schedule with Playground Warriors, to go along with his high school team at Dominican. As I stated previously go ahead and ask the kid yourself if you don't want to listen to me.

If you don't like my posts, ignore them, that's pretty simple. I don't have trouble with you when you go back and forth with others debating a topic or issue like you have in the past two weeks multiple times. If it bothers you so much, then get less preoccupied with my posts.

Had I posted on SLU's co-ed attractiveness in comparison to those in Tempe AZ, perhaps you would have been more interested. I posted regarding Vanderbilt's but it must have slipped past you.

[Quality Is Job 1]

Word!

Kwamain Mitchell is a stud. He is this team's leader.

Willie Reed is excitement personified. I look forward to his adding strength (not so much bulk).

The prospects of four years with those two are staggering. Great job by Coach Majerus and his staff in discovering them. I hope they get so good that we have them only three years.

Word!

[jjray]

And that can't be understated. Mitchell was not a point guard all that long ago in his prep days. But he learned a new position and is still learning a new position.

I appreciate that insight courtside. It helps to explain the bonehead TOs early in the season as opposed to the player we are watching in the 2nd half of the season. KM is clearly a natural PG but I get it if he's inexperienced at the position.

[courtside]

I appreciate that insight courtside. It helps to explain the bonehead TOs early in the season as opposed to the player we are watching in the 2nd half of the season. KM is clearly a natural PG but I get it if he's inexperienced at the position.

Your expectations seem to be waaaaaaay too high. Even the elite best talented point guards in the land make lots of mistakes and have a period of adjustment their Freshman season.

Even if KM played point guard his whole life, he'd make plenty of mistakes his Freshman year. You seem to be saying, well, that explains his mistakes earlier in the season. Show me a mistake free point guard and I'll show you the first one I've ever seen, NBA included.

Most college players make the biggest jump between Freshman and Sophomore seasons. And, even so, most players get experience and learn their first two seasons and become bigger contributors their last two seasons. KM would be ahead of that curve, but he'll make some mistakes the rest of the season.

I'm using your post as an example, but imo waaaay too many people expect waaaaay too much waaaaay too soon from most recruits.

[moytoy12]

Your expectations seem to be waaaaaaay too high. Even the elite best talented point guards in the land make lots of mistakes and have a period of adjustment their Freshman season.

Even if KM played point guard his whole life, he'd make plenty of mistakes his Freshman year. You seem to be saying, well, that explains his mistakes earlier in the season. Show me a mistake free point guard and I'll show you the first one I've ever seen, NBA included.

Most college players make the biggest jump between Freshman and Sophomore seasons. And, even so, most players get experience and learn their first two seasons and become bigger contributors their last two seasons. KM would be ahead of that curve, but he'll make some mistakes the rest of the season.

I'm using your post as an example, but imo waaaay too many people expect waaaaay too much waaaaay too soon from most recruits.

Rumor has it that Skip has a mistake-free pg on one of his teams.