kevinfootes Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 I've been away for a few days, so I thought I'd summarize my thoughts on Romar in a separate post rather than make several replies in the other thread. I think we can all agree that Romar was a likeable guy. I think we can also agree that he's had more success at Washington than most of the rest their history. Here's what I think about Romar at SLU... He had a great run in the conference tourney to make the big dance in his first year, using a lot of Spoon's leftovers. His teams got worse each of his three seasons at SLU, including a losing record in year three. He seemed to come in second place with some nice recruits, but never seemed to have a very good backup plan. Even though he finally landed Hollins before leaving, I'm not sure he would have been enough to change the trend of getting worse each season until he was at least a sophomore and maybe a junior. Romar left the cupboard bare for SLU in terms of talent. IMO, Romar was within a year or so of being on very thin ice at SLU. Spoon had a nice run and things were starting to slip. IMO, the move to Washington couldn't have come at a better time for him. He's been able to land the west coast players that he was trying to bring in here. Again, I think Romar was a likeable guy. I just don't view his tenure quite as fondly as roy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majerus Magic Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 I've been away for a few days, so I thought I'd summarize my thoughts on Romar in a separate post rather than make several replies in the other thread. I think we can all agree that Romar was a likeable guy. I think we can also agree that he's had more success at Washington than most of the rest their history. Here's what I think about Romar at SLU... He had a great run in the conference tourney to make the big dance in his first year, using a lot of Spoon's leftovers. His teams got worse each of his three seasons at SLU, including a losing record in year three. He seemed to come in second place with some nice recruits, but never seemed to have a very good backup plan. Even though he finally landed Hollins before leaving, I'm not sure he would have been enough to change the trend of getting worse each season until he was at least a sophomore and maybe a junior. Romar left the cupboard bare for SLU in terms of talent. IMO, Romar was within a year or so of being on very thin ice at SLU. Spoon had a nice run and things were starting to slip. IMO, the move to Washington couldn't have come at a better time for him. He's been able to land the west coast players that he was trying to bring in here. Again, I think Romar was a likeable guy. I just don't view his tenure quite as fondly as roy. agree on all accounts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicCityBilliken Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Romar left the cupboard bare for SLU in terms of talent. Marquis Perry? Did BS get us 2 NIT invites with Romer's leftovers? I know BS made two trips out to LA to get Hollins to re-consider. It was a shame he could not close the deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Marquis Perry? Did BS get us 2 NIT invites with Romer's leftovers? I know BS made two trips out to LA to get Hollins to re-consider. It was a shame he could not close the deal. MP was a spoon recruit that Romar convinced to stay. Of course Hollins wouldn't have been bad, but he wasn't the second coming. He had a pretty mediocre career at UCLA There is absolutely no doubt Romar left the cupboard bare. I agree with everything Footes said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinfootes Posted January 16, 2009 Author Share Posted January 16, 2009 Marquis Perry? Did BS get us 2 NIT invites with Romer's leftovers? I know BS made two trips out to LA to get Hollins to re-consider. It was a shame he could not close the deal. "Marquis" Perry was a great player. That's true. The rest of that lineup wasn't so hot as I recall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SluSignGuy Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Not trying to rip Romar as he was always very nice to me, but Perry was a Spoon recruit (Romar did have to re-recruit). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 "Marquis" Perry was a great player. That's true. The rest of that lineup wasn't so hot as I recall. I don't know, the Perry-Fisher-Sloan combo was pretty decent. They could have used some more talent around them though. I agree with your original post. I don't think Romar would have had any problem successfully recruiting the local kids who ended up going to schools like SIU if he would have made that his focus instead of wasting his time with west coast blue chippers. Not getting Maurice Baker really hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChosenOne Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Of course Hollins wouldn't have been bad, but he wasn't the second coming. He had a pretty mediocre career at UCLA Hollins was also playing for UCLA which is at a completely different level than SLU. I will take UCLA's mediocre players any day since we do not have a single player that a team at the level would have any interest in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinfootes Posted January 16, 2009 Author Share Posted January 16, 2009 MP was a spoon recruit that Romar convinced to stay. Of course Hollins wouldn't have been bad, but he wasn't the second coming. He had a pretty mediocre career at UCLA There is absolutely no doubt Romar left the cupboard bare. I agree with everything Footes said. Thanks for clarifying Perry, Skip. I think Hollins would have been okay here. There a little more competition at UCLA, so he would have worked his way into our lineup a little sooner. Although he's a bit player, I think this is his third season in the NBA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicCityBilliken Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 MP was a spoon recruit that Romar convinced to stay. Of course Hollins wouldn't have been bad, but he wasn't the second coming. He had a pretty mediocre career at UCLA Yea, like the Bills have so many players make it in the NBA. We get maybe one in every decade. Bonner in the '80s, Hughes in the '90s and this decade so far nada. Regarding the remainder of the cupboard, I thought a lot of Fisher and Sloan. Also, when Romer arrived, I re-call him making the trip down to Arkansas to re-recruit Jeffers and did the same with Perry by going up to Chi. I think the proper rap on Romer was he was not here long enough. You need at least 5 years to properly evaluate a HC unless they pull some real whoppers (ie. don't recruit at all, ethical problems, can't win period, etc..). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Thanks for clarifying Perry, Skip. I think Hollins would have been okay here. There a little more competition at UCLA, so he would have worked his way into our lineup a little sooner. Although he's a bit player, I think this is his third season in the NBA. I think Hollins would have been good here, just not great. He'd have played in CUSA which wasn't that far below the PAC 10. What would have been Romar's roster the year after he left? McClain left for health (not Romar's fault, but he was leaving) Edwin for grades Kern was never coming Pulley ? was that the year he left (grades) UB had to scramble to get players that year just to fill the roster. What was Romar's record his final year here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 I've been away for a few days, so I thought I'd summarize my thoughts on Romar in a separate post rather than make several replies in the other thread. I think we can all agree that Romar was a likeable guy. I think we can also agree that he's had more success at Washington than most of the rest their history. Here's what I think about Romar at SLU... He had a great run in the conference tourney to make the big dance in his first year, using a lot of Spoon's leftovers. His teams got worse each of his three seasons at SLU, including a losing record in year three. He seemed to come in second place with some nice recruits, but never seemed to have a very good backup plan. Even though he finally landed Hollins before leaving, I'm not sure he would have been enough to change the trend of getting worse each season until he was at least a sophomore and maybe a junior. Romar left the cupboard bare for SLU in terms of talent. IMO, Romar was within a year or so of being on very thin ice at SLU. Spoon had a nice run and things were starting to slip. IMO, the move to Washington couldn't have come at a better time for him. He's been able to land the west coast players that he was trying to bring in here. Again, I think Romar was a likeable guy. I just don't view his tenure quite as fondly as roy. His records did get worse as he was at SLU, but that second and third year dip happens to a lot of coaches inheriting a program- the older guys are products of the old coach, his recruits are young or not there yet, and there is generally some attrition. Keep in mind that his 2001-2002 team had exactly zero seniors on the roster. I have no doubt that the 2002-2003 team would have posted a better record than his 15-16 last year or the 16-14 record that Brad had with them. Is "left the cupboard bare" a fair argument? He didn't sabotage SLU's program; those guys left on their own, and he had discussions with each of them encouraging them to stay. Some did, but a lot didn't. Floyd McClain actually did stay, and 2002-2003 was his second straight medical redshirt season. His frustration and poor relationship with Brad led to his departure. And like I said before, Edwin would have stayed but probably had a semester of ineligibility, Pulley also would have been academically ineligible, Seyfert got homesick, Kern may have never been admitted, and Ryan Hollins was never going to play for Brad. Is it Romar's fault that the cupboard was bare when he built strong relationships with his players and recruits? Why should they stay when their coming to SLU was based on him? Marque Perry, Drew Diener, and Chris Braun were the guys on the 2001-2002 team who Spoon recruited (he told Romar when he took over, "You're gonna like the little fella.") and Romar got them all to stay and honor their commitments. Fisher, Sloan, and Brown were all Romar's recruits. Soderberg's first year would have been an unmitigated disaster without them and his second year would have been a lot harder without Fisher, Varner, Hunt, and Sloan. Also, you are all ignoring the inroads that Romar was making with the local high school players while he was at SLU. Soderberg may have been his top assistant, but he was there for the X's and O's, not to be the pitch man for these kids. Liddell was the one guy who had a relationship with Romar who came to play for Brad (when they were all underclassmen trying out for the 2002 Eagles squad in the WPG, Romar told me Liddell would be the best of what looked to be a big class for the area- Grimes, Jackson, etc.- and that he was confident he liked SLU. Tommie wasn't trying out because ESL was in the playoffs). A lot of the area high school kids at the time loved Romar, and when he left SLU was out of the picture for them. Sure, he might have not had a 20-win season in 2002-03 or 2003-04 (then again, he may have), but he was only going to come in second on those big recruits for so long before it started to pay off. I'm confident that with two more seasons, we would have been a totally different program with a totally different caliber of talent. The other thing to remember is that he actually went after the big boys- Brad didn't even bother with the top area players and took too long on the next tier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChosenOne Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 I think Hollins would have been good here, just not great. He'd have played in CUSA which wasn't that far below the PAC 10. What would have been Romar's roster the year after he left? McClain left for health (not Romar's fault, but he was leaving) Edwin for grades Kern was never coming Pulley ? was that the year he left (grades) UB had to scramble to get players that year just to fill the roster. What was Romar's record his final year here? Romar was a game below .500 his final season at SLU. Obviously he would have been fine the following season with Marque Perry, Josh Fisher, Kenny Brown, Chris Sloan, and Ryan Hollins as the core of the team. The following season is where things would have gotten dicey. Edwin and Pulley both had their academic issues the summer Romar left and I don't know enough about it to say whether that would have really changed whether or not Romar was around. I know Sodie was not a fan of either of those guys so who knows if he just encouraged them to move on. Obviously he would have brought guys in like Soderberg had to, but who knows who those players would have been. Wasn't there rumors that Taj Gray would have been a Billiken? I know from conversations with Kalen Grimes' mother that he likely would have been a Billiken had Romar stayed. Gray, Hollins, and Grimes in the frontcourt would have been pretty good in the A-10 and I know Romar was a huge fan of Tommie Liddell. It is really hard to predict what would have played out though so I will just stop there. I am happy with the talent level we have in the current freshmen class and the recruits we have coming in next year, so I don't care to dwell on it too much more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinfootes Posted January 16, 2009 Author Share Posted January 16, 2009 His records did get worse as he was at SLU, but that second and third year dip happens to a lot of coaches inheriting a program- the older guys are products of the old coach, his recruits are young or not there yet, and there is generally some attrition. Keep in mind that his 2001-2002 team had exactly zero seniors on the roster. I have no doubt that the 2002-2003 team would have posted a better record than his 15-16 last year or the 16-14 record that Brad had with them. Is "left the cupboard bare" a fair argument? He didn't sabotage SLU's program; those guys left on their own, and he had discussions with each of them encouraging them to stay. Some did, but a lot didn't. Floyd McClain actually did stay, and 2002-2003 was his second straight medical redshirt season. His frustration and poor relationship with Brad led to his departure. And like I said before, Edwin would have stayed but probably had a semester of ineligibility, Pulley also would have been academically ineligible, Seyfert got homesick, Kern may have never been admitted, and Ryan Hollins was never going to play for Brad. Is it Romar's fault that the cupboard was bare when he built strong relationships with his players and recruits? Why should they stay when their coming to SLU was based on him? Marque Perry, Drew Diener, and Chris Braun were the guys on the 2001-2002 team who Spoon recruited (he told Romar when he took over, "You're gonna like the little fella.") and Romar got them all to stay and honor their commitments. Fisher, Sloan, and Brown were all Romar's recruits. Soderberg's first year would have been an unmitigated disaster without them and his second year would have been a lot harder without Fisher, Varner, Hunt, and Sloan. Also, you are all ignoring the inroads that Romar was making with the local high school players while he was at SLU. Soderberg may have been his top assistant, but he was there for the X's and O's, not to be the pitch man for these kids. Liddell was the one guy who had a relationship with Romar who came to play for Brad (when they were all underclassmen trying out for the 2002 Eagles squad in the WPG, Romar told me Liddell would be the best of what looked to be a big class for the area- Grimes, Jackson, etc.- and that he was confident he liked SLU. Tommie wasn't trying out because ESL was in the playoffs). A lot of the area high school kids at the time loved Romar, and when he left SLU was out of the picture for them. Sure, he might have not had a 20-win season in 2002-03 or 2003-04 (then again, he may have), but he was only going to come in second on those big recruits for so long before it started to pay off. I'm confident that with two more seasons, we would have been a totally different program with a totally different caliber of talent. The other thing to remember is that he actually went after the big boys- Brad didn't even bother with the top area players and took too long on the next tier. Woulda shoulda coulda. No one knows how Romar might have done beyond year three. You can speculate all you like. My point is that his teams declined while he was at SLU and IMO he would have need to start showing results in year 4, or year 5 at the latest. Maybe he would have done just that, but I get a sense that at least you and roy believe that Romar's success at SLU was a guarantee. I disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Woulda shoulda coulda. No one knows how Romar might have done beyond year three. You can speculate all you like. My point is that his teams declined while he was at SLU and IMO he would have need to start showing results in year 4, or year 5 at the latest. Maybe he would have done just that, but I get a sense that at least you and roy believe that Romar's success at SLU was a guarantee. I disagree. Nothing's a guarantee. I'm just surprised that so many on here have such dismissive attitudes about Romar, especially a lot of the same people who defended Brad for so long. I obviously can't state that it is a fact that Romar would have brought a lot of success to SLU because he left and we'll never know. But I strongly believe that he was the right guy and would have gotten it done. We had 5 stagnant years after him, and Brad's most loyal supporters can't argue that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Romar was a game below .500 his final season at SLU. Obviously he would have been fine the following season with Marque Perry, Josh Fisher, Kenny Brown, Chris Sloan, and Ryan Hollins as the core of the team. The following season is where things would have gotten dicey. Edwin and Pulley both had their academic issues the summer Romar left and I don't know enough about it to say whether that would have really changed whether or not Romar was around. I know Sodie was not a fan of either of those guys so who knows if he just encouraged them to move on. Obviously he would have brought guys in like Soderberg had to, but who knows who those players would have been. Wasn't there rumors that Taj Gray would have been a Billiken? I know from conversations with Kalen Grimes' mother that he likely would have been a Billiken had Romar stayed. Gray, Hollins, and Grimes in the frontcourt would have been pretty good in the A-10 and I know Romar was a huge fan of Tommie Liddell. It is really hard to predict what would have played out though so I will just stop there. I am happy with the talent level we have in the current freshmen class and the recruits we have coming in next year, so I don't care to dwell on it too much more. Taj Gray was supposedly going to walk on his freshman year and have three years on scholarship after that. Had Romar stayed and Kern likely wouldn't have been admitted, Gray would have gotten his scholarship. In hindsight, it's amazing that Romar had an arrangement like this with a guy who turned out to be an absolute stud in the Big 12. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Romar left Fisher who he brought in and he did recruit Sloan. Other than that not much else was left behind. It has always been my contention that Hollins did not want to come to SLU even though he signed in the Fall. If he had any interest in being here even if his main reason was Romar he probably would have come - others have done so when coaching changes happened. My guess is he would have tried to get out anyway - he signed and then had a change of heart about being so far away especially when Lavender started knocking on his door. Romar would have been in deep trouble had he stayed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Yea, like the Bills have so many players make it in the NBA. We get maybe one in every decade. Bonner in the '80s, Hughes in the '90s and this decade so far nada. I can't believe no one has mentioned Ahearn yet (ducks under desk). Romar had him locked up, and he's had a cup of coffee in the NBA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 I heard Romar also had the inside track on 2 werewolves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 I can't believe no one has mentioned Ahearn yet (ducks under desk). Romar had him locked up, and he's had a cup of coffee in the NBA. Good point but he passed on Brooks who ended up at SIUC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinfootes Posted January 16, 2009 Author Share Posted January 16, 2009 Nothing's a guarantee. I'm just surprised that so many on here have such dismissive attitudes about Romar, especially a lot of the same people who defended Brad for so long. I obviously can't state that it is a fact that Romar would have brought a lot of success to SLU because he left and we'll never know. But I strongly believe that he was the right guy and would have gotten it done. We had 5 stagnant years after him, and Brad's most loyal supporters can't argue that. I'm not sure what my posts have to do with Brad. I was soley focused on Romar. The fact that Brad did worse doesn't somehow elevate Romar in my book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Good point but he passed on Brooks who ended up at SIUC. That was a huge miss - basically what I alluded to in my original post in this thread. I have no doubt that if Romar would have focused on local kids first, he would have been more successful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 I heard Romar also had the inside track on 2 werewolves. Yeah, but they were California werewolves. We were never going to get those werewolves to leave the west coast for St. Louis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinfootes Posted January 16, 2009 Author Share Posted January 16, 2009 Yeah, but they were California werewolves. We were never going to get those werewolves to leave the west coast for St. Louis. LMAO! That's a good one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archy McNally Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 I agree with Footes on all accounts of Romar. He did well at Pepperdine and Washington but was not a good fit at SLU. What irks me is that Spoon was thought to be this bad recruiter, yet he left Romar with Love, Perry, Jeffers, Baniak, Tatum, Heinrich, and Ferguson. 3 guys who were his best scorers over 3 years and 3 big front-court guys. Spoon gets slammed for Drew Diener, yet here is a guy who started his sr year for Soderberg because Romar didn't leave anybody behind that could beat him out. Lets remember, Romar recruited Varner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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