Nate's Board

[kshoe]

I have been a subscriber to his board since its inception and all things being equal I want more people to subscribe so that it becomes cost effective and provides even better data for all the people that subscribe.

But for anyone who doesn't pay for the service to complain that Nate had a hot story and didn't report it to the general public is ridiculous. When he does that, you can guarantee all those people that currently argue they get the information anyway will be proven right. The only way that board will work is if there are enough people that will pay some premium to get the SLU news earlier then the rest of the world. If you don't want to pay, fine, but don't criticize Nate for trying to build a product.

By the way, I have to laugh at a lot of posts on here where people try to find out the identy of the Aussie big man or say that there isn't any info out there on recruiting. Spend the money and you'll find out what the rest of us already know, you are trying to read a book but a lot of the pages are missing.

[AlumniFan]

But for anyone who doesn't pay for the service to complain that Nate had a hot story and didn't report it to the general public is ridiculous. When he does that, you can guarantee all those people that currently argue they get the information anyway will be proven right. The only way that board will work is if there are enough people that will pay some premium to get the SLU news earlier then the rest of the world. If you don't want to pay, fine, but don't criticize Nate for trying to build a product.

I have no problem (I never posted anything in the original thread) with someone trying to build their subscriber base to a web site, but in THIS particular situation, with something as alarming as a brand new freshman suddenly transferring, I think Nate runs the risk of pissing people off rather than attracting business. After this little stunt, I probably fall into the category of people who were considering subscribing, but now will not. Nothing personal against Nate at all; I just do not want to reward that kind of behavior. That said, I hope Nate is successful and continues to share his public insights with the board.

[billiken_roy]

kshoe, i hope nate makes a million dollars and the site is a huge success, but to tease this board like he did today wasnt right and really put a lot of wrong rumors out there as well.

imo he should have run his story like he did and then when those of us that dont subscribe would have found out later that we could have had the story much earlier had we been subscribers then we have all the right reasons to consider it. instead he tried to use this board to build his site by teasing us in a very delicate situation.

[Guest BillikenReport]

AlumniFan,

Sorry you feel this way. I've mentioned this earlier, but I'll say it again. What I am trying to build with my site is a place where fans can find more information and more content about the Billikens. Unfortunately, the site has come around much more slowly than I had hoped. I try to do as much as I can, but it's not easy. I feel bad that I can't provide more content for the subscribers of my site. I try to do whatever I can to make sure the people who pay for the content there feel like it is a worthwhile investment.

If I could run that site and have all the content be free to everyone, I would do it. But I can't. When I cover games at Chaifetz, I'm paying to park just like everybody else — even for women's games. Some months, I spend more money on photographers and freelance writers than the site even brings in. I'm very disappointed that I'm not able to do more with the site, but I'm trying to make it worthwhile for the people who choose to support it.

I made the decision to try to generate more coverage of the program and that's not an easy thing to do. I doubt anybody anybody has noticed, but the planned Billikens coverage on the insidestl.com website never happened because there wasn't enough interest to do it and the site couldn't find any local businesses to purchase ads to support it. That's not a good statement on the interest of the program in the community.

I could have just posted the story on my site and not here, though I'm sure it wouldn't have taken long for the news to travel here. I figured that a press release from SLU was forthcoming or that the P-D would have the story before too long. I took a risk in even writing the story, because there were several people who were still trying to get Cotto to change his mind. If I had been wrong, I would have owned up to it. I was also careful about what I wrote. There is a lot more to this story that probably won't be told.

[TheA_Bomb]

Hey man we all have to make a living. One day (2014 Final Four at Texas Stadium party at my house you're all invited) when SLU hits it big it will catapult you into a lucrative gig like Mike and Mike and Nate on ESPN. You'll have to discuss SLU and gives us props and you can say "I remember when.........."

[Guest BillikenReport]

Hey man we all have to make a living. One day (2014 Final Four at Texas Stadium party at my house you're all invited) when SLU hits it big it will catapult you into a lucrative gig like Mike and Mike and Nate on ESPN. You'll have to discuss SLU and gives us props and you can say "I remember when.........."

When I leave for a more lucrative gig, and at this point working part-time at a fast food restaurant would qualify, there will be a lot less information about the Billikens floating around the internet.

[TheA_Bomb]

Your missing the point. You're getting in on the ground floor of this thing before it takes off. Hang in there when SLU makes a run in the Tourney people like you will be in demand to comment on it. Let's say SLU meets UCLA in the sweet 16 those LA radio stations will be calling you up and asking you questions re: SLU. You get paid for that right? We'll get some fair weather fans too.

When SLU goes really big time (2014 Final Four Texas Stadium Party at my House you're all invited) there will be alot more information on SLU on the internet. There will be alot more people who want SLU information too.

[Clock_Tower]

Nate. Can't (shouldn't) have it both ways. If "park just like everyone else" and if you have expenses like other vendors, then go ahead and charge your fees. While you're at it, do your own marketing. Here, unlike other websites and publications, you come on this Board and, like Roy says, start a teasing post yourself. IMO, you should not have been able to do that. Next time, have someone else start the post, then you can post that you have info but that it's on your premium site. Doing it all yourself looks bad.

AlumniFan,

Sorry you feel this way. I've mentioned this earlier, but I'll say it again. What I am trying to build with my site is a place where fans can find more information and more content about the Billikens. Unfortunately, the site has come around much more slowly than I had hoped. I try to do as much as I can, but it's not easy. I feel bad that I can't provide more content for the subscribers of my site. I try to do whatever I can to make sure the people who pay for the content there feel like it is a worthwhile investment.

If I could run that site and have all the content be free to everyone, I would do it. But I can't. When I cover games at Chaifetz, I'm paying to park just like everybody else — even for women's games. Some months, I spend more money on photographers and freelance writers than the site even brings in. I'm very disappointed that I'm not able to do more with the site, but I'm trying to make it worthwhile for the people who choose to support it.

I made the decision to try to generate more coverage of the program and that's not an easy thing to do. I doubt anybody anybody has noticed, but the planned Billikens coverage on the insidestl.com website never happened because there wasn't enough interest to do it and the site couldn't find any local businesses to purchase ads to support it. That's not a good statement on the interest of the program in the community.

I could have just posted the story on my site and not here, though I'm sure it wouldn't have taken long for the news to travel here. I figured that a press release from SLU was forthcoming or that the P-D would have the story before too long. I took a risk in even writing the story, because there were several people who were still trying to get Cotto to change his mind. If I had been wrong, I would have owned up to it. I was also careful about what I wrote. There is a lot more to this story that probably won't be told.

[AlumniFan]

AlumniFan,

Sorry you feel this way. I've mentioned this earlier, but I'll say it again. What I am trying to build with my site is a place where fans can find more information and more content about the Billikens. Unfortunately, the site has come around much more slowly than I had hoped. I try to do as much as I can, but it's not easy. I feel bad that I can't provide more content for the subscribers of my site. I try to do whatever I can to make sure the people who pay for the content there feel like it is a worthwhile investment.

If I could run that site and have all the content be free to everyone, I would do it. But I can't. When I cover games at Chaifetz, I'm paying to park just like everybody else — even for women's games. Some months, I spend more money on photographers and freelance writers than the site even brings in. I'm very disappointed that I'm not able to do more with the site, but I'm trying to make it worthwhile for the people who choose to support it.

I made the decision to try to generate more coverage of the program and that's not an easy thing to do. I doubt anybody anybody has noticed, but the planned Billikens coverage on the insidestl.com website never happened because there wasn't enough interest to do it and the site couldn't find any local businesses to purchase ads to support it. That's not a good statement on the interest of the program in the community.

I could have just posted the story on my site and not here, though I'm sure it wouldn't have taken long for the news to travel here. I figured that a press release from SLU was forthcoming or that the P-D would have the story before too long. I took a risk in even writing the story, because there were several people who were still trying to get Cotto to change his mind. If I had been wrong, I would have owned up to it. I was also careful about what I wrote. There is a lot more to this story that probably won't be told.

Nate - I have no problem with the usual posts where you mention a tidbit and then say there is more on your website for subscribers. This one was just a little too "big".

Believe me, I know about trying to start a business and attract customers - it is TOUGH. I admire what you are trying to do, especially since it relates to the Billikens. It was just this last effort, in my opinion (which is worth very little) was a little much. I am sure that many are fine with what you did; I just feel differently, but not a big deal. I really do hope that you succeed.

[Majerus Magic]

Nate. Can't (shouldn't) have it both ways. If "park just like everyone else" and if you have expenses like other vendors, then go ahead and charge your fees. While you're at it, do your own marketing. Here, unlike other websites and publications, you come on this Board and, like Roy says, start a teasing post yourself. IMO, you should not have been able to do that. Next time, have someone else start the post, then you can post that you have info but that it's on your premium site. Doing it all yourself looks bad.

How was Nate not marketing himself? That is exactly what he was doing. He presented an interesting product to an interested market. If he let´s someone bring that info onto this board before him, he runs the risk of losing some paying customers. There is no reason that people should be complaining at Nate.

So you want him to run through a middle man to keep everyone Happy? Then people are just gonna be pissed at Nate AND the Middle Man.

Do you get pissed when you don´t get other things in life free when others have to pay? Probably not, and this case shouldn´t be any different.

[Orange Julius]

Nate. Can't (shouldn't) have it both ways. If "park just like everyone else" and if you have expenses like other vendors, then go ahead and charge your fees. While you're at it, do your own marketing. Here, unlike other websites and publications, you come on this Board and, like Roy says, start a teasing post yourself. IMO, you should not have been able to do that. Next time, have someone else start the post, then you can post that you have info but that it's on your premium site. Doing it all yourself looks bad.

So are you saying it would be better for me to come on here and say I know there is at least one kid that is going to transfer and another kid that is going to be forced out. I am sure Nate will have some information on that later since i told him about the possibility a couple of weeks ago.

Or I should come on the board and say that one of the non black players is disgruntled with the way things are going with the offense and he wishes coach would try something different I am sure Nate will have something more on this later.

Or any of the other things that I hear about that I pass on to specific people to look into. Just so they don't come on to the website to do some self promotion?

From what I understand this is just the tip of the iceberg. But if I were to post that then people would say you are just hating on SLU because you are a Mizzou and Notre Dame fan.

I will finish this and clean it up later I must get to school. Go Adam's High School Soar Eagles!

[isotope]

I do not have a problem with what Nate did. He is a valuable member of the Billiken fan base and is trying to report on information that is interesting to us. I am not one of the paid subscribers for financial reasons, so I do not have a problem with Nate referring to his premium articles on the message board as long as he is not using the board solely as an advertising vehicle. He brings much more to the board than many posters.

[kshoe]

Nate - I have no problem with the usual posts where you mention a tidbit and then say there is more on your website for subscribers. This one was just a little too "big".

Believe me, I know about trying to start a business and attract customers - it is TOUGH. I admire what you are trying to do, especially since it relates to the Billikens. It was just this last effort, in my opinion (which is worth very little) was a little much. I am sure that many are fine with what you did; I just feel differently, but not a big deal. I really do hope that you succeed.

Here are the things Nate's site can get scoops on:

1) player commits to Bills. Nate posts it and within an hour everybody, subscriber or not, knows who it is.

2) player shows interset in SLU. This Nate has some control over and many non-subscribers still don't know about additional recruiting targets.

3) something major happens with the team (i.e. player leaves). Nate knows about it first, yet it should be given away as free content?

The idea that he should post it on his board and not mention it over here seems like a distinction without a difference. So an hour later someone notices it on Nate's board then mentions it over here. Boom, you have the resulting string of obnoxious guesses by people that have no clue. It just happens an hour later.

[Clock_Tower]

How was Nate not marketing himself? That is exactly what he was doing. He presented an interesting product to an interested market. If he let´s someone bring that info onto this board before him, he runs the risk of losing some paying customers. There is no reason that people should be complaining at Nate.

So you want him to run through a middle man to keep everyone Happy? Then people are just gonna be pissed at Nate AND the Middle Man.

Do you get pissed when you don´t get other things in life free when others have to pay? Probably not, and this case shouldn´t be any different.

That is my exact point. Use of a fan/hobby board for one's financial motives does not appear to be a proper purpose for this Board. To me, that crosses the line. Nate used the Board - which naturally stirred up all sorts of false and hurtful rumors - and no compensation was paid.

We all know that Nate has his own business and I, like others, all wish him well and do not begrudge him for trying to earn much needed revenue. I am not "pissed when (I don't) get other things in life for free when others have to pay." To date, I have chosen not to subscribe to his site. My choice. No big deal. Like Alumni, because I enjoy the insights from Nate (and others) I have no problem with "the usual tidbits" Nate provides while suggesting that more (or even the full story) is on his premium. Also, every once in a while I enjoy a bit of insight from StLHoops and therefore, for the most part, am patient with his self-promoting for his own financial benefit.

Just curious. Where does it stop? Should we all advertise for our own business. Apparently, using the Board for compaigning purposes is fine. Not my Board so I defer to Steve and the Moderators but do remind all as to the apparent purpose of this Board:

Billikens.com is a site run by the fans for the fans of Saint Louis University Men’s Basketball. It is owned by SignGuy’s Sites, LLC whose primary agent is Steve Rogers. The site is primarily run as a hobby, and the funding for Billikens.com is entirely donation based (and those donations are greatly appreciated!)

As mentioned, I do enjoy Nate's post and don't want to diminish them nor do I begrudge his efforts to earn money while promoting the Billikens. Just thought this time it was was "too big" (Alumin) and that he "teased" this Board too much (BRoy). Orange. As I posted before, to help Nate, I did suggest that if someone else breaks a story and Nate simply says, "Yes, there is info on my site..." then it would make Nate look much better IMO.

[OC]

1) Because of Nate, we--the billiken board readers--learned of this earlier than we would have otherwise.

2) He reported it was one freshman. So let's not hold him repsonsible for the craziness that ensued where others bandied that it was Liddell, two freshmen, Guy Phillips, and the ghost of Carlos Toomer.

Thanks Nate, for your dedication to all things Billiken. You enhance being a Billiken fan.

[STL Hoops Insider]

That is my exact point. Use of a fan/hobby board for one's financial motives does not appear to be a proper purpose for this Board. To me, that crosses the line. Nate used the Board - which naturally stirred up all sorts of false and hurtful rumors - and no compensation was paid.

We all know that Nate has his own business and I, like others, all wish him well and do not begrudge him for trying to earn much needed revenue. I am not "pissed when (I don't) get other things in life for free when others have to pay." To date, I have chosen not to subscribe to his site. My choice. No big deal. Like Alumni, because I enjoy the insights from Nate (and others) I have no problem with "the usual tidbits" Nate provides while suggesting that more (or even the full story) is on his premium. Also, every once in a while I enjoy a bit of insight from StLHoops and therefore, for the most part, am patient with his self-promoting for his own financial benefit.

Just curious. Where does it stop? Should we all advertise for our own business. Apparently, using the Board for compaigning purposes is fine. Not my Board so I defer to Steve and the Moderators but do remind all as to the apparent purpose of this Board:

Billikens.com is a site run by the fans for the fans of Saint Louis University Men’s Basketball. It is owned by SignGuy’s Sites, LLC whose primary agent is Steve Rogers. The site is primarily run as a hobby, and the funding for Billikens.com is entirely donation based (and those donations are greatly appreciated!)

As mentioned, I do enjoy Nate's post and don't want to diminish them nor do I begrudge his efforts to earn money while promoting the Billikens. Just thought this time it was was "too big" (Alumin) and that he "teased" this Board too much (BRoy). Orange. As I posted before, to help Nate, I did suggest that if someone else breaks a story and Nate simply says, "Yes, there is info on my site..." then it would make Nate look much better IMO.

Financial benefit? Please go into further detail?

[NashvilleBilliken]

You guys are unbelievable. Nate has provided more Billiken information that anybody...EVER. We have posters on here who are top notch and are insiders, but this is a message board. Nate is providing professional coverage of our team. This was huge news and he posted it on the board. If he didn't, then I would have. But I wouldn't have given any more information that Nate did. I can't believe you guys are so petty that you're gonna ***** about this. "Advertising"? "Where's it gonna stop"? It's not like Nate is trying to promote something that isn't Billiken athletics. Hell, he's barely even promoting his site. He constantly post FREE tidbits on here and actively participates in our conversations. He posts ONE freaking pay article every 3 months and you jump on him. Get over it.

[Majerus Magic]

That is my exact point. Use of a fan/hobby board for one's financial motives does not appear to be a proper purpose for this Board. To me, that crosses the line. Nate used the Board - which naturally stirred up all sorts of false and hurtful rumors - and no compensation was paid.

Clock, if you don't think Nate have should have come on this board to promote his story, you have no idea how to run a business. He would have purposely been neglecting his largest target market. If he doesn't promote to us, who the hell is he going to promote to then? Crossing the line? Please

We all know that Nate has his own business and I, like others, all wish him well and do not begrudge him for trying to earn much needed revenue. I am not "pissed when (I don't) get other things in life for free when others have to pay." To date, I have chosen not to subscribe to his site. My choice. No big deal. Like Alumni, because I enjoy the insights from Nate (and others) I have no problem with "the usual tidbits" Nate provides while suggesting that more (or even the full story) is on his premium. Also, every once in a while I enjoy a bit of insight from StLHoops and therefore, for the most part, am patient with his self-promoting for his own financial benefit.

I agree with you on this section. I have no problem with STLHI, and I visit his site frequently. I am also a subscriber to Nate's site, because I like the work he does and want to support him.

Just curious. Where does it stop? Should we all advertise for our own business. Apparently, using the Board for compaigning purposes is fine. Not my Board so I defer to Steve and the Moderators but do remind all as to the apparent purpose of this Board:

No, we shouldn't all advertise for our own businesses, because no one else has a business that is SOLELY dependent on Saint Louis University Basketball news. If someone else has a pay that site that is devoted to this type of information I would love for them to post when they have a new story up. Nate was not using the board for "campaigning" purpose. He used the board to generate traffic to his site, and for that he was relatively successful.

Billikens.com is a site run by the fans for the fans of Saint Louis University Men’s Basketball. It is owned by SignGuy’s Sites, LLC whose primary agent is Steve Rogers. The site is primarily run as a hobby, and the funding for Billikens.com is entirely donation based (and those donations are greatly appreciated!)

Exactly, THIS particular site is not run for financial reasons, thus I don't think anyone should have a problem with it. If Steve was trying to make money from this site, I could understand that some people thought it was an ###### move to move traffic from this site to billikenreport.com.

As mentioned, I do enjoy Nate's post and don't want to diminish them nor do I begrudge his efforts to earn money while promoting the Billikens. Just thought this time it was was "too big" (Alumin) and that he "teased" this Board too much (BRoy). Orange. As I posted before, to help Nate, I did suggest that if someone else breaks a story and Nate simply says, "Yes, there is info on my site..." then it would make Nate look much better IMO.

I guess we are just going to disagree. Nothing personal, just standing up for Nate.

[FromDaEastSide]

1) Because of Nate, we--the billiken board readers--learned of this earlier than we would have otherwise.

2) He reported it was one freshman. So let's not hold him repsonsible for the craziness that ensued where others bandied that it was Liddell, two freshmen, Guy Phillips, and the ghost of Carlos Toomer.

Thanks Nate, for your dedication to all things Billiken. You enhance being a Billiken fan.

I could only wish it was Guy Phillips!

Thanks Nate for your insight as well.

[Guest BillikenReport]

A couple things on this...

If you ask around, you'll probably find that I am very willing to give info to just about anybody who asks. I've exchanged e-mails with people who say they don't see the value in my site but appreciate whatever insights I offer here, and I always make myself available to those folks if they are looking for more information about a recruit, something with the team, whatever.

If I were trying to keep the Cotto information from Billikens fans, I wouldn't have called TT yesterday to tip him off to the story.

By the way, if you check out the premium message board on my site, you'll not only find the info about the Australian power forward target, along with a video interview with the kid and some highlights, but you'll also read about the new point guard the Billikens are targeting for next year's recruiting class.

That's not information I'm going to share here. In the future, I'll probably be less likely to share information here based on the feedback from this most recent story. Everyone wants the information, but most don't care how much time, effort and resources I'm spending to get that information.

This is part of the reason newspapers are dying. Newspapers give away their content for free on the internet. In return, less people buy the newspapers. When newspaper subscriptions decrease, revenue goes down and then the newspapers have to fire employees (writers, photographers, designers, etc.) that were producing the content and then the quality of the content decreases.

Two years ago, Lee Enterprises' (owner of the P-D) stock was trading around $36 a share. Yesterday, it was down to 35 cents a share.

Good business strategy there.

[Postcard]

You guys are unbelievable. Nate has provided more Billiken information that anybody...EVER. We have posters on here who are top notch and are insiders, but this is a message board. Nate is providing professional coverage of our team. This was huge news and he posted it on the board. If he didn't, then I would have. But I wouldn't have given any more information that Nate did. I can't believe you guys are so petty that you're gonna ***** about this. "Advertising"? "Where's it gonna stop"? It's not like Nate is trying to promote something that isn't Billiken athletics. Hell, he's barely even promoting his site. He constantly post FREE tidbits on here and actively participates in our conversations. He posts ONE freaking pay article every 3 months and you jump on him. Get over it.

As much as it pains me to agree with my friend from the the sticks he couldn't be more right when it comes to this point. Some of you people need to take a step back and try to befriend this little thing called reality. Bills basketball should bring joy to you. The overreaction to Nate's post is disturbing. I'm sure for the most part you're all good people but "my god" cut the guy some slack.

[billiken_roy]

That's not information I'm going to share here. In the future, I'll probably be less likely to share information here based on the feedback from this most recent story.

actually i think that is smart on your part nate. like i said last night if you truly are the "first" to report accurate information all the time, the people will come. word of mouth will spread. but even if your intentions yesterday were totally innocent and only a simple effort to get a few more customers, the speculation that occured yesterday was not good regardless of what some think imo.

apparently your report on your site told it all and thus that is where people should have been reading. those of us not willing to spend the nickel would have simply been late to know or out of luck and that would have been better than people making up stories about eberhardt, liddell, john, etc. as clock said, i dont think it is fair to us or to you to try to straddle the fence on a deal like this. cant have it both ways and not cause problems.

[MB73]

Nate do not listen to a few loonies that object to your approach. Vast majority think it is OK. Stick to your guns, what you do is fine.

[moytoy12]

It's pretty obvious, Nate should be shot.

[moytoy12]

actually i think that is smart on your part nate. like i said last night if you truly are the "first" to report accurate information all the time, the people will come. word of mouth will spread. but even if your intentions yesterday were totally innocent and only a simple effort to get a few more customers, the speculation that occured yesterday was not good regardless of what some think imo.

apparently your report on your site told it all and thus that is where people should have been reading. those of us not willing to spend the nickel would have simply been late to know or out of luck and that would have been better than people making up stories about eberhardt, liddell, john, etc. as clock said, i dont think it is fair to us or to you to try to straddle the fence on a deal like this. cant have it both ways and not cause problems.

Roy, I think the speculation/rumors/negative trolling would have happened regardless (and much to Billikan's chagrin, will happen in the future). Once word got out that someone's transferring, the end result would have been roughly the same regardless.