observations on the Detroit game

[Billikan]

Lousy loss on the road!

In retrospect, a very bad decison on the starting lineup. The matchups left a mediocre 7 footer to score on us against smaller guys. Conklin is a warrior but he is not a 5 man.

In spite of Tommies wild 3 shots and great steal late, our seniors are not stepping up. We need seniors to hit open shots, particularly Kevin, and Barry is a strong tough looking guy who plays soft at times and cannot seem to get the idea of what he needs to do. He needs to play with the intensity of Rodman. I hope Kevin is not hurt again. His bad shooting is really a problem for our offense.

When you rely on a freshman point guard that is one thing and you will get mistakes but he should not be throwing the ball in on inbounds plays because he has repeatedly demonstrated that he panics and makes bad passes. I love the young man but he has a lot to learn about judgment and smart plays.

As I said after the Nebraska game, if our seniors do not play better we will not be over .500 this year. I am very concerned that we will have a losing record. A lot of the teams coming up have played well so far. Other than the bought cupcakes, I do not see many victories. Liberty just beat Virginia. Until the last two games I had hoped we would be competitive at SIU but now I have the same feeling about this team that I did about last years team. The road is a black hole!

I am a glass half full kind of guy and I believe that if we can play smarter we can compete with most teams on our schedule but teams with a bunch of freshmen have to rely on the seniors and we are not getting much other than very hard and consistant effort from Kevin (with bad shooting for the most part), good play periodically from Tommie ( but with a lot of mistakes on both ends of the court) and a few decent plays from Barry ( but overall a big minus) but all of them have not come close to the level of play we need to be a good team. If the 4 new recruits are as good and as tough and athletic as advertised then we really need them now! Oh well, I will still be a diehard fan but this is a very tough loss to take because it just seems like the losses from last year. The light in the darkness is that this team never ever quits and it fights until the last buzzer.

[brianstl]

I am not going to let Kevin off the hook. His decision to force the 3 that got blocked was a bone headed move. There was way too much time on the clock for him to force that shot. Kevin should have known better than to force that shot.

[davidnark]

Kevin has not played well this year. He simply should not be let off the hook merely because he is a Billikens.com favorite. In addition to his horrendous shooting, he is turning the ball over by forcing bad plays, and he keeps getting beat off the dribble on defense. Plus, when was the last time he actually stole the ball? I don't understand what happened to our senior leadership.

[Billikan]

I am not going to let Kevin off the hook. His decision to force the 3 that got blocked was a bone headed move. There was way too much time on the clock for him to force that shot. Kevin should have known better than to force that shot.

I agree. That was a freshman panic move rather than a cool headed senior play.

[brianstl]

Kevin has not played well this year. He simply should not be let off the hook merely because he is a Billikens.com favorite. In addition to his horrendous shooting, he is turning the ball over by forcing bad plays, and he keeps getting beat off the dribble on defense. Plus, when was the last time he actually stole the ball? I don't understand what happened to our senior leadership.

I think he still might be hurting from his injury. That would explain some of it. It doesn't explain his bone headed decision at the end of the game. If we are going to take shots at Tommie we need to take the same ones at Kevin we he makes stupid decisions.

[Billikan]

Kevin has not played well this year. He simply should not be let off the hook merely because he is a Billikens.com favorite. In addition to his horrendous shooting, he is turning the ball over by forcing bad plays, and he keeps getting beat off the dribble on defense. Plus, when was the last time he actually stole the ball? I don't understand what happened to our senior leadership.

I wonder if he is still hurt from the fall in the first game and he is trying to play through the pain. On defense particularly he does not look like the Kevin we know and love and he is short on most of his shots which would indicate it may be painful to follow through all the way like a golfer who is hurt and cannot complete the swing. Whatever it is, we sure need him to play better.

[SLUDrew]

I am not going to let Kevin off the hook. His decision to force the 3 that got blocked was a bone headed move. There was way too much time on the clock for him to force that shot. Kevin should have known better than to force that shot.

Agreed. The SLU fansbase is quick to jump all over Tommie but overly gentle when it somes to criticizing Kevin. He needs to play better and he would be the first one to say that.

[Malibubill]

I am not going to let Kevin off the hook. His decision to force the 3 that got blocked was a bone headed move. There was way too much time on the clock for him to force that shot. Kevin should have known better than to force that shot.

RM warned that this was going to be a tough year. After the first couple of games, some on this board deemed themselves a better judge of talent and potential than RM and got carried away with your expectations. Now that RM's warnings are coming true, rather than admitting that some of you got carried away, you take out your frustrations on the players and the coach. Some of you are a real joke. Go back and read what some of you wrote about the coach and the players during the game. Thank goodness they are the ones publicly representing SLU and not some of the fans posting on this board.

True fans support the players through thick and thin. Frustration and disappointment is one thing, disparaging comments about the players is another. It isn't that the comments are critical, it is the tone - completely uncalled for.

I learned one thing today - don't bother reading the game thread if the Bills are losing, little insightful or constructive in them, primarily passionate but irresponsible comments.

[brianstl]

RM warned that this was going to be a tough year. After the first couple of games, some on this board deemed themselves a better judge of talent and potential than RM and got carried away with your expectations. Now that RM's warnings are coming true, rather than admitting that some of you got carried away, you take out your frustrations on the players and the coach. Some of you are a real joke. Go back and read what some of you wrote about the coach and the players during the game. Thank goodness they are the ones publicly representing SLU and not some of the fans posting on this board.

True fans support the players through thick and thin. Frustration and disappointment is one thing, disparaging comments about the players is another. It isn't that the comments are critical, it is the tone - completely uncalled for.

I learned one thing today - don't bother reading the game thread if the Bills are losing, little insightful or constructive in them, primarily passionate but irresponsible comments.

What the hell are you talking about? Rickma made his statements in reference to the freshmen hurting the team. The 3 seniors have been hurting this team the last two games. I guess if they have been putting on the Billiken uniform they become above criticism.

[Billikan]

RM warned that this was going to be a tough year. After the first couple of games, some on this board deemed themselves a better judge of talent and potential than RM and got carried away with your expectations. Now that RM's warnings are coming true, rather than admitting that some of you got carried away, you take out your frustrations on the players and the coach. Some of you are a real joke. Go back and read what some of you wrote about the coach and the players during the game. Thank goodness they are the ones publicly representing SLU and not some of the fans posting on this board.

True fans support the players through thick and thin. Frustration and disappointment is one thing, disparaging comments about the players is another. It isn't that the comments are critical, it is the tone - completely uncalled for.

I learned one thing today - don't bother reading the game thread if the Bills are losing, little insightful or constructive in them, primarily passionate but irresponsible comments.

I never read or participate in the game threads for that reason. I just scream at the radio or the TV if we are playing bad and losing. My wife cant stand to be in the same room!

[drkelsey55]

"I never read or participate in the game threads for that reason. I just scream at the radio or the TV if we are playing bad and losing. My wife cant stand to be in the same room!"

I thought I was the only one that did this, wow I am not alone!

[Majerus Magic]

RM warned that this was going to be a tough year. After the first couple of games, some on this board deemed themselves a better judge of talent and potential than RM and got carried away with your expectations. Now that RM's warnings are coming true, rather than admitting that some of you got carried away, you take out your frustrations on the players and the coach. Some of you are a real joke. Go back and read what some of you wrote about the coach and the players during the game. Thank goodness they are the ones publicly representing SLU and not some of the fans posting on this board.

True fans support the players through thick and thin. Frustration and disappointment is one thing, disparaging comments about the players is another. It isn't that the comments are critical, it is the tone - completely uncalled for.

I learned one thing today - don't bother reading the game thread if the Bills are losing, little insightful or constructive in them, primarily passionate but irresponsible comments.

Please explain where some people got carried away?

[TreyT3]

Rickma better teach these kids to score against a zone thats all I have to say. This is the kind of game that just pisses me off to no end losing to a team they should have won because of a lot of stupid things.

[brianstl]

Rickma better teach these kids to score against a zone thats all I have to say. This is the kind of game that just pisses me off to no end losing to a team they should have won because of a lot of stupid things.

You can teach all you want, but when you can't hit a jumper.....you can't score against a zone.

[TheA_Bomb]

Exactly. So much is said about leadership. You have a leader the coach, everyone else needs to execute to the best of thier abilities. There is a lack of execution. That is to be expected when you have a young team but they should be settling in some now and start hitting their shots. TLIII and KL should be executing at a higher level and they are not. TLIII started to take over at the end of the game and so did the rest of the team but it was too little too late. If they played with higher intensity and sense of urgency from the tip they wouldn't have been in that position.

Let's see some more pick and rolls. Some more drive and kicks. The only play they seemed to execute was swinging the ball around the outside perimeter for Eberhardt to clank a 3 ptr.

[redbirdfan]

If the team is lacking leadership from the Seniors, let the new guys play. I think it might be interesting to watch the Freshmen Five; Conklin, Cassity, Cotto, Mitchell and Reed start.

[Taj79]

Give it time. You are essentially talking about a bunch of strangers, 17- to 18-year-old strangers at that, to come in and just mesh and perform as if they have been doing this for years. It's relatively unrealistic.

Having said that, I for one, thought that we'd be okay given the fact that we had two senior leaders at the guards and my belief that the college game runs through the guards. Now it ain't happening just yet and there is some question about senior leadership. Seems to make a little sense here. Forget Eberhardt. I don't think think this kid is on this team if he is reviewed by the current staff. I don't think he gets the time of day from this staff vis-a-vis the last staff who's MO was late signing season duds. He's not exactly making me forget Va'shun Newborne --- instead, he's making me think a whole lot of "here we go again."

The talent we have is good, problem is that its young and still developing. Cassisty is hesitant. Reed is thin. Conklin is a warrior but not a five and maybe not a four. Thompson is having adjustment problems. What did you expect? These are not the same type of kids that used to enroll at Cincy or Michigan or North Carolina where a Huggins or a Fisher or a Williams could roll the ball out on the court and say "go have fun" and they'd win. Majerus doesn't seem to recruit those types --- he's seems to want kids with talent that can also think and digest his many years of strategy. I believe it will come, just not as fast as some others seem to think.

Another issue we all seem to forget is that the Billikens traditionally suck on the road. Even in "good" years --- years wehre you win all the home games and a few on the road --- our few are always hard fought battles. We are not a program that can waltz into arenas in leagues perceived below ours --- Horizon, Mo Valley, Ohio Valley, Big South, etc. --- and just think we can roll a ball out on the floor and win. Someday, maybe. But not now and not with freshmen.

Timmeman's blog about the turnovers, many unforced, tells the tale for me. Freshmen mistakes. Freshmen youth. Freshmen that will turn into sophomores. I too am surprised at the issues with our seniors because I thought that with Kevin and Tommie, we'd be okay there. Maybe we are but Majerus demands more. To me, this will be an average team in development for the future. Unfortunately, two really good seniors might see their final year go up in smoke but thems the breaks. Right now, I'd expect this team to be average but on the upswing. What that means to me is again defend and win on the home court, and maybe, just maybe, steal a one, maybe two, on the road. Anything more than that would be gravy, in my book.

Over the course of the year, I'd like to see Reed and Thompson develop their inside games. I'd liketo see Mitchell make a "rare" mistake. I'd like Conklin to continue with the work that his early efforts seem to be. I want to see Cassity and Cotto develop their shots and outside game because, as someone pointed out, right now, our only exterior option appears to be Lisch and we will need more than that. If all goes well, this development will come sooner --- maybe in January and on into conference play. This is a young team and its still growing right now. One has to learn to win. One also has to learn to win on the road.

No way this team wins at Carbondale right now. Thicks said Detroit was about our only reasonable chance on this three game roady. Its gonna take time.

[drkelsey55]

Give it time. You are essentially talking about a bunch of strangers, 17- to 18-year-old strangers at that, to come in and just mesh and perform as if they have been doing this for years. It's relatively unrealistic.

Having said that, I for one, thought that we'd be okay given the fact that we had two senior leaders at the guards and my belief that the college game runs through the guards. Now it ain't happening just yet and there is some question about senior leadership. Seems to make a little sense here. Forget Eberhardt. I don't think think this kid is on this team if he is reviewed by the current staff. I don't think he gets the time of day from this staff vis-a-vis the last staff who's MO was late signing season duds. He's not exactly making me forget Va'shun Newborne --- instead, he's making me think a whole lot of "here we go again."

The talent we have is good, problem is that its young and still developing. Cassisty is hesitant. Reed is thin. Conklin is a warrior but not a five and maybe not a four. Thompson is having adjustment problems. What did you expect? These are not the same type of kids that used to enroll at Cincy or Michigan or North Carolina where a Huggins or a Fisher or a Williams could roll the ball out on the court and say "go have fun" and they'd win. Majerus doesn't seem to recruit those types --- he's seems to want kids with talent that can also think and digest his many years of strategy. I believe it will come, just not as fast as some others seem to think.

Another issue we all seem to forget is that the Billikens traditionally suck on the road. Even in "good" years --- years wehre you win all the home games and a few on the road --- our few are always hard fought battles. We are not a program that can waltz into arenas in leagues perceived below ours --- Horizon, Mo Valley, Ohio Valley, Big South, etc. --- and just think we can roll a ball out on the floor and win. Someday, maybe. But not now and not with freshmen.

Timmeman's blog about the turnovers, many unforced, tells the tale for me. Freshmen mistakes. Freshmen youth. Freshmen that will turn into sophomores. I too am surprised at the issues with our seniors because I thought that with Kevin and Tommie, we'd be okay there. Maybe we are but Majerus demands more. To me, this will be an average team in development for the future. Unfortunately, two really good seniors might see their final year go up in smoke but thems the breaks. Right now, I'd expect this team to be average but on the upswing. What that means to me is again defend and win on the home court, and maybe, just maybe, steal a one, maybe two, on the road. Anything more than that would be gravy, in my book.

Over the course of the year, I'd like to see Reed and Thompson develop their inside games. I'd liketo see Mitchell make a "rare" mistake. I'd like Conklin to continue with the work that his early efforts seem to be. I want to see Cassity and Cotto develop their shots and outside game because, as someone pointed out, right now, our only exterior option appears to be Lisch and we will need more than that. If all goes well, this development will come sooner --- maybe in January and on into conference play. This is a young team and its still growing right now. One has to learn to win. One also has to learn to win on the road.

No way this team wins at Carbondale right now. Thicks said Detroit was about our only reasonable chance on this three game roady. Its gonna take time.

I am going to the Carbondale game. with the youth we have you don't know what you'll get. Kinda like a box of chocolates.

This team has the tools to win at SIU. The only questions is will they use them.

[davidnark]

One key observation is that the absolute b.s. call charging call on Conklin at the start of the second half killed us. Not only was it a three point difference, it changed the early 2nd half momentum, and most importantly led to Conklin's second half foul troubles. Without Brian in the game, we are an entirely different team from a rebounding and interior offense perspective.

[booyaa87]

Do you think our lack of a "go-to" guy hurts us in those end of game situations? I think KL and TL have so much respect for each other, they hesitate to take over the game when it is close. Yesterday when we were down 3 it seemed like they were each looking for the other to do something. There are some advantages to having 2 go-to guys for the first 35 min of a game, but you need a clear cut guy to go to in the last 5 min.

Wierd comparison I know, but watching the USA basketball teams stuggle before this years gold at China was a similar situation. The lack of one go-to guy caused them to have execution problems at the end of close games.

[Tonka]

RM warned that this was going to be a tough year. After the first couple of games, some on this board deemed themselves a better judge of talent and potential than RM and got carried away with your expectations. Now that RM's warnings are coming true, rather than admitting that some of you got carried away, you take out your frustrations on the players and the coach. Some of you are a real joke. Go back and read what some of you wrote about the coach and the players during the game. Thank goodness they are the ones publicly representing SLU and not some of the fans posting on this board.

True fans support the players through thick and thin. Frustration and disappointment is one thing, disparaging comments about the players is another. It isn't that the comments are critical, it is the tone - completely uncalled for.

I learned one thing today - don't bother reading the game thread if the Bills are losing, little insightful or constructive in them, primarily passionate but irresponsible comments.

Well said, Malibubill.

I think people's frustrations get the best of them some time. It's to be expected I guess. We've all been there. I guess the question is how you handle those frustrations.