STLHI

[Pistol]

I don't think it has been an issue with SLU in the past in terms of offering kids early, because I believe Soderberg was the first to offer Tyler Griffey and that happened before Griffey even started high school. I also heard that SLU offered Kyle Kirk when he was a freshman at Fort Zumwalt West. I'm sure there are many more examples.

The bigger problem for SLU during the Soderberg era was identifying what kids to offer. This has been discussed repeatedly on this board, so I'm not going to bring up names of who was offered scholarships and who was not.

I've been saying here for years that SLU needs to build with local players to build interest in the program and to get future recruits excited about playing at SLU. BS had a great core with Kevin Lisch, Tommie Liddell, Luke Meyer and Dwayne Polk but wasn't able to build around those guys.

The dynamic has changed now with Rick Majerus and the Chaifetz Arena. I don't know if SLU will ever consistently get the best kids out of St. Louis, but they will get some here and there. There might only be two kids from this area in the class of 2009 that Majerus wants and both appear headed elsewhere. Tyler Griffey picked Illinois. Bryant Allen may choose to play football somewhere instead.

The class of 2008 was very strong locally and SLU got five guys with area ties: Brett Thompson, Femi John, Ruben Cotto, Kyle Cassity and Daniel Lisch. Willie Reed was recruited by the previous coaching staff. I don't consider Thompson and Cassity as local guys, but they both have ties to the area and played for summer teams here. Majerus was hired after Anthony Booker and Torres Roundtree had committed to Southern Illinois. By the time of the hiring, John Brandenburg had already decided he wanted to go away for school. Jared Swopshire probably already had an offer from SLU a couple years ago but moved away from the St. Louis area to get more exposure. Scott Suggs had a preexisting relationship with the coach he chose to sign with.

Majerus went after the local kids, got a couple of them, and then found players he liked elsewhere (Mitchell, Conklin, Reed) to fill in the other spots.

Those are all excellent points. Brad did the right thing with Griffey, just couldn't keep it up in the end. That was a rare instance, though, where he recognized a true talent and got on him right away. I don't fault him for that, just all the others who he out-thought himself on, and no, we don't need to bring them up.

I think Majerus is on the right track and I can't wait to see where the program is after a couple more seasons.

To touch on the Mizzou football blueprint, I think that is a very apt point for comparison and it doesn't matter if it's college football instead of college basketball. We're still talking about the process of recruiting high school kids to play collegiate athletics and building with a local/regional core, so the Mizzou argument is valid.

If you're trying to get apples to apples for basketball ACE, then Gonzaga is a better comparison than Xavier in terms of building locally. They've gotten a lot of the talent out of the Pacific Northwest and gone from there.

Xavier has a geographic advantage in that it is 100 miles or less from Indianapolis, Louisville, Lexington, Dayton, and Columbus- all areas with good depth in the high school basketball ranks. Those are the markets they pulled from for the current and recent players (Brown- Dayton, Lavender- Columbus via Oklahoma, Burrell and Duncan- Indianapolis). In addition to Holloway, the new class shows them keeping the Northern Ohio pipeline open with Frease, another Michigan kid in Redford, Pennsylvania for Walsh, and NY for Lyons. The verbal they got that kept them off Jonathan Smith was a kid from Connecticut.

I guess the point of this is that they only have 2 local kids on the roster, and both came indirectly (Anderson from JUCO, Holloway from the Indiana de-commitment). The fact is that Xavier has a geographic advantage in being able to tap several surrounding markets, whereas St. Louis is about 4 hours from the closest big markets (Indy, KC, Memphis, and a little farther is Chicago). SLU has to build from the St. Louis market more because there isn't even close to as much talent within that 100 mile radius, and Cincinnati has a ton of it within that distance. That makes a huge difference.

[brianstl]

QUOTE (STL Hoops Insider @ Sep 18 2008, 10:52 AM)

SLU signed 8 guys in this year's recruiting class. Take a second and imagine if those 8 guys would've been Josh Harrellson, John Brandenburg, Anthony Booker, Jared Swopshire, Scott Suggs, Torres Roundtree and any two of Ron Waller/Cotto/Soderberg/Hanlen.

SLU signed 8 guys

Out of your list of guys there are a couple obvious players that I would rather have than some of the guys we got. That being Suggs and Harrelson. I would rather have Cotto/Mitchell over Sodie/Waller/Hanlen. I will take Thompson over Brandenburg. I really think Femi better fits Rickma's style than Roundtree. I will take Conklin over Booker because I don't know if Booker could survive Rickma. Booker may end up being a POY in the Valley, I just don't think it would work out here. If Tommie and his attitude is a problem with Rickma........... no way Booker would survive Rickma. I don't know if you can really consider Swopshire a local kid anymore.

[STL Hoops Insider]

Out of your list of guys there are a couple obvious players that I would rather have than some of the guys we got. That being Suggs and Harrelson. I would rather have Cotto/Mitchell over Sodie/Waller/Hanlen. I will take Thompson over Brandenburg. I really think Femi better fits Rickma's style than Roundtree. I will take Conklin over Booker because I don't know if Booker could survive Rickma. Booker may end up being a POY in the Valley, I just don't think it would work out here. If Tommie and his attitude is a problem with Rickma........... no way Booker would survive Rickma. I don't know if you can really consider Swopshire a local kid anymore.

I would take Waller over Cotto or Mitchell for sure and maybe Hanlen because I think he is at least equal to those. I think he's more athletic that either of those two. I've seen Hanlen do some amazing things. His athleticism, with the ability to do a 360 dunk, his performance a couple of years ago in the shootout against UConn recruit and former NBA player Stanley Robinson's team, and then his performance in this year's state title game versus the defending state champs with 3 D1 signees. I just can never count this kid out and he'll likely play in the NCAA tournament this year as Belmont has been there the last couple of years. And I have no idea why you feel the way you feel about Booker. I dont know when he's been proven mentally week. I think he's in the perfect system to succeed.

[brianstl]

I would take Waller over Cotto or Mitchell for sure and maybe Hanlen because I think he is at least equal to those. I think he's more athletic that either of those two. I've seen Hanlen do some amazing things. His athleticism, with the ability to do a 360 dunk, his performance a couple of years ago in the shootout against UConn recruit and former NBA player Stanley Robinson's team, and then his performance in this year's state title game versus the defending state champs with 3 D1 signees. I just can never count this kid out and he'll likely play in the NCAA tournament this year as Belmont has been there the last couple of years.

We will just have to agree to disagree about Waller/Halen versus Cotto/Mitchell. I guess we will find out over the next couple years. Booker on paper would definitely be a guy you would want, but if he game here and flamed out it would be the kind of thing that could haunt the program down the line with other local kids.

[tenthyearsenior]

We will just have to agree to disagree about Waller/Halen versus Cotto/Mitchell. I guess we will find out over the next couple years. Booker on paper would definitely be a guy you would want, but if he game here and flamed out it would be the kind of thing that could haunt the program down the line with other local kids.

Brian, have you seen any of these kids play?

[STL Hoops Insider]

I was about to ask the same thing, when was the last time you have seen Waller play?

[Clock_Tower]

I would take Waller over Cotto or Mitchell for sure and maybe Hanlen because I think he is at least equal to those. I think he's more athletic that either of those two. I've seen Hanlen do some amazing things. His athleticism, with the ability to do a 360 dunk, his performance a couple of years ago in the shootout against UConn recruit and former NBA player Stanley Robinson's team, and then his performance in this year's state title game versus the defending state champs with 3 D1 signees. I just can never count this kid out and he'll likely play in the NCAA tournament this year as Belmont has been there the last couple of years. And I have no idea why you feel the way you feel about Booker. I dont know when he's been proven mentally week. I think he's in the perfect system to succeed.

STL. Only time will tell, but we are comparing the play of basketball players on the Court as opposed to Slam Dunk competitions? I am not saying you are wrong - much of this is preference and opinion. At the same time, it does appear that you not only favor local guys over non-locals but that you also favor artistic style over simply getting the job done. An athletic dunk still only counts for 2 points and a boring set shot from an unathletic kid 21 feet out counts for 3 points.

[GOSLU68]

Out of your list of guys there are a couple obvious players that I would rather have than some of the guys we got. That being Suggs and Harrelson. I would rather have Cotto/Mitchell over Sodie/Waller/Hanlen. I will take Thompson over Brandenburg. I really think Femi better fits Rickma's style than Roundtree. I will take Conklin over Booker because I don't know if Booker could survive Rickma. Booker may end up being a POY in the Valley, I just don't think it would work out here. If Tommie and his attitude is a problem with Rickma........... no way Booker would survive Rickma. I don't know if you can really consider Swopshire a local kid anymore.

Brandenburg has a very slight build compared to Thompson' i t will be very interesting to see how each matures as a basketball player in the nexst 4 years. If either will play unhurt and if either finds his way to pro ball. Some guys work out at lose weight and some guys work out and never develop

a touch that lets them finish at the basket; some guys end up doing it all

[Clock_Tower]

Xavier has the huge advantage of recruiting from a basketball hot bed in Ohio. If you don't think my example is relevant that is fine. Xaiver is certainly a program I would like to be compared to, I just think success in a city like Cincinnati and the talent Ohio turns out makes it a different situation. Regardless it sounds like you are extremely confident that Majerus will turn things around, so we don't really need to look to anyone except bow to Majerus and sit back and enjoy.

Before we all accept the premise as to how "easy" things are for Xavier, keep in mind also that the number of schools that X is competing with also does not compare to SLU. Not only to they have the state school (OSU v. Mizzou for SLU) and the neighboring state school (like Illinois) but they also have big brother Cincy on a few miles across town, Miami and Dayton less than an hour away whereas we have only SIUC. Also, X has big boys like Louisville, Kentucky, Indiana rather close as well and other competition like Ball State, Butler and others coming into their territory. Finally, we have MO State across the state whereas they have Cleveland State, Toledo, Akron, and a number of other schools.

[Clock_Tower]

The dynamic has changed now with Rick Majerus and the Chaifetz Arena. I don't know if SLU will ever consistently get the best kids out of St. Louis, but they will get some here and there. There might only be two kids from this area in the class of 2009 that Majerus wants and both appear headed elsewhere. Tyler Griffey picked Illinois. Bryant Allen may choose to play football somewhere instead.

BReport. Before we write off RM and his ability/desire to recruit locally, Griffey had ties to Brad and the old coaching staff and chose a Big 10 school with recent success instead of rebuilding at SLU. Had to blame him for not coming to SLU. We still have no local TV, we still have a major rebuilding situation and we have yet to win games.

Your second example is Bryant Allen; however if he doesn't play college basketball ANYWHERE, then I'd say it is not a fair comparison. If he chooses football, he is football player and not a basketball player.

Also, I am not seeing RM not land, or even not try to land, local guys. There just aren't many this year. Sure we have name coach who took Utah to the final game but so did Bruce Weber. Don't get me wrong, I believe RM to be a better coach than Weber and I believe RM built his own team at Utah instead of inheriting talent, but still...

[STL Hoops Insider]

[

The dynamic has changed now with Rick Majerus and the Chaifetz Arena. I don't know if SLU will ever consistently get the best kids out of St. Louis, but they will get some here and there. There might only be two kids from this area in the class of 2009 that Majerus wants and both appear headed elsewhere. Tyler Griffey picked Illinois. Bryant Allen may choose to play football somewhere instead.

BReport. Before we write off RM and his ability/desire to recruit locally, Griffey had ties to Brad and the old coaching staff and chose a Big 10 school with recent success instead of rebuilding at SLU. Had to blame him for not coming to SLU. We still have no local TV, we still have a major rebuilding situation and we have yet to win games.

Your second example is Bryant Allen; however if he doesn't play college basketball ANYWHERE, then I'd say it is not a fair comparison. If he chooses football, he is football player and not a basketball player.

Also, I am not seeing RM not land, or even not try to land, local guys. There just aren't many this year. Sure we have name coach who took Utah to the final game but so did Bruce Weber. Don't get me wrong, I believe RM to be a better coach than Weber and I believe RM built his own team at Utah instead of inheriting talent, but still...

In 2009, I couldnt argue if they didnt sign anyone from the area. I'd like to get Wiss or possibly Powell out JUCO if he's eligible, but other than that there's nothing else from the area I would be looking at very hard. 2010 and 2011 are different stories, especially 2011, it looks like it could be really special. If Shaq Boga reaches 6ft he's a stud. He had the best freshman year since well, Bryant Allen. And like Allen he did it with another big-time scorer on his team. Beal's stock is well-documented. I think McLemore could be best in class when its all said and done. Daniels at Holt can really play its just going to be interesting to see if grows and becomes a dominant big or stays the same height and becomes a wing. Keante Minor has a ton of potential also.

[Cowboy]

v you also hurt yourself in my book when every example of an athletic player includes reference to a dunk

there are many other aspects of athletic bball players than dunking, imo

[STL Hoops Insider]

Yes, but if you've seen him play, you've already seen his other athletic abilities on display. Most have not seen that he can really play above the rim. By the way, I though the v stuff was over with, wasnt there a whole thread about it.

[Cowboy]

Yes, but if you've seen him play, you've already seen his other athletic abilities on display. Most have not seen that he can really play above the rim. By the way, I though the v stuff was over with, wasnt there a whole thread about it.

-so what does the "yes" mean - that you agree that you need to cite things other than dunks when talking about athletic ability?

-if i had seen him play wouldn't i have seen his athletic dunking ability on display as well but you still mention it? why not the other athletic traits? just dunks

-takes me steps, i just said v, not longer versions

-hoping you will take a couple of steps with me and say at what level of D1 a kid can play/make an impact or what level of D1 is recruiting him as opposed to the blanket D1 statement and that you mention other athletic traits than dunking

-we get to that point and i bet we are square

-but i understand if you choose not to go there

[brianstl]

Brian, have you seen any of these kids play?

I was about to ask the same thing, when was the last time you have seen Waller play?

I saw them all in person at least one time last year, except Conklin and Mitchell. I have watched video of Conklin and Mitchell. STLHI did you ever see Cotto last season?

[GOSLU68]

The biggest issue going forward is the conference.

Some of the last few recruiting targets SLU has missed out on have picked Kentucky, Illinois, Indiana (twice during Majerus era), North Carolina State, Washington and Virginia.

The Billikens were able to get Brett Thompson and Kyle Cassity despite offers from Big Ten schools, but have lost many more of those battles than they've won. They are also in on a couple kids with offers from BCS schools right now, so we'll see what happens.

If SLU can get to the level Xavier has established, the Billikens will win more of those battles. Xavier is on another level with recruiting among A-10 schools.

I like us to be compared to x and Gonxaga however the population of Missouri is 5,800,000 and Ohio is 11, 500,000 yes you could throw in adjooning

states but Chicago dominates Illinois if you throw in their suburbs and downstate Illinois is sparsely populated

[STL Hoops Insider]

I saw them all in person at least one time last year, except Conklin and Mitchell. I have watched video of Conklin and Mitchell. STLHI did you ever see Cotto last season?

Yeah, I saw Cotto several times last year.

[Guest BillikenReport]

I would take Waller over Cotto or Mitchell for sure and maybe Hanlen because I think he is at least equal to those.

Wow.

I've liked Waller's potential for years, but I'm not taking him over Cotto, Mitchell or Hanlen. He didn't even play basketball as a senior last year.

The only thing Waller has over those three players is size. Cotto and Hanlen are much better perimeter shooters and Mitchell can create better than Waller, even though I like Waller's ability to create offense for his teammates.

I like Waller as a player to watch at Southwestern Illinois, but he's got a lot of work to do first.

[cheeseman]

I would like to hear what Nate has to say about your comment with regards to being the first to offer or recruit a kid. I follow recruiting very closely (football) and I cannot tell you the number of times a guy Mizzou is recruiting says Mizzou is one of his top choices because they were the first to offer. I think a lot can be said about being the first in on a kid.

Also, just because a kid leaves the area for prep school does not mean he no longer has ties to the area. It would seem to show that individual likely does not put as much stock in staying home, but there is still that sales pitch of playing in your own backyard where you grew up and your family and friends can see you develop. If there are already local kids making a name for themselves at the local program it makes it a little bit easier and appealing to make that pitch. To get back to Lisch and Liddell, these two kids could have gone to BCS programs, but instead stayed home and had far less exposure and never sniffed the tournament, so we really have to start from the ground level.

You have to build that base and there is no better example than what is going on at Mizzou.

Actually, I think we have said much of the same things. My point was to STLH that he simply can not say SLU should have gotten all the local talent and then they would be fine - it simply is not realistic to expect any school to get all the local talent. Apparently Nate said we offered Griffey when he was in 8th grade - so once again just because you offer early does not mean you will get the kid. Like I said, I am all for keeping the local talent here but it just won't ever work out that way every year for lots of reasons.

[kevinfootes]

Okay, wait a minute, slow down ....

STLHI said kids "from this area" competing in "the Pac 10 (2), Big East, SEC (2), Big Twelve and ACC." Let's name names here ...

Pac 10? Do you mean Suggs and Abdul-Hamid on UCLA? The jury is out on Suggs (and while I'm certain he'll do more than compete, let's wait and see. Bigger names have crashed and burned and not met expectations) and Abdul-Hamid played an average of 5 minutes last year while getting in 13 games. Of course, that is an increase over his freshman year when he got in for 2 minutes in 9 games. So he's "an up-and-comer." I don't believe that is competing. These were based on the 07-08 rosters so if I'm missing someone, I apologize.

Big East? Are you talking Blackledge on Marquette or Hansbrough who is eligible this year at Notre Dame? Blackledge averaged 7 minutes in 27 games and Hanborough sat out his year of transfer. I don't call that competing and I don't consider Carbondale or Poplar Bluff to be "from the St. Louis area."

SEC (2)? Guessing one here is Tyus with the other Harrelson to be. My jury is still out on Harrelson so let's wait and see on that one. Tyus? His stats are good enough to put him as the seventh best contributor on an upper echelon team so I'll agree on that one.

Big 12? Would that be Matt Lawrence at Mizzou? I think what really stands in testament to the lack of available talent, not only in St. Louis, but to the entire state of Missouri, is that of Mizzou's 13-man roster for 07-08, ONLY Matt Lawrence was actually from in-state. There is no greater statement, in my mind, that speaks to the dearth of talent in the state, let alone one of its two major metropolitan areas, then that fact. Yikes!

And ACC? Hansbrough doesn't count .... I don't personnally believe that a town, 152 miles away from St. Louis is "from our area." I would say that "from the area" involves a geographic location within, say, a beltway loop or something like that, recognizing that its probably a little further. But not 150 miles. At 150 miles, living here in Baltimore and applying that logic, New York city is nearly in the "Baltimore area' by those definitions. DC most certainly is. So too are Philly and Richmond. Tyler was a one-time, freak of nature. I think it is safe to say that the trail beaten down to Poplar Bluff for his services will be a trail never used again. Or not for a long time. Brandenburg is in the same class as Suggs. I am not prepared to announce his career a success based on a signing. Ditto Harrelson.

I still remember when Sean Kowal signed out of DeSmet with Colorado. And some went nuts over us losing a potential 7-footer to the Big Twelve. What ever happened with him? I know I asked that before and recall he has transfered but again, so what. Would signing Kowal have meant anything? We don't know. When Jeff Carey went to Kansas with Robertson (I think) we bemoaned that. Did Carey contribute at Kansas? I don't think so but again, who knows what he does if he comes here.

I believe we can win with St. Louis kids. We have shown that in Bonner/Douglas/Gray/Hudson/Roder. Again for Claggett and Highmark. Ditto for Hughes, Baniak and Tatum. Maybe still with Liddell and Lisch. The not-so-great list is arguably a lot longer. Who local came and failed? Or maybe didn't have the greatest of success is a better question? Darryl Anderson, Matt Baniak (post Hughes), Eric Bickel, Chris Braun, Tyrone Caswell, Anthony Jones, Ramon Trice, Kevin grawer, Johnny Parker Sr., Melvin Robinson, Dale renken, Dick Missavage, Dwayne Polk, Nick Kern, Paul Jensen, John Duff, Ted Mimlitz, Bob Mueller -- the list can go on. I think was amplifies that is then the fact that various coaches, especially Spoon and BS, would then pretty much sign anybody and talk about them being "the poor man's Larry Hughes" or some other unrealisitic expectation and those guys, while being from out of town, would amplify the old "if your gonna fail do it with local guys at least" segment.

Bottom line: you can win with local talent, I just don't think it can be done consistently because the seeding grounds are not good enough for whatever reason. Douglas was 1986. Clagget 1992. Hughes 1998. This past class 2008. Four classes over 23 or so years. That's one class every four to five years. And that's providing you get it each time. I think if you get one or two from St. Louis almost every year, you are still going to have to supplant with other equal or better talent. All the time. If that works and you win, then you don't get to the point BS did where the next unusual class in the St. Louis area is your make-or-break night at the casino.

You are kind of all over the place here. Did Nick Kern ever play for SLU? Mimlitz and Renken were on the same team with Hudson, Doulass, Gray, Bonner, and Roder. Are you saying the team wasn't successful, or that the players weren't successful? BTW, Roder was a decent point guard, but certainly not in the same class as Bonner, Douglass, and Gray. I think he averaged about 6 PPG while at SLU. Hudson is the same way. He averaged about 7 or 8 points and 4 boards per game.

You're also implying that Douglass, Claggett and Hughes were the only decent recuits coming from StL during this timeframe. There were PLENTY of talented players to come out of here during those years. Let's just name a handfull...Cuonzo Martin, David Lee, Kelly Thames, Ryan Robertson, Loren Woods, Jahidi White, Chris Carrawell, etc.

I'm not saying that SLU should have 100% of their players be local. That's not realistic. However, it's simply false to say that there aren't good players coming out of this city on a regular basis.

[Clock_Tower]

You are kind of all over the place here. Did Nick Kern ever play for SLU? Mimlitz and Renken were on the same team with Hudson, Doulass, Gray, Bonner, and Roder. Are you saying the team wasn't successful, or that the players weren't successful? BTW, Roder was a decent point guard, but certainly not in the same class as Bonner, Douglass, and Gray. I think he averaged about 6 PPG while at SLU. Hudson is the same way. He averaged about 7 or 8 points and 4 boards per game.

You're also implying that Douglass, Claggett and Hughes were the only decent recuits coming from StL during this timeframe. There were PLENTY of talented players to come out of here during those years. Let's just name a handfull...Cuonzo Martin, David Lee, Kelly Thames, Ryan Robertson, Loren Woods, Jahidi White, Chris Carrawell, etc.

I'm not saying that SLU should have 100% of their players be local. That's not realistic. However, it's simply false to say that there aren't good players coming out of this city on a regular basis.

Good posts Taj and Footes.

In reality, SLU has rebuilt every 4 to 5 years. As stated, Douglas and Gray stayed home to build the program following Grawer's first year with only 5 wins. Bonner then was added and we had great years when they were upperclassmen but not when they were freshmen & sophomores. Instead, we watched guys like Rahim Al Matin sp? and Tony Brown log heavy minutes with little success. After graduation of Douglas & Gray, and Bonner the next year and the Craig Upchurch debacle, we started over, lost alot of games, struggled and waited for next crop of locals, Melvin Robinson, Skinner, etc to shine as upperclassmen. After they quit in midseason/walked off the bench, then next set of locals began as Winfield, Bickel, Claggs and Highmark got playing time as our Bills won 5 games. Winfield and Bickel, of course, left as Bickel went on to play for Div II UMSL and Winfield continued to play well below expectations for Mizzou. The next year, we won only 12 games under Charlie's first year as we lost a ton of games as while waiting and watching for our young stars mature. Following graduation, we went back to being a bad team but soon rebounded with Larry's freshman (Baniak and Tatum) season. Following some success, we then went back to square one following an early exit for the NBA and Baniak's graduation. We then had to suffer through Charlie's last season another bad team lead by Virgil Cobbin. Next came the Romar years who left the cupboard empty for Brad who then left us only TL and KL.

I am tired of watching a new group of locals rebuild every 4 to 5 years. Winning and success will cause both locals and non-locals who want to come. While it sounds easy, if a coach can sign 2 to 3 good players each year, 20 win seasons and NCAA tournaments will result. Homeruns with locals are nice, but singles and doubles each year will score more runs.

[STL Hoops Insider]

Wow.

I've liked Waller's potential for years, but I'm not taking him over Cotto, Mitchell or Hanlen. He didn't even play basketball as a senior last year.

The only thing Waller has over those three players is size. Cotto and Hanlen are much better perimeter shooters and Mitchell can create better than Waller, even though I like Waller's ability to create offense for his teammates.

I like Waller as a player to watch at Southwestern Illinois, but he's got a lot of work to do first.

Waller would have had a MUCH higher stock if he not committed before the start of his junior season of high school or had played AAU after his junior year with the Eagles again and then actually played his senior year. Schools wrote him off because for over a year he was a solid Western Kentucky commit. He could've gone a lot bigger, but I think part of his commitment to the school was that his dad played there. I saw Ron play as recently as April and he looked GREAT!!! And yes Ron has size on those guys, a lot of it. He's 6'4 well over 200lbs, but still has great quickness, ballhandling, and best of all his creativity. He's a stat stuffer as well. You're entitled to your opinion, but I think Ron is the best out of those guys and I think he just made some difficult decisions that kept him from maximizing his potential. He can play for another D1 school as soon as this time next year, because he did qualify out of high school.

[slufanskip]

I would take Waller over Cotto or Mitchell for sure and maybe Hanlen because I think he is at least equal to those. I think he's more athletic that either of those two. I've seen Hanlen do some amazing things. His athleticism, with the ability to do a 360 dunk, his performance a couple of years ago in the shootout against UConn recruit and former NBA player Stanley Robinson's team, and then his performance in this year's state title game versus the defending state champs with 3 D1 signees. I just can never count this kid out and he'll likely play in the NCAA tournament this year as Belmont has been there the last couple of years. And I have no idea why you feel the way you feel about Booker. I dont know when he's been proven mentally week. I think he's in the perfect system to succeed.

I don't know about Waller, but you're the only one in the country that would take Hanlen over Mitchell .... and yes I can speak for every other living soul in the US ... it's that clear cut.

[Quality Is Job 1]

I don't know about Waller, but you're the only one in the country that would take Hanlen over Mitchell .... and yes I can speak for every other living soul in the US ... it's that clear cut.

Ha! Even Drew Hanlen would pick up Kwamain Mitchell before himself!

[STL Hoops Insider]

I don't know about Waller, but you're the only one in the country that would take Hanlen over Mitchell .... and yes I can speak for every other living soul in the US ... it's that clear cut.

I clearly said maybe. I think he's a better shooter than Mitchell and a better distributor than Cotto. He is a GREAT ballhandler and he is nearly impossible to press. If you dont think he's better at the very least he's on par with those guys and I saw Drew play all 4 years.