STLHI

[Cowboy]

it does no good if a kid is talented or super talented but can't qualify to get into school

[Majerus Magic]

SLU signed 8 guys in this year's recruiting class. Take a second and imagine if those 8 guys would've been Josh Harrellson, John Brandenburg, Anthony Booker, Jared Swopshire, Scott Suggs, Torres Roundtree and any two of Ron Waller/Cotto/Soderberg/Hanlen.

SLU signed 8 guys

I wholeheartedly agree with STLHI on this one. However, we can't expect this every year.

[STL Hoops Insider]

it does no good if a kid is talented or super talented but can't qualify to get into school

I agree to an extent, but it never hurts to get a commitment because they might choose the program again a la Tommie Liddell. Good players want to play with other good players.

[slufanskip]

I agree to an extent, but it never hurts to get a commitment because they might choose the program again a la Tommie Liddell. Good players want to play with other good players.

How many points do they give you for a committment?

A kid who doesn't qualify can't be listed as a kid who could have helped SLU, or as a big time recruit. He wouldn't have helped SLU, and he's not a big time recruit, regardless of who would have liked to have him.

I was a big time recruit, except that I'm slow and unathletic .... if it wasn't for those minor details ...

[TheChosenOne]

In the Big East, I was talking about Jared Swopshire. And you cant just say the jury is out on all these guys. They are obviously high-level recruits that SLU would've loved to have. And then you're trying to use MU's roster from last year as a guage of the talent in the state when most of the top talent said no thank you like Hansbrough, Releford, Tyus, etc. You forget that Grimes still had a year of eligibility remaining, but couldnt play for obvious reason. He was big-time national recruit who never got it going. MU has two in-state recruits coming in this year, and one of the nation's top pg's Micheal Dixon coming in next year after he chose MU or point guard U Arizona. This state has a ton of talent that feeds the power conference's every year. There have some top talents that just didnt qualify like 4 of Vashon's last 5 starting big, Gordon, Kern, Muse, and Powell, all big-time talents. Then you have kid like Richard Anderson who may not qualify. Back to the area. SLU missed out on guys Dane Brumagin who has been a dominant player at UMKC. Robert Archibald ended his career as a starter at Illinois, and there are other examples.

SLU signed 8 guys in this year's recruiting class. Take a second and imagine if those 8 guys would've been Josh Harrellson, John Brandenburg, Anthony Booker, Jared Swopshire, Scott Suggs, Torres Roundtree and any two of Ron Waller/Cotto/Soderberg/Hanlen.

SLU signed 8 guys

This really was the local/area class that if we could have gotten to Saint Louis U could have done some special things in my opinion. Tommie Liddel and Kevin Lisch could have been playing their senior season with a crop of talented players with local ties and it could have really gotten the community on board with this program. To date Majerus has been a swing and a miss in my opinion with the local sports fans (non-SLU alumns). There is still no excitement around the program, but that is not what is being discussed. You are talking about national recruits in our backyard in Scott Suggs, John Brandenburg, Anthony Booker, Torres Roundtree, and Jared Swopshire (local ties). That is a heck of a lot of talent that grew up in the city where you are the only Division I program. Granted we did get Cotto and John and I think they are nice players, but there were some guys who you can honestly say you could have built a program around. Throw in guys from KC like Marcus Denmon and Steve Moore, George Goode from Raytown, and Johnny Coy from St. Joseph and you realize there was a heck of a lot of talent in-state in that class and we did not get any of those top tier guys. Kramer Soderberg and Jesse Perry are two other area kids from 08 who could compete at a high level. And then in the following class you have Tyler Griffey who is another big-time national recruit who can pick his school and he gets away to the Illini and then you look at the KC area and they have a couple more high level recruits in Michael Dixon and Travis Releford. Obviously KC is closer to KU and Mizzou so I don't expect a real shot with those guys, but if we could have built some excitement with these local studs committing maybe kids on the other side of the state become interested. This was a huge class and the key gets all got away. If only Romar did not get swept away by Washington maybe he could have gotten these kids on board. If Suggs commits to SLU, maybe these guys would have taken notice and seen SLU as a more legitimate option. Instead we will be checking up on the Internet in a couple of years to see how these kids turned out.

I left out Brett Thompson who I think was a nice signing and I would consider an area kid.

Is Bryant Allen the only other guy who could be considered a high-level D-1 recruit from the area? Do we have a shot with him or is he going to go with football at the next level?

[cheeseman]

First of all, no school would be able to keep every local kid home so to list all the players that SLU should have kept and say they would have been a great team is not realistic - it is akin to saying if the Cardinals would sign every free agent on the market then they would have a great team. Most people would say the if you can sign 1/3rd of your top local talent you are probably doing very well. Second, if a kid is an academic causality then you have to drop him off the list since he is not available nor do you know if or when he ever will be available. It is one thing to stay in touch with the kid but another to say you should have signed him. Next, teams recruit by need not just by best available player. If you have plenty of guards that are young on your team then you have to recruit forwards or centers or swingmen and you might have to pass on a good local guard. My point is listing all the local players who are playing D1 ball somewhere or might have had the talent to play D1 ball and say SLU should have gotten all of them is not worthwhile. If you want to say there are 2-3 kids they should have worked harder to get then fine but not listing a whole team and say SLU screwed up by not having them as their team. Finally, every coach we have had or you hear talking about recruiting StL consistently says you can be successful recruiting locally here but you have to fill in with other kids from around the country simply because you can not get every local kid and sometime there are only really a handful of legit D1 kids in the StL area in a year. Therefore you might have a year or two in a 4 year period that you only land 1 or 2 local kids and you must fill in with others. This is silly argument - all of us would agree that we want SLU to keep as much of the local talent home as possible but we still want them to have a good team and that means getting players from where ever.

[STL Hoops Insider]

First of all, no school would be able to keep every local kid home so to list all the players that SLU should have kept and say they would have been a great team is not realistic - it is akin to saying if the Cardinals would sign every free agent on the market then they would have a great team. Most people would say the if you can sign 1/3rd of your top local talent you are probably doing very well. Second, if a kid is an academic causality then you have to drop him off the list since he is not available nor do you know if or when he ever will be available. It is one thing to stay in touch with the kid but another to say you should have signed him. Next, teams recruit by need not just by best available player. If you have plenty of guards that are young on your team then you have to recruit forwards or centers or swingmen and you might have to pass on a good local guard. My point is listing all the local players who are playing D1 ball somewhere or might have had the talent to play D1 ball and say SLU should have gotten all of them is not worthwhile. If you want to say there are 2-3 kids they should have worked harder to get then fine but not listing a whole team and say SLU screwed up by not having them as their team. Finally, every coach we have had or you hear talking about recruiting StL consistently says you can be successful recruiting locally here but you have to fill in with other kids from around the country simply because you can not get every local kid and sometime there are only really a handful of legit D1 kids in the StL area in a year. Therefore you might have a year or two in a 4 year period that you only land 1 or 2 local kids and you must fill in with others. This is silly argument - all of us would agree that we want SLU to keep as much of the local talent home as possible but we still want them to have a good team and that means getting players from where ever.

First of all, I'm not really sure anyone's arguing. Secondly, personally I would always recruit the best available players, not recruiting for need, because a great coach adjusts to their personnel, not the other way around. Just my opinion. Also, I never said SLU had to get every player that's D1 from the area, my point is that there is plenty of talent in the area and locking the borders should be a priority and if you can consistently get the top guys you will be a tournament team. I do feel like SLU should be the 1st one's to offer the Griffey's, Tyus', etc, because they can see those guys much more than any D1 and a kid like Bradley Beal should not have KU, Illinois, etc on him before SLU.

[cheeseman]

First of all, I'm not really sure anyone's arguing. Secondly, personally I would always recruit the best available players, not recruiting for need, because a great coach adjusts to their personnel, not the other way around. Just my opinion. Also, I never said SLU had to get every player that's D1 from the area, my point is that there is plenty of talent in the area and locking the borders should be a priority and if you can consistently get the top guys you will be a tournament team. I do feel like SLU should be the 1st one's to offer the Griffey's, Tyus', etc, because they can see those guys much more than any D1 and a kid like Bradley Beal should not have KU, Illinois, etc on him before SLU.

MU and IL would say they are closing their borders by keeping all the kids from MO and IL from going some place other than MU or IL. My point is everybody can not close their borders if their borders overlap. Tyus left StL and went to Cincy - correct, therefore he left the area and we had no more advantage for him then anyone else. It also was my understanding that Griffey was offered as a sophomore so offering first does not give you anymore chance to get the kid. I am not saying not to recruit locally - all I am saying is be realistic about how successful you can be in signing these kids.

[TheChosenOne]

First of all, no school would be able to keep every local kid home so to list all the players that SLU should have kept and say they would have been a great team is not realistic - it is akin to saying if the Cardinals would sign every free agent on the market then they would have a great team. Most people would say the if you can sign 1/3rd of your top local talent you are probably doing very well. Second, if a kid is an academic causality then you have to drop him off the list since he is not available nor do you know if or when he ever will be available. It is one thing to stay in touch with the kid but another to say you should have signed him. Next, teams recruit by need not just by best available player. If you have plenty of guards that are young on your team then you have to recruit forwards or centers or swingmen and you might have to pass on a good local guard. My point is listing all the local players who are playing D1 ball somewhere or might have had the talent to play D1 ball and say SLU should have gotten all of them is not worthwhile. If you want to say there are 2-3 kids they should have worked harder to get then fine but not listing a whole team and say SLU screwed up by not having them as their team. Finally, every coach we have had or you hear talking about recruiting StL consistently says you can be successful recruiting locally here but you have to fill in with other kids from around the country simply because you can not get every local kid and sometime there are only really a handful of legit D1 kids in the StL area in a year. Therefore you might have a year or two in a 4 year period that you only land 1 or 2 local kids and you must fill in with others. This is silly argument - all of us would agree that we want SLU to keep as much of the local talent home as possible but we still want them to have a good team and that means getting players from where ever.

Nobody is saying we should expect to sign every local kid, but the fact that we let a huge class completely leave the boarders is a little upsetting and from all accounts SLU didn't exactly finish a close second for any of these kids either. I think the whole point of the recent messages is that there was a heck of a lot of talent in the class of 08 in the state of Missouri and this was one of the more talented classes the area has seen in a while. We missed out on the top tier of those guys. I think the best example of what I would like to see from SLU is to take a look at what Pinkel has done at Mizzou. He has had a strong core of players from Missouri and plucked guys from Texas and other areas to add to that core. Now that they have had success and had success with local talent all the top kids in the state are giving Mizzou a hard look and the majority of them are committing to the Tigers. I think Lisch and Liddell could have had that impact, but they have not had the success (as a team) many would have anticipated with two cornerstones to build around for 4 years. If we had gotten some guys to go around those two and had some success local guys would have seen Liddell and Lisch doing big things in their own backyard and said why go somewhere else when I have this at home. Instead we have two local seniors who can't wait to get out and the program is no better off than when they came. No inroads have been made and local guys will continue to look for the school that gives them the best chance to play at a high level and have some success since SLU has not proven to be able to do that. This is where Majerus and his staff have to share their vision with these kids and get them onboard with staying home and playing for the local school and building something special here. Pinkel did this with in-state guys like Franklin, Rucker, Coffman, Maclin, William Moore and others. He got them to want to make that vision a reality and they have done that.

[Cowboy]

I think Lisch and Liddell could have had that impact, but they have not had the success (as a team) many would have anticipated with two cornerstones to build around for 4 years. If we had gotten some guys to go around those two and had some success local guys would have seen Liddell and Lisch doing big things in their own backyard and said why go somewhere else when I have this at home. .

Chosen - i agree with this part - i thought getting TL and KL was the program turning the corner - but the necessary pieces for a successful program were never put on the roster and it is a damn shame

[TheChosenOne]

MU and IL would say they are closing their borders by keeping all the kids from MO and IL from going some place other than MU or IL. My point is everybody can not close their borders if their borders overlap. Tyus left StL and went to Cincy - correct, therefore he left the area and we had no more advantage for him then anyone else. It also was my understanding that Griffey was offered as a sophomore so offering first does not give you anymore chance to get the kid. I am not saying not to recruit locally - all I am saying is be realistic about how successful you can be in signing these kids.

I would like to hear what Nate has to say about your comment with regards to being the first to offer or recruit a kid. I follow recruiting very closely (football) and I cannot tell you the number of times a guy Mizzou is recruiting says Mizzou is one of his top choices because they were the first to offer. I think a lot can be said about being the first in on a kid.

Also, just because a kid leaves the area for prep school does not mean he no longer has ties to the area. It would seem to show that individual likely does not put as much stock in staying home, but there is still that sales pitch of playing in your own backyard where you grew up and your family and friends can see you develop. If there are already local kids making a name for themselves at the local program it makes it a little bit easier and appealing to make that pitch. To get back to Lisch and Liddell, these two kids could have gone to BCS programs, but instead stayed home and had far less exposure and never sniffed the tournament, so we really have to start from the ground level.

You have to build that base and there is no better example than what is going on at Mizzou.

[Pistol]

Nobody is saying we should expect to sign every local kid, but the fact that we let a huge class completely leave the boarders is a little upsetting and from all accounts SLU didn't exactly finish a close second for any of these kids either. I think the whole point of the recent messages is that there was a heck of a lot of talent in the class of 08 in the state of Missouri and this was one of the more talented classes the area has seen in a while. We missed out on the top tier of those guys. I think the best example of what I would like to see from SLU is to take a look at what Pinkel has done at Mizzou. He has had a strong core of players from Missouri and plucked guys from Texas and other areas to add to that core. Now that they have had success and had success with local talent all the top kids in the state are giving Mizzou a hard look and the majority of them are committing to the Tigers. I think Lisch and Liddell could have had that impact, but they have not had the success (as a team) many would have anticipated with two cornerstones to build around for 4 years. If we had gotten some guys to go around those two and had some success local guys would have seen Liddell and Lisch doing big things in their own backyard and said why go somewhere else when I have this at home. Instead we have two local seniors who can't wait to get out and the program is no better off than when they came. No inroads have been made and local guys will continue to look for the school that gives them the best chance to play at a high level and have some success since SLU has not proven to be able to do that.

TheChosenOne and STLHI have been right on the money in this thread. You're not going to be able to sign every single local kid, true. However, SLU should be the very first school to come forward with offers to the big local names. If the kid has the itch to get out of town or has a dream school somewhere or has cash in his face or has a relationship with another coach or whatever, fine- that stuff happens. But SLU should be the one showing that commitment to the local talent.

I also agree with the fact that SLU could and should be building around a local core (e.g. Mizzou example above)- sign the best local talent and augment that core with the best players you can pluck from other spots. There is too much talent in the St. Louis area not coming to the only D1 school in town, and that needs to change. I think this class is a step in the right direction. This is where Soderberg was a failure- following up Tommie and Kevin with nothing was inexcusable. I think we all had the idea that those two were the building blocks for a very special program with a local core, but it's back to square one because of absolutely no help in the subsequent classes. Did you guys honestly think that when those two were seniors we'd be sitting here after a coaching change having to rebuild? I sure didn't, and I feel so bad for those guys for the way it worked out.

And the prep school thing is a good point, just look at Tommie. No matter how far they go they still have friends and family here, and we can't give up on them. Just as with the guys who never seriously considered SLU in the first place (e.g. David Lee, Loren Woods, etc.), we need to be going after these guys.

Romar understood the importance of chasing the best area talent. We may have been second or third place on a number of them, but we were at least in the conversation and getting closer. I hope Rick gets it, too.

[slufanskip]

This really was the local/area class that if we could have gotten to Saint Louis U could have done some special things in my opinion. Tommie Liddel and Kevin Lisch could have been playing their senior season with a crop of talented players with local ties and it could have really gotten the community on board with this program. To date Majerus has been a swing and a miss in my opinion with the local sports fans (non-SLU alumns). There is still no excitement around the program, but that is not what is being discussed. You are talking about national recruits in our backyard in Scott Suggs, John Brandenburg, Anthony Booker, Torres Roundtree, and Jared Swopshire (local ties). That is a heck of a lot of talent that grew up in the city where you are the only Division I program. Granted we did get Cotto and John and I think they are nice players, but there were some guys who you can honestly say you could have built a program around. Throw in guys from KC like Marcus Denmon and Steve Moore, George Goode from Raytown, and Johnny Coy from St. Joseph and you realize there was a heck of a lot of talent in-state in that class and we did not get any of those top tier guys. Kramer Soderberg and Jesse Perry are two other area kids from 08 who could compete at a high level. And then in the following class you have Tyler Griffey who is another big-time national recruit who can pick his school and he gets away to the Illini and then you look at the KC area and they have a couple more high level recruits in Michael Dixon and Travis Releford. Obviously KC is closer to KU and Mizzou so I don't expect a real shot with those guys, but if we could have built some excitement with these local studs committing maybe kids on the other side of the state become interested. This was a huge class and the key gets all got away. If only Romar did not get swept away by Washington maybe he could have gotten these kids on board. If Suggs commits to SLU, maybe these guys would have taken notice and seen SLU as a more legitimate option. Instead we will be checking up on the Internet in a couple of years to see how these kids turned out.

I left out Brett Thompson who I think was a nice signing and I would consider an area kid.

Is Bryant Allen the only other guy who could be considered a high-level D-1 recruit from the area? Do we have a shot with him or is he going to go with football at the next level?

Why would you think Romar might have gotten it done, he didn't do it while he was here and hasn't done much with his own recruits in Wash.

[STL Hoops Insider]

Nobody is saying we should expect to sign every local kid, but the fact that we let a huge class completely leave the boarders is a little upsetting and from all accounts SLU didn't exactly finish a close second for any of these kids either. I think the whole point of the recent messages is that there was a heck of a lot of talent in the class of 08 in the state of Missouri and this was one of the more talented classes the area has seen in a while. We missed out on the top tier of those guys. I think the best example of what I would like to see from SLU is to take a look at what Pinkel has done at Mizzou. He has had a strong core of players from Missouri and plucked guys from Texas and other areas to add to that core. Now that they have had success and had success with local talent all the top kids in the state are giving Mizzou a hard look and the majority of them are committing to the Tigers. I think Lisch and Liddell could have had that impact, but they have not had the success (as a team) many would have anticipated with two cornerstones to build around for 4 years. If we had gotten some guys to go around those two and had some success local guys would have seen Liddell and Lisch doing big things in their own backyard and said why go somewhere else when I have this at home. Instead we have two local seniors who can't wait to get out and the program is no better off than when they came. No inroads have been made and local guys will continue to look for the school that gives them the best chance to play at a high level and have some success since SLU has not proven to be able to do that.

This was a great post. 2010 is the next chance for redemption. Scheer and Dwyer are the cream of the crop in my opinion, but this class has a lot of depth. The kid Maurice Burns from Whitfield can be as good as he wants to be. He's a 6'2 point guard with a college body, that can get to the basket at will. He had an injury that forced him to miss a large chunk of the season last year as well as some AAU. IF he improves his jumpshot and looks to score everytime he can be a dominant force. His teammate Alex Rudd is 6'5 and can really shoot it. He's more than a shooter, he has some really nifty moves in open space. Wendell Crowder of Cardinal Ritter is a 6'1 pg from Ritter and I really think he's gonna have a breakout year if they turn him loose this year. He can really shoot the ball, he can finish above the rim with ease and he can create his own shot off the dribble and for others. Eric Clark, a 6'3 guard for Cardinal Ritter is good at slashing to the basket, has good athleticism and an ever improving jumpshot. Other guys from this class that have a chance to play D1 ball are guard Scott Pohle of Parkway South, guard Tyler Ressel or Borgia, guard Gerald Jones of Berkeley, guard Devonte Bell of Clayton, guard Tywan Brooks of Brentwood, forward TJ Brown of Crossroads, forward William Triggs of E'ville, center Ryan Pierson of CBC, and guard Brier West of Soldan HS. For Ressel, Bell, and Brooks, their potential is limited if they dont grow, and maybe the same for Maplewood's Bryton Hobbs A couple of guys that are good that I think are gonna play football in college are guard Derrick Dilworth of Webster Groves, and guard Marquise Hill of Trinity. A few guys I'll be watching this year to see if they can take the next step are Chris Babbitt of Haz. Central, Garnett Davis, and McPherson Moore of MICDS.

2011 already appears strong with Beal, Boga, Daniels, McLemore, Keante Minor and incoming transfer Christian Kirk, I believe the younger brother of Kyle Kirk.

[STL Hoops Insider]

Why would you think Romar might have gotten it done, he didn't do it while he was here and hasn't done much with his own recruits in Wash.

His own recruits Martell Webster and Spencer Hawes played a combined for one year for him so that hurt as much as anything.

[TheChosenOne]

This was a great post. 2010 is the next chance for redemption. Scheer and Dwyer are the cream of the crop in my opinion, but this class has a lot of depth. The kid Maurice Burns from Whitfield can be as good as he wants to be. He's a 6'2 point guard with a college body, that can get to the basket at will. He had an injury that forced him to miss a large chunk of the season last year as well as some AAU. IF he improves his jumpshot and looks to score everytime he can be a dominant force. His teammate Alex Rudd is 6'5 and can really shoot it. He's more than a shooter, he has some really nifty moves in open space. Wendell Crowder of Cardinal Ritter is a 6'1 pg from Ritter and I really think he's gonna have a breakout year if they turn him loose this year. He can really shoot the ball, he can finish above the rim with ease and he can create his own shot off the dribble and for others. Eric Clark, a 6'3 guard for Cardinal Ritter is good at slashing to the basket, has good athleticism and an ever improving jumpshot. Other guys from this class that have a chance to play D1 ball are guard Scott Pohle of Parkway South, guard Tyler Ressel or Borgia, guard Gerald Jones of Berkeley, guard Devonte Bell of Clayton, guard Tywan Brooks of Brentwood, forward TJ Brown of Crossroads, forward William Triggs of E'ville, center Ryan Pierson of CBC, and guard Brier West of Soldan HS. For Ressel, Bell, and Brooks, their potential is limited if they dont grow, and maybe the same for Maplewood's Bryton Hobbs A couple of guys that are good that I think are gonna play football in college are guard Derrick Dilworth of Webster Groves, and guard Marquise Hill of Trinity. A few guys I'll be watching this year to see if they can take the next step are Chris Babbitt of Haz. Central, Garnett Davis, and McPherson Moore of MICDS.

2011 already appears strong with Beal, Boga, Daniels, McLemore, Keante Minor and incoming transfer Christian Kirk, I believe the younger brother of Kyle Kirk.

What do you think about the kids from Chaminade STLHI? I hear Hannah and Beal put up some numbers as freshmen and is Lockhart a college player? I saw Hannah play football last year and the kid had some size for a 9th grader.

[ACE]

I would like to hear what Nate has to say about your comment with regards to being the first to offer or recruit a kid. I follow recruiting very closely (football) and I cannot tell you the number of times a guy Mizzou is recruiting says Mizzou is one of his top choices because they were the first to offer. I think a lot can be said about being the first in on a kid.

Also, just because a kid leaves the area for prep school does not mean he no longer has ties to the area. It would seem to show that individual likely does not put as much stock in staying home, but there is still that sales pitch of playing in your own backyard where you grew up and your family and friends can see you develop. If there are already local kids making a name for themselves at the local program it makes it a little bit easier and appealing to make that pitch. To get back to Lisch and Liddell, these two kids could have gone to BCS programs, but instead stayed home and had far less exposure and never sniffed the tournament, so we really have to start from the ground level.

You have to build that base and there is no better example than what is going on at Mizzou.

Much of your criticism pertains to the previous coach. I don't know if you noticed, but things have already changed. We got four nice players from the region, some of whom had BCS offers. If Conklin and Mitchell were from the area, you'd be thrilled to have them. KM had an offer from Minnesota. Things have changed. Your post would have been good a couple years ago.

"You have to build that base and there is no better example than what is going on at Mizzou." - I assume you are talking about thier football program, because if you said this about the basketball program, it would have to be a joke Who cares about college football. We're talking about college basketball recruiting. Talk about what Xavier and Gonzaga have done to build their programs if you want to make a relevant comparison. I think RM knows what he is doing.

[GOSLU68]

This really was the local/area class that if we could have gotten to Saint Louis U could have done some special things in my opinion. Tommie Liddel and Kevin Lisch could have been playing their senior season with a crop of talented players with local ties and it could have really gotten the community on board with this program. To date Majerus has been a swing and a miss in my opinion with the local sports fans (non-SLU alumns). There is still no excitement around the program, but that is not what is being discussed. You are talking about national recruits in our backyard in Scott Suggs, John Brandenburg, Anthony Booker, Torres Roundtree, and Jared Swopshire (local ties). That is a heck of a lot of talent that grew up in the city where you are the only Division I program. Granted we did get Cotto and John and I think they are nice players, but there were some guys who you can honestly say you could have built a program around. Throw in guys from KC like Marcus Denmon and Steve Moore, George Goode from Raytown, and Johnny Coy from St. Joseph and you realize there was a heck of a lot of talent in-state in that class and we did not get any of those top tier guys. Kramer Soderberg and Jesse Perry are two other area kids from 08 who could compete at a high level. And then in the following class you have Tyler Griffey who is another big-time national recruit who can pick his school and he gets away to the Illini and then you look at the KC area and they have a couple more high level recruits in Michael Dixon and Travis Releford. Obviously KC is closer to KU and Mizzou so I don't expect a real shot with those guys, but if we could have built some excitement with these local studs committing maybe kids on the other side of the state become interested. This was a huge class and the key gets all got away. If only Romar did not get swept away by Washington maybe he could have gotten these kids on board. If Suggs commits to SLU, maybe these guys would have taken notice and seen SLU as a more legitimate option. Instead we will be checking up on the Internet in a couple of years to see how these kids turned out.

I left out Brett Thompson who I think was a nice signing and I would consider an area kid.

Is Bryant Allen the only other guy who could be considered a high-level D-1 recruit from the area? Do we have a shot with him or is he going to go with football at the next level?

Vienna, Il is 143 miles from St. Louis and Pinckneyville, il is 73 miles from St. Louis-both South East and I would say the newspaper coverage and TV has to be St. Louis or Memphis or Chicago when you talk about the big city escapade. I would consider downstate Illinois our area and we obviously lose kids to SIU-but better students are going to want to go away some of the time so we are going to get dayschoolers in St. Louis and fringe metro coverage we can pull but they may not have competition the

equivalent of St. Louis and St. Charles just because of populations. Central Illinois you have a ton of choices if you are a good student from University of Illinois to Bradley, Eastern, Western, Ill State, Indiana State,

We could still be in that mix Porter Moser could play a big role for us; it may be no coincidence that we

were recruiting Ohio players when Biancardi came from their and we look forward to having a rough and

ready Aussie added to our team in the near future-hopefully 6-10 Chris Heinrich mentality

[STL Hoops Insider]

What do you think about the kids from Chaminade STLHI? I hear Hannah and Beal put up some numbers as freshmen and is Lockhart a college player? I saw Hannah play football last year and the kid had some size for a 9th grader.

Hannah will have his pick of schools as a WR or Safety. He's a ridiculous athlete who had 2 tip dunks in a game last year. I think Hannah will definitely play football in college. I thought Beal was good, but I'll admit I didnt think he would blow up like he has. I honestly think that if Ben McLemore is as good as Beal and I dont mean that as a knock on Beal. Lockhart is defintely a college basketball player, I'm just not sure if its at the D1 level. If he can prove he's a pg he has a chance because I dont think he's a good enough scorer to be a 2 guard in college. He's a leader though and the surprising victories over Berkeley last year showed me a lot. Hannah told me last year that they have another freshman in their class who's bigger than him that supposed to be pretty good as well, but I forget his name.

[TheChosenOne]

Much of your criticism pertains to the previous coach. I don't know if you noticed, but things have already changed. We got four nice players from the region, some of whom had BCS offers. If Conklin and Mitchell were from the area, you'd be thrilled to have them. KM had an offer from Minnesota. Things have changed. Your post would have been good a couple years ago.

"You have to build that base and there is no better example than what is going on at Mizzou." - I assume you are talking about thier football program, because if you said this about the basketball program, it would have to be a joke Who cares about college football. We're talking about college basketball recruiting. Talk about what Xavier and Gonzaga have done to build their programs if you want to make a relevant comparison. I think RM knows what he is doing.

I am sure it was hard to figure out what sport I was talking about when I mentioned Pinkel and players William Moore, Chase Coffman, Jeremy Maclin, William Franklin, and Martin Rucker. In case you are not aware Gary Pinkel is the football coach of the Missouri Tigers who happen to find themselves in the top 5 after years of mediocrity. Sure there are plenty of differences, but there are plenty of similarities that can be drawn as well. Especially with respect to how Pinkel built his program from the ground up and had to sell his vision to local recruits and reach for kids from Texas and elsewhere based on his staff identifying kids and getting to them before the big time programs came in. Now the program is rolling and he can have his pick of in-state kids for the most part. This is very relevant. SLU is where the Mizzou football program was 4 years ago. Why not look at the success they have had and use that as a roadmap?

I don't care who the coach is, we still lost a significant amount of talent from our own backyard and it is frustrating no matter how you look at it.

[STL Hoops Insider]

I understand exactly what you're trying to say, but I dont think you can win this argument because it will always come back to someone telling you football and basketball are different, and they are right, but I get your point and actually getting Cotto is very similar to what MU did year ago. Carl Gettis and Devion Moore like Cotto moved to the area from other states for their senior seasons. The two running backs ended up signing with the local school. Gettis started as a true freshman last season at corner and Moore is oozing with potenital at running back and will the #2 guy next season. Hopefully Cotto can work his magic at SLU. Alton has quietly has 3 D1 signees in the last 4 years.

[ACE]

I am sure it was hard to figure out what sport I was talking about when I mentioned Pinkel and players William Moore, Chase Coffman, Jeremy Maclin, William Franklin, and Martin Rucker. In case you are not aware Gary Pinkel is the football coach of the Missouri Tigers who happen to find themselves in the top 5 after years of mediocrity. Sure there are plenty of differences, but there are plenty of similarities that can be drawn as well. Especially with respect to how Pinkel built his program from the ground up and had to sell his vision to local recruits and reach for kids from Texas and elsewhere based on his staff identifying kids and getting to them before the big time programs came in. Now the program is rolling and he can have his pick of in-state kids for the most part. This is very relevant. SLU is where the Mizzou football program was 4 years ago. Why not look at the success they have had and use that as a roadmap?

I don't care who the coach is, we still lost a significant amount of talent from our own backyard and it is frustrating no matter how you look at it.

I don't care about college football. I sure wouldn't want to follow Mizzou's lead in basketball. If you are going to follow a "roadmap", I would prefer to follow the roadmap of Xavier and Gonzaga in basketball. It is much more relevant to the discussion. You're two years too late with your criticism. Majerus is turning it around with recruiting and the university is showing a commitment by upgrading the facilities. You may not be aware of this. Majerus has a little experience building programs. I don't think he needs help with a "roadmap."

[Guest BillikenReport]

I don't think it has been an issue with SLU in the past in terms of offering kids early, because I believe Soderberg was the first to offer Tyler Griffey and that happened before Griffey even started high school. I also heard that SLU offered Kyle Kirk when he was a freshman at Fort Zumwalt West. I'm sure there are many more examples.

The bigger problem for SLU during the Soderberg era was identifying what kids to offer. This has been discussed repeatedly on this board, so I'm not going to bring up names of who was offered scholarships and who was not.

I've been saying here for years that SLU needs to build with local players to build interest in the program and to get future recruits excited about playing at SLU. BS had a great core with Kevin Lisch, Tommie Liddell, Luke Meyer and Dwayne Polk but wasn't able to build around those guys.

The dynamic has changed now with Rick Majerus and the Chaifetz Arena. I don't know if SLU will ever consistently get the best kids out of St. Louis, but they will get some here and there. There might only be two kids from this area in the class of 2009 that Majerus wants and both appear headed elsewhere. Tyler Griffey picked Illinois. Bryant Allen may choose to play football somewhere instead.

The class of 2008 was very strong locally and SLU got five guys with area ties: Brett Thompson, Femi John, Ruben Cotto, Kyle Cassity and Daniel Lisch. Willie Reed was recruited by the previous coaching staff. I don't consider Thompson and Cassity as local guys, but they both have ties to the area and played for summer teams here. Majerus was hired after Anthony Booker and Torres Roundtree had committed to Southern Illinois. By the time of the hiring, John Brandenburg had already decided he wanted to go away for school. Jared Swopshire probably already had an offer from SLU a couple years ago but moved away from the St. Louis area to get more exposure. Scott Suggs had a preexisting relationship with the coach he chose to sign with.

Majerus went after the local kids, got a couple of them, and then found players he liked elsewhere (Mitchell, Conklin, Reed) to fill in the other spots.

[STL Hoops Insider]

I don't think it has been an issue with SLU in the past in terms of offering kids early, because I believe Soderberg was the first to offer Tyler Griffey and that happened before Griffey even started high school. I also heard that SLU offered Kyle Kirk when he was a freshman at Fort Zumwalt West. I'm sure there are many more examples.

The bigger problem for SLU during the Soderberg era was identifying what kids to offer. This has been discussed repeatedly on this board, so I'm not going to bring up names of who was offered scholarships and who was not.

I've been saying here for years that SLU needs to build with local players to build interest in the program and to get future recruits excited about playing at SLU. BS had a great core with Kevin Lisch, Tommie Liddell, Luke Meyer and Dwayne Polk but wasn't able to build around those guys.

The dynamic has changed now with Rick Majerus and the Chaifetz Arena. I don't know if SLU will ever consistently get the best kids out of St. Louis, but they will get some here and there. There might only be two kids from this area in the class of 2009 that Majerus wants and both appear headed elsewhere. Tyler Griffey picked Illinois. Bryant Allen may choose to play football somewhere instead.

The class of 2008 was very strong locally and SLU got five guys with area ties: Brett Thompson, Femi John, Ruben Cotto, Kyle Cassity and Daniel Lisch. Willie Reed was recruited by the previous coaching staff. I don't consider Thompson and Cassity as local guys, but they both have ties to the area and played for summer teams here. Majerus was hired after Anthony Booker and Torres Roundtree had committed to Southern Illinois. By the time of the hiring, John Brandenburg had already decided he wanted to go away for school. Jared Swopshire probably already had an offer from SLU a couple years ago but moved away from the St. Louis area to get more exposure. Scott Suggs had a preexisting relationship with the coach he chose to sign with.

Majerus went after the local kids, got a couple of them, and then found players he liked elsewhere (Mitchell, Conklin, Reed) to fill in the other spots.

This says it all, season opener. I'd like to let it go, but I just cant figure it out.

http://prepsports3.stltoday.com/basketball...vent227309.shtm

[TheChosenOne]

I don't care about college football. I sure wouldn't want to follow Mizzou's lead in basketball. If you are going to follow a "roadmap", I would prefer to follow the roadmap of Xavier and Gonzaga in basketball. It is much more relevant to the discussion. You're two years too late with your criticism. Majerus is turning it around with recruiting and the university is showing a commitment by upgrading the facilities. You may not be aware of this. Majerus has a little experience building programs. I don't think he needs help with a "roadmap."

Xavier has the huge advantage of recruiting from a basketball hot bed in Ohio. If you don't think my example is relevant that is fine. Xaiver is certainly a program I would like to be compared to, I just think success in a city like Cincinnati and the talent Ohio turns out makes it a different situation. Regardless it sounds like you are extremely confident that Majerus will turn things around, so we don't really need to look to anyone except bow to Majerus and sit back and enjoy.