davidnark Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Charlie Spoonhour's First Three Seasons at SLU: 1992-93 Saint Louis 12-17 1-9 6th in Great Midwest 1993-94 Saint Louis 23-6 8-4 2nd in Great Midwest NCAA 1st Round 1994-95 Saint Louis 23-8 8-4 2nd in Great Midwest NCAA 2nd Round Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLUDrew Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Charlie Spoonhour's First Three Seasons at SLU: 1992-93 Saint Louis 12-17 1-9 6th in Great Midwest 1993-94 Saint Louis 23-6 8-4 2nd in Great Midwest NCAA 1st Round 1994-95 Saint Louis 23-8 8-4 2nd in Great Midwest NCAA 2nd Round I think a great contemporary example is Billy Gillespie at Kentucky. He literally MADE two program at UTEP and Texas A&M. Steve Lavin called him a miracle worker for what he did to those programs. Now his Kentucky team is 7-7 and lost at home to Gardner Webb. By the way we are talking about KENTUCKY. You know, the winningest program in the history of college basketball. Anyway, how we is it that we can expect Majerus who is taking over a program lacking any real tradition to win right away without a pg, any sort of frontcourt, or any depth whatsoever, but Gillespie gets a chance to rebuild at a program where blue chippers call you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG BILL FAN Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 I think a great contemporary example is Billy Gillespie at Kentucky. He literally MADE two program at UTEP and Texas A&M. Steve Lavin called him a miracle worker for what he did to those programs. Now his Kentucky team is 7-7 and lost at home to Gardner Webb. By the way we are talking about KENTUCKY. You know, the winningest program in the history of college basketball. Anyway, how we is it that we can expect Majerus who is taking over a program lacking any real tradition to win right away without a pg, any sort of frontcourt, or any depth whatsoever, but Gillespie gets a chance to rebuild at a program where blue chippers call you? Apparently, it is quite easy to find fault with RM....and please don't point out our perceived shortcomings, they are just figments of our imagination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjray Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 David and others, I am tired (more than tired) of the "I dare you challenge Rickma" threads. Your point is unprovable. The point of the challengers is unprovable. Give it a rest. This is a very bad Billikens season. No one can question that. Whether it is Brad or Rickma or Father Biondi's fault is really just a silly thing to debate. We are where we are. Can Rickma turn the ship around? That is the question. The next two years will answer that question. My greatest hope lies not in Rickma's supposed wizardry as a basketball tactician but, rather, in his recruiting. Next year should be interesting. The year after even more so. This year is lost. Grin and bear it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdolwick Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 I think a great contemporary example is Billy Gillespie at Kentucky. He literally MADE two program at UTEP and Texas A&M. Steve Lavin called him a miracle worker for what he did to those programs. Now his Kentucky team is 7-7 and lost at home to Gardner Webb. By the way we are talking about KENTUCKY. You know, the winningest program in the history of college basketball. Anyway, how we is it that we can expect Majerus who is taking over a program lacking any real tradition to win right away without a pg, any sort of frontcourt, or any depth whatsoever, but Gillespie gets a chance to rebuild at a program where blue chippers call you? UK is a good parallel. Of course, after losing badly to Louisville at home, you can bet that Billy G got it about 100X worse than what RM is getting. It is the nature of the beast & the beast is easily-agitated in the Commonwealth. Anyway, RM will get his time to rebuild SLU. A little carping on a message board won't hurt anyone. Pat D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdolwick Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 David and others, I am tired (more than tired) of the "I dare you challenge Rickma" threads. Your point is unprovable. The point of the challengers is unprovable. Give it a rest. This is a very bad Billikens season. No one can question that. Whether it is Brad or Rickma or Father Biondi's fault is really just a silly thing to debate. We are where we are. Can Rickma turn the ship around? That is the question. The next two years will answer that question. My greatest hope lies not in Rickma's supposed wizardry as a basketball tactician but, rather, in his recruiting. Next year should be interesting. The year after even more so. This year is lost. Grin and bear it. I agree wholeheartedly w/ this. These arguments are more pointless than our night at the Smith Center. Pat D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 I agree wholeheartedly w/ this. These arguments are more pointless than our night at the Smith Center. Pat D. Yeah, it's pointless, but it's fun. Which our night at the Smith Center wasn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted January 16, 2008 Author Share Posted January 16, 2008 When a contingent of fans (or maybe not fans) are ready to label Majerus a failure because he hasn't worked wonders in his first half a season, I think it is very relavant to look at the first-year record of the most successful coach in modern Billiken history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3Jack Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 I think a great contemporary example is Billy Gillespie at Kentucky. He literally MADE two program at UTEP and Texas A&M. Steve Lavin called him a miracle worker for what he did to those programs. Now his Kentucky team is 7-7 and lost at home to Gardner Webb. By the way we are talking about KENTUCKY. You know, the winningest program in the history of college basketball. Anyway, how we is it that we can expect Majerus who is taking over a program lacking any real tradition to win right away without a pg, any sort of frontcourt, or any depth whatsoever, but Gillespie gets a chance to rebuild at a program where blue chippers call you? Billy Gillespie and Kentucky huh? Kentucky's coach last year is now at Minnesota and has taken a team that was 9-22 last year and they are 12-3 this year. He must be a miracle worker. Wonder why Kentucky fired him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinfootes Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Charlie Spoonhour's First Three Seasons at SLU: 1992-93 Saint Louis 12-17 1-9 6th in Great Midwest 1993-94 Saint Louis 23-6 8-4 2nd in Great Midwest NCAA 1st Round 1994-95 Saint Louis 23-8 8-4 2nd in Great Midwest NCAA 2nd Round David, you left out a pretty major piece of the puzzle. SLU was 5-23 the year before Spoon started. People were pretty happy with 12-17 as I recall. Spoon inherited a good group of youngsters and quickly turned them into a good team. Note: I'm not posting this as an RM vs. Spoon message, just trying to put things in perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NashvilleBilliken Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 When a contingent of fans (or maybe not fans) are ready to label Majerus a failure because he hasn't worked wonders in his first half a season, I think it is very relavant to look at the first-year record of the most successful coach in modern Billiken history.Is there a contingent of people labeling Majerus a failure? I've seen one maybe two people who think that. Unfortunately, this is quickly taking the mold of a Soderberg vs. Anti-Soderberg debate. I.e everybody gets labeled (we've already has several topics calling out different "labels") and no real discussion occurs...only emotional bickering. That being said, the main problem with the whole thing is that outside of the 100 people who frequent this board, nobody has a clue why we are in this situation. They only know that we now have a celebrity Million dollar coach and the billikens suck...again. And even if you hadn't been paying attention, you definitely caught our 20 point ass woopin by GW on Sportscenter. That's bad, and frankly, if one is not bothered by that performance, I'd have to question that fan's objectivity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3Jack Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Is there a contingent of people labeling Majerus a failure? I've seen one maybe two people who think that. Unfortunately, this is quickly taking the mold of a Soderberg vs. Anti-Soderberg debate. I.e everybody gets labeled (we've already has several topics calling out different "labels") and no real discussion occurs...only emotional bickering. That being said, the main problem with the whole thing is that outside of the 100 people who frequent this board, nobody has a clue why we are in this situation. They only know that we now have a celebrity Million dollar coach and the billikens suck...again. And even if you hadn't been paying attention, you definitely caught our 20 point ass woopin by GW on Sportscenter. That's bad, and frankly, if one is not bothered by that performance, I'd have to question that fan's objectivity. Good post Nashville. I have probably been the most outspoken critic of Majerus and not once have I labeled him a failure or anything close to that. It is strawman arguments like this that run rampant on this board and don't advance the discussion a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted January 16, 2008 Author Share Posted January 16, 2008 I have probably been the most outspoken critic of Majerus and not once have I labeled him a failure or anything close to that. You are either delusional or a liar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG BILL FAN Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 David, you left out a pretty major piece of the puzzle. SLU was 5-23 the year before Spoon started. People were pretty happy with 12-17 as I recall. Spoon inherited a good group of youngsters and quickly turned them into a good team. Note: I'm not posting this as an RM vs. Spoon message, just trying to put things in perspective. The Key Word here is that Spoon inherited a GOOD group of youngsters, which he did a good job with. RM, with few exceptions (Tommie, Luke, and Kevin) inherited a BAD grroup of veterans and a BAD group of youngsters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3Jack Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 You are either delusional or a liar. Fine give me a link to me calling him a failure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 The Key Word here is that Spoon inherited a GOOD group of youngsters, which he did a good job with. RM, with few exceptions (Tommie, Luke, and Kevin) inherited a BAD grroup of veterans and a BAD group of youngsters. well that is what our hall of fame coach has told us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 It didn't take a Hall of Fame coach to recognize that this team had major holes - no center, no true pf, a point guard who can't score and no depth at the 1, 4 and 5. Other then that, everything is dandy. Some of us pointed these things out every time the recruiting periods would roll around in the fall and spring, but some fans just chose to bury their heads in the sand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Before one starts offering that Spoon did this with Grawer's recruits, let's remember that while that is true for Clagg and Hmark, I believe it was Spoon and Derrick Thomas that went out and got Waldman, Dobbs, Robinson, Campbell, Turner and the others on those two NCAA teams. And even if I'm off on a couple of those, the point is that you need to mesh multiple pieces. Tell me Dobbs would have done what he did on the inside with this team as opposed to that team. That team had multiple long range bombers who were all GOOD. Without them, the middle does not open to the degree it did and Dobbs isn't considered any better than Luke is currently playign out of position. Plus the perspective coming off a five win season means that anything is an improvement, even 12 wins. The reverse is true now --- we are coming off a 20 win season. As for Tubbs at Minnesota, I'd look to see who he has played to date for one. I always like Tubby but the fan base at Kentucky considers everything below a national title a failure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Billy Gillespie and Kentucky huh? Kentucky's coach last year is now at Minnesota and has taken a team that was 9-22 last year and they are 12-3 this year. He must be a miracle worker. Wonder why Kentucky fired him.Kentucky didn't fire Tubby Smith. He fled that pressure cooker. I'm not saying that he wasn't run out of there, but he wasn't fired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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