My MVC Rant

[davidnark]

http://billikenbasketball.blogspot.com/200...o-mvc-talk.html

[slu72]

Once again, Nark, we are in total agreement...I'd still like to see a better conference come to fruition some day where someone could possibly entice the better programs of both the MVC and the A-10 to get together and form a "Super Mid Major" but until that happens or doesn't happen, I'm content with us staying in the A-10. Yes, the MVC's had a nice run, especially SIU, but in the long run the A-10 will be the better situation for SLU.

[StLouBlue]

I have really tried to stay out of this whole MVC debate recently on this board because I don't believe SLU will be changing conferences anytime soon. I think the reasons for why SLU is in the A10 are still in place--name and presence on east coast to attract students and in place for next conference shuffle. I also believe though and have maintained this position since before SLU joined the A10, that SLU could join the MVC and be part of the success of the conference.

The MVC has had 3 very successful years and I expect the conference to have many more as well. The schools in the MVC are commonly described as regional universities. In a basketball sense that is exactly true of the A10. The A10 is only national in the sense of academics, which play almost no part in the MBB program. The schools of the MVC have made similar commitments to the MBB programs that SLU is now only doing because it hired RM. Most MVC programs have upgraded salaries of their head coaches. Most MVC programs have upgraded facilities within the last few years. Most MVC programs have been doing very good jobs at recruiting regionally or beyond. These are all things that SLU is just now getting around to.

In the A10 there are some solid programs in St Joe, Xavier and Dayton with UMass, GW, SLU and Charlotte close behind. The largest problem with the A10 is the bottom programs and if they will ever put in place a solid program that make them successful year in and year out. The bottom teams in the MVC are certainly not happy with their position as the bottom teams--the 4 bottom teams all have new coaches hired this off season. The other problem with the A10 is there seems to be little excitement for the programs in their cities, with Dayton, SLU & Xaiver being the exceptions.

Your argument that their is a ceiling that will only allow the programs in the MVC to attain a certain level of success is interesting, but I am not sure accurate. Programs like SIU & Creighton have risen to the level of near top 25 programs for the last several years. Programs like Bradley, WSU, UNI and Ill St, I think can get there as well. Even programs like Ind St, Drake & Evansville have at least as much potential as programs like Duq, St Bonny, LaSalle and Fordham and probably much more.

So far the MVC has done a much better job of taking over the role that CUSA used to have in MBB as the best of the non-BCS conferences. In CUSA it had top programs like Louisville, Cincinnati & Marquette that did most of the heavy lifting while most other programs were of that regional university type as you called it. I don't think SIU & CU are at the level of Louis, Cinc & Marq were in CUSA, but might only be a few years away from it.

So yes I agree that SLU will not be joining the MVC anytime soon. But I do maintain the SLU in the MVC could be a very good thing for our MBB program because unlike most I think the MVC has not hit its peak at this point and will see even more success in the near future.

[inthelou]

Until SLU dominates the A-10 and it becomes an easy means to an end of getting in the NCAA tournament and advancing, the local media will continue to sneer at it. They don't understand the A-10 and they don't "get it" and they probably never will "get it." As long as more than half the conference is in far-flung locations and East Coast based Burwell, Miklasz and others would much rather beat the drums for Chris Lowery, Barry Hinson, et al.

The best thing we can do is stop being defensive about it and start winning and winning big. Only that will silence them.

[Abe Froman]

you talk about the MVC being made up of "regional" universities, but go to US News and you'll see that a majority of the A-10 schools are also considered "Regional" universites.

People like to talk about the A-10 being in major media markets, but what good is being in a big media market when the schools are so far down the pecking order, schools like LaSalle, Duquense, Charlotte, and Fordham that they are luckly to get coverage on page 3 of the sports section, and others like UMass, URI, Richmond, Xavier, Temple and GW can only hope to peak at #2 or #3 in a good year?

[cheeseman]

StLBlue - Two things: 1. If SIUC and Creighton have cracked the glass ceiling as you say then explain why the MVC only got 2 bids this year even though they had such a successful year as a conference supposedly - I say it was because they were sealed in by the glass ceiling. 2. CUSA was not a mid major conf. when it came to BB. CUSA was considered like a BCS conf. - Louisville, Cincy, Marquette, DePaul, Memphis all made CUSA much different then the MVC. CUSA got 3-5 bids routinely to the NCAA. The MVC is nowhere close to that.

[kevinfootes]

SLU wins the A10 baseball tourney at Fordham last year and has to take a BUS ride home and then fly to California a couple of days later for the NCAAs. Are you f-ing kidding me?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? Bus rides from New York!!!!!!!!! That had to take at least 20 hours.

The A10 absolutely sucks for a program like SLU in every sport except men's basketball. Even for men's basketball it's just okay.

(Unless, of course, Larry's spending spree will extend to the rest of the athletic department)

I also don't really buy your "national" instituions argument for the A10. St. Bonnie, Duquense, RI, Charlotte, etc. Heck, many of these schools play in glorified D2 gyms.

That said, I don't think SLU should switch conferences. All of this conference hopping has gotten very little for SLU over the years and contributes to the overall lack of interest. SLU has no rivals, and every few years we're supposed to care about new teams. Let's see ... we're supposed to hate Evansville and Detroit, no wait Dayton and DePaul, now we don't care about Dayton any more but we hate Southern Miss and East Carolina, no wait we now hate St. Bonnie's and U Mass and we hate Dayton again.

At some point SLU has to commit to being in a conference, even a poorly run conference like the A10. If you look at conferences like the Big 10, every game is a rivalry (except for maybe Penn St.) That's what SLU needs IMO.

[StLouBlue]

As far as NCAA bids go, it has been a strange couple of years, especially if you are a MVC fan. The MVC has performed very well on the court, non-conference & in the NCAAs, but the NCAA tourney committee has been slow to see it. The MVC has to continue winning games and they will get the credit in the long run, eventually the committee will see 3 sweet 16 teams in 2 years shows some of the strength of the conference. I don't think the MVC has broken any ceilings yet, but I also don't think they have hit their peak either.

As far as the CUSA, my point was once it broke up those 3-5 bids just didn't transfer to the BE. There was an opening for another conference to step in and grab some of those bids. Right now the MVC has done the best job of doing that. I don't remember CUSA being considered an equal to the BCS conferences either--it was considered a step below BCS and a step above the mid-majors like A10 & MVC. I agree that the MVC isn't where the old CUSA was, but give it a few more years and we can look again.

[Dungeon Yankee]

I liked your post except for the following. Your comment about the Big 10 and that every game is a rivalry except for maybe Penn State is an incorrect generalization. Have you ever been to a Penn State v Ohio State game in any sport? Conversely, how is Northwestern v Ohio State a rivalry in any sport?

Perhaps you'd like to clarify.

[Basketbill]

I think for SLU there is still hope that the ceiling is much higher than for MoS,siu etc. Perhaps the only exception in the MVC is Creighton, simply because of altman. His fickleness with regard to wanting to stay at CU, was our blessing with regard to the Majerus hire.

For SLU I believe there is still the possiblity that Majerus can raise our level of competition, that puts us in play for the next realignment. At that point if nothing better than the MVC is available so be it. But until then lets enjoy the ride on the Majerbus.

[BLIKNS]

I miss the Great Midwest Conference.

[MusicCityBilliken]

nm

[kevinfootes]

my point is that you develop rivalries over the years. Perhaps I was exaggerating a bit, but the stable conference have traditional rivalries that have developed. Since Penn St. is a relative newcomer, it might not be at the same level yet for the all of the Big 10 teams. If you switch confrences every 7 or 8 years this sort of thing doesn't happen.

I think Northwestern v Ohio State is a much better rivalry than SLU v Richmond. In 5 or 10 years that may be different, but not right now.

[Dungeon Yankee]

Thanks.

[mcglotherirvin]

i disagree. first, ind st, drake, and evansville do not have as much potential as duq, st. bonny, lasalle, or fordham.

duquesne actually has a top25 recruiting class coming. not a single team in teh mvc is in the top 25. st. bonny is down because of recent problems but 6 years ago st. bonny would have been one of the best teams in the mvc. lasalle has had decent years. fordham is in nyc - lots of potential that evansville, drake and ind st just do not have.

[inthelou]

He's got to be lovin' it.

[StLouBlue]

I see more potential in those MVC schools. Without looking I am pretty sure attendance is much better at all of the MVC schools, St Bonny could be the exception. I will give you St Bonny as having some potential, but they still have a long ways to go to turn their program around. Evansville had some very nice years under Crews and the town really supported them--I think they can get back to this level. Ind St is only about 6 or 7 years removed from a couple NCAA tourney appearances and of course has that whole Larry Bird run that most people remember. Drake has been down for some time, but did get a winning record for the first time in a very long time this year. Drake kind of fits with a Northwestern in the B10 though--never really getting much success.

Is that Duq top 25 recruiting class rated at rivals or scout or is it a hoopscoop rating? Just wondering because the hoopscoop rating is a joke--it just adds up points given per player and really favors quantity or quality.

[TheBand]

but what good is being in a big media market when

>the schools are so far down the pecking order, schools like

>LaSalle, Duquense, Charlotte, and Fordham that they are

>luckly to get coverage on page 3 of the sports section, and

>others like UMass, URI, Richmond, Xavier, Temple and GW can

>only hope to peak at #2 or #3 in a good year?

The answer is "WHERE" you are getting that coverage. Are you getting it on page three in a metro area such as Philadelphia, New York, Cincinnati, Wash DC...or are you getting it in Ohmaha, Wichita, Springfield, Carbondale.

The possible "highs" (in terms of media coverage) of the A-10 are much higher than the possible highs in the MVC just based on the market size.

I don't argue with you about the "pecking order" statement, it is very true that the A-10 schools are the smaller fish in those markets, but its a bigger overall pond.

[Box and Won]

Northwestern vs. Ohio State in football is pretty decent. The Wildcats beat the Buckeyes just a couple of years ago.

[Dungeon Yankee]

if you classify NW and OSU as a rivalry in football, then all of PSU v Big Ten is a rivalry in football. Where PSU falters is in the area of men's basketball.