ACE Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 I see Soderberg catching some heat for going after Grimes and other players labeled as "blue chippers." Some are worried that we can't get these guys and have compared it to Romar's near misses with blue chippers. The difference is that the "blue chippers" Soderberg is going after have local ties, compared to the guys Romar targeted, who were largely from the West Coast. I applaud Coach Brad for going after these guys. It's much more realistic to land a premier player with local ties, than it is one who is from as far away as California. Crean was able to land some top national prospects who had local ties, and look at how well it worked for him. Keep it up Brad! I don't fault him at all for going after players like Kalen Grimes if the kid is showing interest. He IS going to land his share of local players who the so-called big time schools want. He will have to if his dream of a Final Four is to be achieved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 "I don't fault him at all for going after players like Kalen Grimes if the kid is showing interest" That's the problem. Grimes was just paying us lip service. Any regular attendee of Hawks games knew he wasn't coming here. Other than Brandon Morris not qualifying, this is the only recruiting boo boo the staff has made since they've been here, which is a good thing. If we continue to pick our recruiting battles smartly, we'll be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 Everything we've heard about the recruitment of Shaw by SIU leads me to believe UB may have thought he had a better shot at Grimes,i.e. Painter's long term wooing of Matt, so you can't fault UB for going after Grimes. And there weren't any other D1 PF's lurking in the bushes. Wouldn't you love to be a fly on the wall during recruiting discussions? Can imagine this one going like: "Well, Shaw's 80% in SIU's pocket, Grimes is undecided but we're 4th or 5th on his list. It's a crap shoot. Let's go after Grimes since they're both long shots to come here. If Kalen declines, we offer Shaw, who'll probably decline too. Hold the scholie and try and land an undecided JUCO PF in the spring." Another thought, if UB is going hard after the best locals why aren't we ever mentioned in connection with Hansborough? Could it be we just know there's no shot at all, i.e. "don't waste your time or mine.?" I'm betting this is why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schasz Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 No way would I take any shots at Coach Soderberg on the recruiting surrounding either Masters Grimes or Shaw. Frankly, none of us really know any of the specifics and it is just pure speculation on anyones part. I will never be upset with our coaching staff if they go after highly rated local (St. Louis Metro area) talent, as long as in their judgment the kid is giving them the right signals to continue hot pursuit. Let's face it that is a judgment call for the coaching staff to make, and just like many other recruting battles...you win some and you lose some. With some successful NCAA appearances we should be able to sell the better kids in the area that SLU is a viable option to going away to school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 How can you say going after Grimes ... if we really did go that hard after him ... was a mistake. Do you know specifically how hard we went after him, or how soft or late we went after Shaw? You say anyone who went to a game with Grimes knew he wasn't interested ... Do you know what Kalen said to Brad behind closed doors? I'm not trying to get on you ... I just don't see how you could call it a mistake unless you really know the inside information on what was said or happenning. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 i dont consider, darius miles, david lee, jimmy mckinney and nick kern out of the area "blue chippers". coach romar spent a lot of time pursuing all five of the above players and got deep on all except for maybe lee, who did not have us on his final final list by july that year. so your point is not really true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLouBlue Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 I remember hearing that Grimes or his parents stated that what they were looking for was a school close enough where they could see his games and also a school where he could get a good education. Certainly SLU fits both of these criteria. Also I am sure Brad was pushing him being part of a great local class with Polk, Liddel & Meyer. I think Grimes would be going to Illinois if Self was still there, and maybe when the coaching changes started happening, Brad thought he might have a good shot at Grimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 i will forgive coach soderberg on morris. first off i think morris verballed before the ncaa juco rule change came out. second, even then it was a worthy risk as morris missed out by one class. for as good as morris apparently is (leads his wisconsin green bay team in most categories) he was worth the risk. plus, with morris, soderberg had an agreement from him. grimes was just stringing him along and was never considering the billikens imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 real good post slu72. i cant argue with a single point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted January 27, 2004 Author Share Posted January 27, 2004 >i dont consider, darius miles, david lee, jimmy mckinney and >nick kern out of the area "blue chippers". coach romar >spent a lot of time pursuing all five of the above players >and got deep on all except for maybe lee, who did not have >us on his final final list by july that year. so your point >is not really true. Darius Miles? Come on. How can you criticize Soderberg for recruiting Grimes, yet apologize for Romar spending "a lot of time" on Darius Miles. That wasn't realistic. Focusing recruiting efforts on top local recruits seems a little more realistic than spending a lot of time on kids who live halfway across the country - Sampson, Hayes, Williams, etc. - as Romar did. How do you know Grimes was just leading us along and Jimmy McKiney, who Romar pursued, wasn't? I think Brad's approach to recruiting is a lot more realistic and is quickly proving to be a lot more effective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schasz Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 Thank God, we don't have to worry about the snake oil salesman anymore and might I add at 7-8 he's not burning it up at his new haunt either. I don't see too many more sure W's on the rest of his schedule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 Roy, I don't think anyone is questioning that Romar went after those you listed but the problem is he did not obviously get deep enough to get any of them and maybe had he not spent so much time chasing others he might have gotten some on your list - who knows it is all guesses on everybody's part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 we were miles second choice behind st johns and it wasnt known he was going pro before may of the following year. if miles had come to slu he would have done some great things. i am not apologizing for it. i wrote yesterday that i thought it ironic that now that brad is here there are now those complaining he doesnt chase the bigger name recruits more often. i pointed out that the one he did may have cost him big. then it is claimed that if the big name recruit is local that is ok to chase unlike romar who only chased west coast kids. i again correctly point out that he didnt JUST chase west coast kids. i am on record for saying that i agree coach romar's method didnt work and that we already have proof that when brad dabbled in chasing the pot of gold player it backfired. otherwise, i think brad has made extremely great recruiting decisions and signings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 no cheeseman, the problem is that he DID get deep enough. deep enough to play it to the end. had all told him no in april or may, we would have had time to switch gears. most took him to november to make their choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 I understand what you are saying Roy - what I am saying is if he was really that deep then he would have gotten somebody locally. He should have at some point simply said I need to know by such and such date or I will give the scholarship to someone else - no hard feelings. Now I know you will say if he did that then the kid would just say ok - no -but at least Romar would have been able to move on. I am not trying to compare us to Duke or whoever but we simply were not in a position to take a chance to loose a kid unless we really felt good about our chances. Now you can say that Romar felt good about his chances and I will buy that but maybe he really was not a good judge of when people were being honest with him or simply giving him lip service. As I have said before, the coach is successful only if he can recruit and if he is not adept at reading kids then he ultimately pays and Romar paid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted January 28, 2004 Author Share Posted January 28, 2004 Roy, Still don't know why you praise Romar for going after McKinney, yet criticize Soderberg for going after Grimes. How do you know McKinney's interest in SLU was more sincere than Grimes interest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 Roy - why do you say that when Brad chased the pot of gold he lost. I think he did get the pot of gold with TL. If Romar had batted 500 we would have been King's Row. The problem is he batted 000 - except for Hollins and I am still not convinced he ever would have shown up. I also am not counting Kern since he was not even a partial qualifier so Romar should have known that it was useless to even sign him in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 again, i am not praising romar. i just said above that looking back, i dont think he did the right thing. my whole point is that i dont understand why others are defending brad but ripping on romar for the act. i just used mckinney as an example of a local recruit that romar pursued long and hard and got to the end with. never said he did the right thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 cheeseman said, "Roy - why do you say that when Brad chased the pot of gold he lost. I think he did get the pot of gold with TL." i was talking about grimes. not liddell. cheeseman said, "If Romar had batted 500 we would have been King's Row. The problem is he batted 000 - except for Hollins and I am still not convinced he ever would have shown up." romar brought us fisher and sloan as well. both are vital cogs to this current team. he also recruited edwin, who hindsight was a headcase, but edwin was highly decorated out of high school. the illinois class A poy as a junior. Cheeseman said, "I also am not counting Kern since he was not even a partial qualifier so Romar should have known that it was useless to even sign him in the first place." no arguing that. however he was an extremely highly ranked local player and a big part of this string is why didnt he chase local players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 Roy, I know you were refering to Grimes - my point was that Brad did get a local high rated star in TL where Romar never did. As far as Kern was concerned, most of us did not know that his grades and test scores were such a disaster - if we did we would have questioned his signing of Kern in the first place. Truth is the only reason Romar got him was because everyone else knew he was a lost cause - Romar should have known better. As far as Fish and CS are concerned, Fish transfered to SLU when Romar came - I doubt he would have signed with us had Romar been recruiting him when he was at SLU and not Pepperdine. Sloan has been a good player for us but he was not a highly rated player in high school - at least when you compare players on the national level. If you want to widen the net of good players recruited then lets add Polk and Meyers to Brad column - who can you add to Romar's? Edwin once again was someone who most passed up on because he was not allowed to play bb his senior year. Had he played his senior year no telling who would have been battling for him. Another wounded duck for Romar. I will give you Mclain but unfortunately he was always hurt - not Romar's fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted January 28, 2004 Author Share Posted January 28, 2004 Why do you think Soderberg should've made Shaw a bigger priority than Grimes? There's no guarantee that Shaw would've come here if Brad simply had spent more time recruiting him. That seems highly speculative on your part. As for Romar, outside of Sloan, he didn't have success locally(Kern was a zero). He missed on Phillip Gilbert and Mo Baker. But hey, we were in the running for Hayes, Sampson, and the other west coast guys... woo-hoo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 who did romar miss out on locally that would be considered a "national recruit"? david lee, who else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 the fact that shaw made a couple of unofficial visits to slu surely showed he was very interested. he showed a lot more interest than grimes did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 Well, by the same token, some people may suggest or even have suggested that the only reason Brad Soderberg was able to sign Tommie Liddell is that there were questions from other schools about his ability to qualify (like Kern for Romar) and that the only reason he was able to sign Dwayne Polk is that other schools were concerned about whether he could recover from his knee injury. Furthermore, the same thing you can say about Romar's getting Chris Sloan can be said about Soderberg's get Luke Meyer. What I'd prefer to believe is that Soderberg landed those players because he evalutated well, he worked hard, and the recruits like him and the situation. I also think that the recruits Lorenzo Romar got reflect his ability to evaluate, how hard he worked, and how the recruits liked him and the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 Roy - Mckinney was highly ranked - I am sure there was another one or two I am not thinking of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.