billiken_roy Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 huzzah said, "Recently the Post Dispatch asked people what sport they would persue in the interim between the Super Bowl and baseball spring training. Hockey came in first at 40%. SLU came in last at 2%. In a poll on local sportscasters, also by the Post, Bob Ramsey came in last. This is not because of his talent level, but rather reflects the lack of interest in SLU basketball. Thus Brad has had no media impact here as also evidenced by his absence in local commercials. He became head coach because of affordability." i have been wrestling this morning with just disappearing or making a final appearance to say so long. and as i read this post by one of my favorite posters (that never posts enough imo) it became obvious that the vehicle to point out my frustrations with the direction this board has went and continues to go is best illustrated by this billikens.com all star poster, huzzah. huzzah obviously believes that it is brad soderberg's fault that slu finished last in these two stltoday.com polls. i believe that a good marketing dept and a proactive sports information department could make dick chaney or al gore look electric as our head coach and should shoulder the blame for those poll results more than coach soderberg. there lies the problem to the increased polarization of the board imo. a group of posters see the overall billiken athletic department as a much greater problem to billiken success. a second group of posters think the program is fine and if we had the second coming of a combination of john wooden and al mcguire that we could hire from mcneese state we'd win the national championship next year. a third group will defend every aspect of the saint louis university program and blame the splintered groups for talking bad about the program as our problem. and a fourth group, thrives on just hating slu and likely is here to only cause problems and stoke the love of the billikens of all of the three groups. the end result is that this board whether davidnark and steve want to believe it or not, is headed for a cyber judgement day. sure it may go on forever, but at some point, one of the groups will disappear completely and one group will more certainly take over. sure you might have 1,000 registered posters, but the reality will be that there will be less real intelligent debate and the "family" of billikens.com will be in name only. imo, for steve to even believe that there is a simple answer that not only wont hurt anyone's feelings, it will bring everyone to the same page and happy days, well unless mike conley turns into larry bird over the weekend, that just isnt going to happen. i believe building saint louis university basketball, be it the men or the women's team is a long long project. the courtside's of the board (and i dont mean to single courtside out as much as just label the group that think a new coach is the end all answer), naively believe that the john wooden/al mcguire guy is out there. i say we wouldnt know it if he walked in the front door at a bargain price. in fact, he would be out the door and on his way to seattle (i.e we had it) before anyone realized it and in fact be telling him as he left "dont let the door hit you....." (we did that) even our current all star coach, shimmy gray, who i just think is the second comimg in women's college basketball, isnt winning. and sure she is playing kids, but the fact is, she has had a couple of bingo recruiting classes and is one game out of the cellar. the truth is she is fighting the same battle that brad fights and i believe can only do so much without the infrastructure to back her up. until then she can over achieve and maybe get to the tourney occasionally, but there cant be any kind of immediate long term success with the budget we got. i digress. the polarization of the board has become more than i can stand. it sure isnt fun to come here and now fight with posters that i long thought to be friends. and i cant see where i am contributing anything but additional angst to what is the obvious majority of the board. at least the majority of the active board. which brings me to the question. what is this board really made up of posterwise? does anyone for one second believe the "registered" posters to this board is really 797 individuals? i dont. i dont have any idea how many are legitimate names and active posters and duplicate posters with multiple cyber names, etc. but i dont think it is 797 individuals. plus, how many of that 797 contribute to the meaningful discussion? i dont know about everyone else, but we used to have a hell of a lot more fruitful discussions in the day we had 200 posters than we do now with 4 times that. and sure i have contributed to the mayhem. but i also have tried many times to start threads with a different subject matter only to have someone from one of the other splintered groups turn the thread around for no apparent reason other than to attack soderberg or to personally attack one of the posters. last one of the few times of my life i have ever agreed with kevin slaten is message boards. for the life of me, i dont understand anonomous message boards. no one goes to a dinner party with a mask on and a voice scrambler to have discussions. why are folks allowed to visit message boards in total disguise under some moniker that hides their identity and allows them to viciously attack as message boards do. i understand we have posters that are likely insiders that wouldnt post if they had to post under their real identities, but the truth is we probably have more people that post trying to make us believe they are a former coach or player or big time booster or some sort of insider when they are not. the fact so many refuse to identify themselves and truly put their personal reputation on the line when they make some of the most defaming and outrageous attacks and claims is far far worse. i will never post that way. in my opinion if you dont have the guts to say it under your own name, then you shouldnt have been saying it in the first place. and for anyone to not understand that imo is a small person. if you are hiding your identity because you arent supposed to be posting from your place of employment or something like that, well that is a legitimate reason, but on the other hand, why are you posting then at all? i would love to find that small discussion group that wants to chat on the internet for convienence sake, but also knows each other and considers each other a friend and would easily carry that discussion to the corner bar when convienent with no fears of retribution or embarrassment of what was said. and note, i am not saying that everyone has to be in agreement. as many have said, that would be a pretty dull conversation. i will be the first to admit that the debate is what i come to the message boards for. but how can anyone deny that the debate amongst friends is the best and most enjoyable debate one can have? imo, a messageboard should be "cheers" on line. billikens.com used to be just that. so besides just not being any fun anymore, i think that i have become a target that ruins any possible discussions, and second, i have myself let my strong opinions get in the way of continuing some of the meaningful discussions about the real reason we should be here, the billikens. so i'm out. i no longer want to participate and i think my participation is no longer right for the group that now controls the discussions of billikens.com. i have no intention of leaving cyber message boards and will likely participate in discussions at the a-10 board, or stltoday.com or the lounge. but unless the rules of engagement change, i cant see where i can any longer contribute to billikens.com constructively considering the current makeup of the active input folks here. i think my presense actually plays against saint louis university and the billikens, and if i am hurting anything to do with the billikens, i am sorry and need to go. i hope to see you all at the games and anytime anyone wants to talk billikens with me, my passion wont change. bring it on. just not at www.billikens.com good luck to you all. 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NashvilleBilliken Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 While I feel some of your same frustrations, I'd urge you to reconsider. You've been on this board for a long time and are certainly among the most passionate and notorious Billiken fans out there. Hell, I've never seen so many people have vendettas against one guy they've never even met...you must be doing something right. If the past 6 months are any indication, the posters you speak of come and go. They may come on and stir things up, but they aren't in it for the long hall. Generally a couple weeks then they get bored. I really think there are less posters that do bad than you think. As much as it riles me up to read Nark's, KShoe, courtside, and Drew's posts, we know they are in it for the long haul.They are Billiken fans to the core, but are quite upset about what's going on. We're all passionate about the program, and that leads to highly emotional conversations. The key is to ignore the Johnny come latelies. If some guy comes on here and posts just a hating/negative comment out of the gate, I'd ignore the guy. That's what you do in real life. The Billikens are at a crossroads right now. Which, unfortunately, may get ugly. But if we all act rational and ignore those who don't, i think the problem will take care of itself. I've made personal attacks lately, which I probably shouldn't have done. But things get heated sometimes. Either way, I would hope people could tell the difference between me making a comment during a debate that gets out of hand and somebody who is just being an ass. If we can collectively differentiate and alienate, I think things will be ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLUDrew Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 I would urge Roy to reconsider as well. Out of the thousands of posts he has had I have probably agreed without about 7 of them, but that's what these boards are about; intelligent debate about a topic we are all passionate about. This program is at a crossroads. With the new arena under construction we will have an opprtunity to really take this program to a new level or fall farther into the college basektball abyss. Some think Brad is the guy to get us there and some don't. But like I have said, how boring would a message board like this be if we all agreed on everything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 I think the last few days created the perfect storm of things that set people off on this board. We got thumped in a game. We lost a recruit who verballed really early. We had 72 start up the Ahearn debate again. All that just gets everybody fired up in all the camps and it exploded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Latsch Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 Very good post, Nashville. Roy, As much as you have disagreed with me on a couple things, I've always liked and respected you — even though we only met once. Like some of the others, I urge you to continue posting often here. Please don't give up on the board. I would guess that over the years this board has added more to your enjoyment of following SLU than it has taken away from it. - Nate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlecat455 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 I think you better stay, Roy. It's not about you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry the Legend Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Wow, are we all going to get in a group hug now? While I never want to see a board member leave, we don't need to kiss this guy's as@! Roy, there have been lively debates lately and yes I do agree that some people do come on here just to stir things up but isn't that what debates are all about. I applaud all of the work and effort you have put into this board but stop the complaining. Also, no one is forcing you to even respond to some of the nonsense that is posted here. Personal attacks, well that is a different story, and I am sure that has come and gone in the past. So while I might not have agreed with many of your posts I think you should stop this sympathy trip and either stay on or get off. We are all grown ups here and chose to post or not. I chose to read this board for years and made a decision to sign up this year. Does that make me a lesser Billiken fan? Does that make me inferior to all of the other "regulars" on this board? HELL NO!! I am a fan just like the rest of us and am entitled to make and post my opinions and post discussions with others whether I agree or disagree with them. Larry the Legend continues......holla! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 I just mentioned his name...and then reposted and gave my mea culpas. I am not to blame for starting this firestorm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 You baited the hook. We bit. I am not saying you are responsible. A lot of people have acted like asses the last couple days , myself included. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huzzah Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Roy I am sorry to be the proverbial straw that broke your back. I think you expressed your opinion on coach in a cogent manner. I have never met you, but I always respected your opinion and the discussions we have had on the board have always been objective and not personal. I root for SLU and want them to do the best, to emulate Marquette and Gonzaga. My opinions are value judgments and not absolutes. I apoligize for upsetting you. I know we agree on the following: Many Huzzahs to our beloved Billikens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 "If it doesn't come, bite your tongue. The Kool Aid Clubbers have won the day" What is the point of that post? Do you really feel that even the people who support Brad the strongest, want him to stay because they want us to fail? "Fans who enjoy mediocrity, go figure." Anyone who doesn't agree with you accepts mediocrity, is that it? Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would have helped club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Believe it or not, Skip, that was a concession post. He's here for the next two years, no sense fighting it out any longer. Does it matter that I think he's not getting it done? No. So, I'm reconciled with the fact, we'll most likely be pulling for a mediocre program for two more years. As to the defenders of UB, yes to me it seems they have greater priorities than winning and dancing. Kind of the attitude of "Billikens, love Brad or Leave 'it." I'm a Bills fan, not a Brad fan, but his presence doesn't stop me from cheering for the Bills. If you're in Atlantic City, I'll buy you a beer. You can smile at yours, UB will most likely have me crying in mine. But....I certainly hope not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLUDrew Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 At the beginning of the year we were almost all in agreement that Brad deserved this season to see what he could accomplish with Ian, Tommie, and Kevin. I also seem to remember the majority of people agreeing that with the talent on this team if Brad didn't make the tournament, he should be let go. Jump forward to the present. The team is on the outside looking in at the frickin' NIT. The NCAA tournament is a pipe dream at this point. Now people are saying Brad deserves to stay regardless of how this season plays out because he has an inside track on the very talented '08 class. Mind you that he has shown very little ability in the past to land top tier talent, but I guess somehow he is going to be able to pull it off this time with some help from his son. If he doesn't land the best from the '08 class, then this program could be in real trouble. With the new arena we have a chance to take this program to new heights. We will have a brief honeymoon where we will be focused on by the media and watched by recruits. However that window will quickly close if we continue to be mediocre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STLfan Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 "the end result is that this board whether davidnark and steve want to believe it or not, is headed for a cyber judgement day. sure it may go on forever, but at some point, one of the groups will disappear completely and one group will more certainly take over. sure you might have 1,000 registered posters, but the reality will be that there will be less real intelligent debate and the "family" of billikens.com will be in name only." Reading this made me think of tigerboard. Most of the quality posters don't post there much anymore and instead use the pay forums like Powermizzou where the membership is smaller but dedicated and there aren't trolls from other schools posting just for the sake of causing havoc. I'm not saying Billikens.com is going to become tigerboard but reading the above that is the first thing that I thought of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NH Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 goodbye roy, I havent always agreed with you, but you were one of the main contributors to this board, you will be missed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 >huzzah said, > >"Recently the Post Dispatch asked people what sport they >would persue in the interim between the Super Bowl and >baseball spring training. Hockey came in first at 40%. SLU >came in last at 2%. In a poll on local sportscasters, also >by the Post, Bob Ramsey came in last. This is not because of >his talent level, but rather reflects the lack of interest >in SLU basketball. Thus Brad has had no media impact here as >also evidenced by his absence in local commercials. He >became head coach because of affordability." > >i have been wrestling this morning with just disappearing or >making a final appearance to say so long. and as i read >this post by one of my favorite posters (that never posts >enough imo) it became obvious that the vehicle to point out >my frustrations with the direction this board has went and >continues to go is best illustrated by this billikens.com >all star poster, huzzah. > >huzzah obviously believes that it is brad soderberg's fault >that slu finished last in these two stltoday.com polls. > >i believe that a good marketing dept and a proactive sports >information department could make dick chaney or al gore >look electric as our head coach and should shoulder the >blame for those poll results more than coach soderberg. > >there lies the problem to the increased polarization of the >board imo. > >a group of posters see the overall billiken athletic >department as a much greater problem to billiken success. a >second group of posters think the program is fine and if we >had the second coming of a combination of john wooden and al >mcguire that we could hire from mcneese state we'd win the >national championship next year. > >a third group will defend every aspect of the saint louis >university program and blame the splintered groups for >talking bad about the program as our problem. and a fourth >group, thrives on just hating slu and likely is here to only >cause problems and stoke the love of the billikens of all of >the three groups. > >the end result is that this board whether davidnark and >steve want to believe it or not, is headed for a cyber >judgement day. sure it may go on forever, but at some >point, one of the groups will disappear completely and one >group will more certainly take over. sure you might have >1,000 registered posters, but the reality will be that there >will be less real intelligent debate and the "family" of >billikens.com will be in name only. > >imo, for steve to even believe that there is a simple answer >that not only wont hurt anyone's feelings, it will bring >everyone to the same page and happy days, well unless mike >conley turns into larry bird over the weekend, that just >isnt going to happen. > >i believe building saint louis university basketball, be it >the men or the women's team is a long long project. the >courtside's of the board (and i dont mean to single >courtside out as much as just label the group that think a >new coach is the end all answer), naively believe that the >john wooden/al mcguire guy is out there. > >i say we wouldnt know it if he walked in the front door at a >bargain price. in fact, he would be out the door and on his >way to seattle (i.e we had it) before anyone realized it and >in fact be telling him as he left "dont let the door hit >you....." (we did that) > >even our current all star coach, shimmy gray, who i just >think is the second comimg in women's college basketball, >isnt winning. and sure she is playing kids, but the fact >is, she has had a couple of bingo recruiting classes and is >one game out of the cellar. the truth is she is fighting >the same battle that brad fights and i believe can only do >so much without the infrastructure to back her up. until >then she can over achieve and maybe get to the tourney >occasionally, but there cant be any kind of immediate long >term success with the budget we got. > >i digress. the polarization of the board has become more >than i can stand. it sure isnt fun to come here and now >fight with posters that i long thought to be friends. and i >cant see where i am contributing anything but additional >angst to what is the obvious majority of the board. at >least the majority of the active board. > >which brings me to the question. what is this board really >made up of posterwise? does anyone for one second believe >the "registered" posters to this board is really 797 >individuals? i dont. i dont have any idea how many are >legitimate names and active posters and duplicate posters >with multiple cyber names, etc. but i dont think it is 797 >individuals. > >plus, how many of that 797 contribute to the meaningful >discussion? i dont know about everyone else, but we used to >have a hell of a lot more fruitful discussions in the day we >had 200 posters than we do now with 4 times that. and sure >i have contributed to the mayhem. but i also have tried >many times to start threads with a different subject matter >only to have someone from one of the other splintered groups >turn the thread around for no apparent reason other than to >attack soderberg or to personally attack one of the posters. > >last one of the few times of my life i have ever agreed with >kevin slaten is message boards. for the life of me, i dont >understand anonomous message boards. no one goes to a >dinner party with a mask on and a voice scrambler to have >discussions. why are folks allowed to visit message boards >in total disguise under some moniker that hides their >identity and allows them to viciously attack as message >boards do. > >i understand we have posters that are likely insiders that >wouldnt post if they had to post under their real >identities, but the truth is we probably have more people >that post trying to make us believe they are a former coach >or player or big time booster or some sort of insider when >they are not. > >the fact so many refuse to identify themselves and truly put >their personal reputation on the line when they make some of >the most defaming and outrageous attacks and claims is far >far worse. i will never post that way. in my opinion if >you dont have the guts to say it under your own name, then >you shouldnt have been saying it in the first place. and >for anyone to not understand that imo is a small person. > >if you are hiding your identity because you arent supposed >to be posting from your place of employment or something >like that, well that is a legitimate reason, but on the >other hand, why are you posting then at all? > >i would love to find that small discussion group that wants >to chat on the internet for convienence sake, but also knows >each other and considers each other a friend and would >easily carry that discussion to the corner bar when >convienent with no fears of retribution or embarrassment of >what was said. > >and note, i am not saying that everyone has to be in >agreement. as many have said, that would be a pretty dull >conversation. i will be the first to admit that the debate >is what i come to the message boards for. but how can >anyone deny that the debate amongst friends is the best and >most enjoyable debate one can have? imo, a messageboard >should be "cheers" on line. billikens.com used to be just >that. > >so besides just not being any fun anymore, i think that i >have become a target that ruins any possible discussions, >and second, i have myself let my strong opinions get in the >way of continuing some of the meaningful discussions about >the real reason we should be here, the billikens. so i'm >out. i no longer want to participate and i think my >participation is no longer right for the group that now >controls the discussions of billikens.com. > >i have no intention of leaving cyber message boards and will >likely participate in discussions at the a-10 board, or >stltoday.com or the lounge. but unless the rules of >engagement change, i cant see where i can any longer >contribute to billikens.com constructively considering the >current makeup of the active input folks here. i think my >presense actually plays against saint louis university and >the billikens, and if i am hurting anything to do with the >billikens, i am sorry and need to go. > >i hope to see you all at the games and anytime anyone wants >to talk billikens with me, my passion wont change. bring it >on. just not at www.billikens.com good luck to you all. 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courtside Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 >huzzah said, > >"Recently the Post Dispatch asked people what sport they >would persue in the interim between the Super Bowl and >baseball spring training. Hockey came in first at 40%. SLU >came in last at 2%. In a poll on local sportscasters, also >by the Post, Bob Ramsey came in last. This is not because of >his talent level, but rather reflects the lack of interest >in SLU basketball. Thus Brad has had no media impact here as >also evidenced by his absence in local commercials. He >became head coach because of affordability." > >i have been wrestling this morning with just disappearing or >making a final appearance to say so long. and as i read >this post by one of my favorite posters (that never posts >enough imo) it became obvious that the vehicle to point out >my frustrations with the direction this board has went and >continues to go is best illustrated by this billikens.com >all star poster, huzzah. > >huzzah obviously believes that it is brad soderberg's fault >that slu finished last in these two stltoday.com polls. > >i believe that a good marketing dept and a proactive sports >information department could make dick chaney or al gore >look electric as our head coach and should shoulder the >blame for those poll results more than coach soderberg. > >there lies the problem to the increased polarization of the >board imo. > >a group of posters see the overall billiken athletic >department as a much greater problem to billiken success. a >second group of posters think the program is fine and if we >had the second coming of a combination of john wooden and al >mcguire that we could hire from mcneese state we'd win the >national championship next year. > >a third group will defend every aspect of the saint louis >university program and blame the splintered groups for >talking bad about the program as our problem. and a fourth >group, thrives on just hating slu and likely is here to only >cause problems and stoke the love of the billikens of all of >the three groups. > >the end result is that this board whether davidnark and >steve want to believe it or not, is headed for a cyber >judgement day. sure it may go on forever, but at some >point, one of the groups will disappear completely and one >group will more certainly take over. sure you might have >1,000 registered posters, but the reality will be that there >will be less real intelligent debate and the "family" of >billikens.com will be in name only. > >imo, for steve to even believe that there is a simple answer >that not only wont hurt anyone's feelings, it will bring >everyone to the same page and happy days, well unless mike >conley turns into larry bird over the weekend, that just >isnt going to happen. > >i believe building saint louis university basketball, be it >the men or the women's team is a long long project. the >courtside's of the board (and i dont mean to single >courtside out as much as just label the group that think a >new coach is the end all answer), naively believe that the >john wooden/al mcguire guy is out there. > >i say we wouldnt know it if he walked in the front door at a >bargain price. in fact, he would be out the door and on his >way to seattle (i.e we had it) before anyone realized it and >in fact be telling him as he left "dont let the door hit >you....." (we did that) > >even our current all star coach, shimmy gray, who i just >think is the second comimg in women's college basketball, >isnt winning. and sure she is playing kids, but the fact >is, she has had a couple of bingo recruiting classes and is >one game out of the cellar. the truth is she is fighting >the same battle that brad fights and i believe can only do >so much without the infrastructure to back her up. until >then she can over achieve and maybe get to the tourney >occasionally, but there cant be any kind of immediate long >term success with the budget we got. > >i digress. the polarization of the board has become more >than i can stand. it sure isnt fun to come here and now >fight with posters that i long thought to be friends. and i >cant see where i am contributing anything but additional >angst to what is the obvious majority of the board. at >least the majority of the active board. > >which brings me to the question. what is this board really >made up of posterwise? does anyone for one second believe >the "registered" posters to this board is really 797 >individuals? i dont. i dont have any idea how many are >legitimate names and active posters and duplicate posters >with multiple cyber names, etc. but i dont think it is 797 >individuals. > >plus, how many of that 797 contribute to the meaningful >discussion? i dont know about everyone else, but we used to >have a hell of a lot more fruitful discussions in the day we >had 200 posters than we do now with 4 times that. and sure >i have contributed to the mayhem. but i also have tried >many times to start threads with a different subject matter >only to have someone from one of the other splintered groups >turn the thread around for no apparent reason other than to >attack soderberg or to personally attack one of the posters. > >last one of the few times of my life i have ever agreed with >kevin slaten is message boards. for the life of me, i dont >understand anonomous message boards. no one goes to a >dinner party with a mask on and a voice scrambler to have >discussions. why are folks allowed to visit message boards >in total disguise under some moniker that hides their >identity and allows them to viciously attack as message >boards do. > >i understand we have posters that are likely insiders that >wouldnt post if they had to post under their real >identities, but the truth is we probably have more people >that post trying to make us believe they are a former coach >or player or big time booster or some sort of insider when >they are not. > >the fact so many refuse to identify themselves and truly put >their personal reputation on the line when they make some of >the most defaming and outrageous attacks and claims is far >far worse. i will never post that way. in my opinion if >you dont have the guts to say it under your own name, then >you shouldnt have been saying it in the first place. and >for anyone to not understand that imo is a small person. > >if you are hiding your identity because you arent supposed >to be posting from your place of employment or something >like that, well that is a legitimate reason, but on the >other hand, why are you posting then at all? > >i would love to find that small discussion group that wants >to chat on the internet for convienence sake, but also knows >each other and considers each other a friend and would >easily carry that discussion to the corner bar when >convienent with no fears of retribution or embarrassment of >what was said. > >and note, i am not saying that everyone has to be in >agreement. as many have said, that would be a pretty dull >conversation. i will be the first to admit that the debate >is what i come to the message boards for. but how can >anyone deny that the debate amongst friends is the best and >most enjoyable debate one can have? imo, a messageboard >should be "cheers" on line. billikens.com used to be just >that. > >so besides just not being any fun anymore, i think that i >have become a target that ruins any possible discussions, >and second, i have myself let my strong opinions get in the >way of continuing some of the meaningful discussions about >the real reason we should be here, the billikens. so i'm >out. i no longer want to participate and i think my >participation is no longer right for the group that now >controls the discussions of billikens.com. > >i have no intention of leaving cyber message boards and will >likely participate in discussions at the a-10 board, or >stltoday.com or the lounge. but unless the rules of >engagement change, i cant see where i can any longer >contribute to billikens.com constructively considering the >current makeup of the active input folks here. i think my >presense actually plays against saint louis university and >the billikens, and if i am hurting anything to do with the >billikens, i am sorry and need to go. > >i hope to see you all at the games and anytime anyone wants >to talk billikens with me, my passion wont change. bring it >on. just not at www.billikens.com good luck to you all. Let me be clear one last time....I said it will likely take a coach to have initial sucess, then the school gives support. then bigger success comes. I am not naive. I know a lot about this stuff. I do know that SLU admin etc...will not give full support to something until a coach comes in with a little initial success first...not a lot or ton, but some.....someone who can do more with less...and there are people out there they do that all the time. Then after that initial success if SLU doen't still support that coach then they will not succeed. Absent from your choices was...admin and coach sharing blame. I sign up for that one. I don't need John Wooden or Al McGuire...I'd gladly take Kevin O'Neill etc...someone who can do more with less ...to get it going a little bit, which in turn is more likely to gain that support after that happens. SLU does not and will not give the support first. That is just the way it is...but to say the coach can't overcome those things for at least a little success, not a lot..is naive imo. While it is importnat to gain long term communication, $$ etc....from everyone affiliated with the program, coach selection is extremely important too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 > >I really think there are less posters that do bad than you >think. As much as it riles me up to read Nark's, KShoe, >courtside, and Drew's posts, we know they are in it for the >long haul.They are Billiken fans to the core, but are quite >upset about what's going on. We're all passionate about the >program, and that leads to highly emotional conversations. >The key is to ignore the Johnny come latelies. If some guy >comes on here and posts just a hating/negative comment out >of the gate, I'd ignore the guy. That's what you do in real >life. > People need to be allowed to have an opinion if it is well thought out, half-way intelligent, constructive and objective, without feeling bullied, or that they have to relentless defend it and defend personal stuff. I am sure people vomit when they see a post of mine and the word objective in it. But it really can't be emphasized enough here. What is the state of the program? It is a hopeful once in a while NIT team and has been for years. So if people want all yippee posts they need to look elsewhere. I post under the understanding that people want to be an NCAA team most years...or at least some. It is my belief that is what the board wants in expectations for SLU. They aren't cuttin' it, not even close and there is plenty of blame to go around. And I try to provide anything I can or that I know that can help the situation. And I try to do it in a decent manner. You have a goal, then have steps on how to get there. Roy will leave or not leave, but unless his approach is different he will run into the same walls. We all fail from time to time in life and on the board, self included. But it all starts in the mirror. Nothing in his farewell looked in the mirror. The name calling, dollar signs etc...3rd grade play ground stuff, has been going on for several years, not just recently, and many object to it but there is no self-identification with Roy that there is a problem with doing that. Let people post objectively about whatever they want...it is possible to dislike Mizzou for example and not have to put it in every post, or dollar signs, and actually discuss a topic for the topic itself. When the face of the board calls people names all the time makes things personal, etc...and so on and cannot allow anyone to exist without having identical opionions as his own, that will lead to board problems. If someone else in return is found to be a troll, they get found out quickly and ignoring them is best and easy to do. What I do know is this...take a break etc...whatever etc...but if Roy comes back posting in the same manner...he will butt heads with many many people, self-included, for the same things over and over again. I like to discuss a topic for the topic's sake, with objectivity and decent respect. Imo you are aksing for trouble with all of the other hate or name calling etc... ...i.e.......Many people think that the KL, TL, class was not as great as people thought because it is just two kids...I would say it is great, imo. If somebody said to me, TL is best 3 point shooter in land, I would say he has remarkable improvement, remarkable, but I'd like to see more attempts per game, and all that matters is his getting better and helping the team. In the same breath I can say that Meyer and Polk are much improved, especially Meyer...but shouldn't they be by their junior year...and are they replaceable players, yes imo. Should SLU be getting better players to start in their place, yes. ....that is how I post. Same as head coach...there are many many aspects of that job on and off the floor, how is BS doing? and pro's and con's discussed. .... I don't post any differently with the soccer group and that group does well despite not always in agreement of opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Agreed, Drew. The hype will build for the new digs. "A new Era in SLU Basketball!" Hopefully, it will generate the excitement and enthusiasm to keep a few of the '08 studs in STL. But if this year goes bad, no postseason, and we come up lame in spring recruiting, we have effectively killed any chance at next year's dance. Then the best of this class is going to be choosing programs with equal or better facilities, more tradition, and more TV exposure. Everyone touts UB's landing KL and TL, and it's deserved, but the fact he didn't build on this foundation and take us to another level is going to hurt us down the line. It's not hard to imagine a parent telling one of these top recruits, "You saw what happened to TL and/or KL, 3 years of watching the show on TV." How hard was it for Lowery to outsell SLU to Roundtree, who supposedly had SLU as first, "hey, we've been dancing for 5 straight years and are going this year. Do you have any idea what a great experience March Madness is? You choose SLU, it's likely you'll never know." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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