Our new head coach

[Tonka]

If you have a moment to break from the Roundtree loss which cannot be changed and we have no idea if it is for the good or the bad, please respond to this post as I would like to hear the various opinions. We all know many want Brad gone and we know some want him to stay. We also know many of us will make a decision on that once this season ends.

But, since it's been a big topic just about all year. Let's say for a second that we do fire Brad and look for a new head coach. What caliber coach do you think we will land? Let me expand that a little. On a scale of 1 to 10 where would you rate Brad overall as a head coach? Where was he rated in your mind when he arrived?

If you can objectively answer both of those, then the next question I ask of you is to rate on a scale of 1 to 10 what number you think SLU will go after in regards to a new coach? Now when answering this, you have to consider how much money we'd be willing to pay, finding a character guy, finding a guy that will be easy for the AD to work with, etc.

There is a lot of criteria SLU will use when picking a new head coach and for many reasons.

Now, that you've done that exercise who do you think we'll end up getting in regards to a number on a scale of 1 to 10? Let's say we take an average of all the numbers people rate Brad at and we determine he is a 6 or a 7. Do you see SLU going out and getting a Coach that is an 8? Personally, I don't. I'm not sure where to rate Brad but I think where ever I do rate him, if SLU were to replace him they would replace him with a same caliber guy.

And why a change in a program might be good, it might not be as well. If we are not taking a big step up in the caliber of coach we will get, we will be back in the same position in a few years. Sure, we may get a coach who is a super recruiter, but he may be a bad game day coach. There are trade offs in what you'll get. You may list out 6 guys all rated a 7.5 on a scale of 1 to 10 because the 7.5 coach is what SLU is willing to commit to. Each of these 6 guys have different strengths or weaknesses that give them a 7.5 rating. Well, this being said, won't we be in the same position in regards to results in a few years? I truly believe we will and I am basing that off of the last 30 years.

If you land an up and coming Coach and he does well, he probably won't stay long. If you continue to land "7.5" coaches regardless of their strengths, we will be in EXACTLY the same place in a few years. The frustrations to getting there may be different, but the results will be the same.

I think the school has to commit to the 8, the 8.5, or the 9 coach and continue to commit that caliber of coach to the program from here to eternity or we will never consistently be where we all want to be.

Has SLU shown us we are heading in the right direction? Perhaps. We have a new arena being built. But, in my opinion, we need more of a commitment than that.

Just something to think about. Thoughts?

[Tonka]

That really shocks me. There are over replies in a "he said, she said" game. There are 1000's of posts about getting rid of Brad. I lay the groundwork and ask for genuine opinions and get no posts.

[Larry the Legend]

Tonka,

I think we talked about this a few weeks back and we simply put it to rest. Like you said, wait til the end of the season and I really don't think BS will be fired this season. He has 1 or 2 years left on his contract, I believe, so SLU will not want to eat up a large portion of that just to find a new coach and pay him more. And to really answer your question as to the calliber of coach - there is really little chance to lure any big time guy out of retirement (Lavin, Majerus, Richardson, etc.) simply because they will cost too much and I think there is no way they will want to coach in the A 10. I am sure these guys have been offered better paying jobs in higher rated conferences. So, that leaves us to think about a mid major coach or a quality assistant at a big time program. The possibilities are endless.....

[DoctorB]

I have some breaking news-- I can almost guarantee Coach S. will be back next year, and probably the year after that, unless we lose every remaining game by 40 pts. In my mind, this "issue" has been settled long ago.

There is simply no chance that the SLU administration will [1] buy out the remainder of his contract; and then [2] put up the kind of serious money to hire a substantially more visible, "big name" coach.

I have stayed out of this till now, but it is kind of odd that nobody has made this fairly obvious point. Maybe because as a SLU insider I am one of the few on here who really has personal experience with the wonderful world of SLU salaries and $$. Spare me the talk about the vast arena $$$; I am talking about the general budget here, and the salaries of SLU staff. If you think Fr. Biondi will pony up the cash to make this sort of change, it may be time for a strong cup of coffee.

Sorry to break this news to some of the coach-haters and malcontents. But I think I can pretty much guarantee you that it is the truth, and I have heard the same thing from other much more influential guys at SLU than little old me. I suggest you try to deal with it.

(Can't wait to see the firestorm of response, though)

To be honest, I am quite happy he will be around; and also pretty hopeful that all the hard work of recruiting will be paying off in the next 10 months.

[3star_recruit]

Doc, Larry made the same points about not wanting to buy out the remaining years of his contract just to pay someone else more in the post above yours. Those points were also made in a thread calling for Brad's ouster a couple of weeks ago.

The counterargument was that the administration could backload Brad's settlement over a number of years so they wouldn't have to pay it right away. Could you imagine Biondi wasting all that energy just to get rid of a basketball coach? LOL! It took him 20 years just to get around to an arena we needed 10 years ago.

[davidnark]

I don't think anyone is going to dispute your claim, but we can all harbor hopes that some day the administration will see the benefit of the Marqutte model of paying top dollar.

[slu72]

We all know he's got next year and, as you say, probably the following year. However, you think we might get lucky and someone bigger comes a callin' for his services? Who the hell am I kidding, myself? You're right, good Doctor, we are stuck with him for the duration. So, I guess we should stop all the criticism and just grin and bear it, huh? Not too likely, I'm afraid.

[Tonka]

"I suggest you try to deal with it." - was this directed at me or Larry?

Because I have dealt with it and have stated all Fire Brad signs are detrminetal to the program and have been optimistic (probably follishly optimistic) all season.

I guess my overall point was seeing if you all agreed that if we did (that means hypothetical) fire Brad does anybody think we'd actually land a higher caliber Coach. That was my question. I don't believe we ever will or while Brad may eventually turn out to be not right for this job, we will more than likely land a similar coach which means we will more than likely be in the same a few years after that Coach was here. I was just wanting to see if there is agreement on that. And, if there is agreement to that, then maybe some of the frustrations I read on the board will be kept in perspective. But, maybe many of you don't agree and think the school will commit to a higher caliber coach and I was wanting to find that out as well.

[Larry the Legend]

Doc,

Like I stated earlier, I agree that BS will be around for the next two years. And I know we have to deal with it, but can you at least sense our frustrations with the program right now? I think that we are all hopeful that BS's recruiting efforts will pay off. I am a little worried that BS efforts are not that successful right now. However, things can change and I agree that we all need to have some faith. Like someone stated earlier in a post, verbal commitments are not binding and maybe the boys at SLU can corner Roundtree and convince him to go to SLU. Maybe some of us should show the boy the finer things in life on the East Side of the river.

Doc, I also wonder how long you will remain happy that BS is around? Another lack of postseason play year after year?

[Battlecat455]

That's because it's an exercise in stupidity.

[Tonka]

Normally one would explain why after posting such a response

[cheeseman]

Brad will be the coach next year for the following reasons:

1. It will cost us over a million to to get rid of him. The school is not going to eat that nor ask the boosters to do so given that they are still trying to raise money for the arena and the athletic budget in general.

2. Those of you who say you can backlog the settlement are forgetting one very important thing - you can only change the current contract if both parties agree. If you are Brad why would you agree to anything other than the contract already signed. If you are him why look for another job late in the process unless it is going to be a decent head coaching job. Just wait a year and relax with your $500K plus and then decide what you want to do - you still got another $500K plus coming. Sorry, Brad or any of you would never agree to anything that is not the money you are owed up front.

3. CL will not fire a coach who has had 2 consecutive winning seasons. He is currently 15-9 with 5 games left. 3 at home and 2 away. All he has to do is win one game and even if he looses in the first round of the A10 Tourney he will have a winning record. If you are a coach some place else, why would you come here if you can get fired even after you have had 2 consecutive winning seasons.

4. This team has 8 schollie players returning next year. No matter who is coach you have to sign at least 3 more players just to be able to practice without relying on walk ons. The spring recruiting period is very important to next year just to be able to field a team. Who has the best chance of signing players who can play next year - Brad or a new coach? Unless you hire a Huggins the answer has to be Brad. Now I have not talked about quality of the recruits just recruits that could actually play some at the D1 level. You fire Brad you write off the spring recruiting period for all intents and purpose.

5. Same story for the upcoming fall period. Not saying Brad will lotto out just that he has the best chance of landing those players we all talk about then a new face who has to start from scratch.

6. What happens after next year? Well, if Brad does not sign decent enough players in the spring and his season becomes sub 500 and his fall recruiting class is a bust then serious discussion will have to take place about his final year. I understand that the University would not want to pony up the money and still have to hire another coach but I can not see us going into the new arena like that last year was with Grawer. Talk about a way to do irrepairable harm to the program that would be it.

7. Now there is one caveat to the reasons I gave above - if Brad gets caught having an affair with a cheerleader, one of his players, one of his coaches, or committs some other serious crime he would be let go immediately. I am sure there is a morals clause in the contract. I doubt that is going to happen so don't hold your breath.

So, for those of you who hope he is gone after this year - ain't happening so deal with it.

[Tonka]

A well thought out answer.

See Battlecat it can be done.

[Battlecat455]

Even if I was interested in your totally subjective grading scale, do you propose to rate every prospective candidate? To what end? Armed with this valuable information we strike boldly toward a new day? You should find a horse for your cart.

[Tonka]

Okay, so you are not interested. So why respond at all?

For someone claiming the exerices is stupid, maybe you ought to reread the wntire post before something else is stupid because apparently it went way over your head. The grading scale was to make a point that whatver grade Coach got would probably be very similar to any new coach would be willing to hire, hence my statement we would probably be in the same position in a few years with a new Coach. The post wasn't about an exercise. From now on, now I see you're reading I will make things more simplistic.

[huzzah]

I think Brad is a Div 2 coach. In Div 2 he had a 2-1 win record. At Wisconsin Brad became head coach of a final 4 team and lead them to a 16-10 record and 5th place in the Big 10. Wisconsin lost in the first round of the NCAA and Brad was dismissed. Wisconsin has been on fire since. Brad's win loss record at Div 1 is considerably less than at Div 2.

Recently the Post Dispatch asked people what sport they would persue in the interim between the Super Bowl and baseball spring training. Hockey came in first at 40%. SLU came in last at 2%. In a poll on local sportscasters, also by the Post, Bob Ramsey came in last. This is not because of his talent level, but rather reflects the lack of interest in SLU basketball. Thus Brad has had no media impact here as also evidenced by his absence in local commercials. He became head coach because of affordability. However, this may change. The school is building a new arena and needs to sell tickets and raise donations. The tickets will be sold with preferred seating demanding an annual premium and encouraging membership in the Billiken Club, which, with donations to the Billiken Club, will further increase ticket prices. This is fine and will work, but you must have a product. NCAA appearances are lucrative and will help with all of the above. To make the whole thing work we have to get results, so I think the school, if it has common sense, will upgrade the coaching. If it does not the new arena will become a financial burden. The new arena per se is not the panacea; an attractive product is. We have received good coverage from the Post, the best ever, so lack of interest in Billiken bb falls on court results or the lack there of. I don't know if Brad will ever be terminated. I cannot predict the future. My bottom line wish is that things get turned around and Brad succeeds.

[courtside]

SLU needs a coach who can do more with less.

SLU is not going to pay top dollar because their coach hasn't earned top dollar. Those coaches at other schools received multiple raises rewarding performance on and off the floor.

Don't agree about moving in a different direction after having a winning season. So what if SLU has a coach for 10 years and hasa winning season for 10 years but never makes the NCAA? Do you think he would still be the coach? Levick didn't come to SLU to sit around and watch the hoop team not succeed. Or she will leave fast.

There are a lot of coaches out there in need or want of a head coaching gig despite SLU's shortcomings. SLU would not be able to attract an established head coach. ...young assistant or recycled veteran, etc..and often times ...inheriting tough situations.

[courtside]

>I think Brad is a Div 2 coach. In Div 2 he had a 2-1 win

>record. At Wisconsin Brad became head coach of a final 4

>team and lead them to a 16-10 record and 5th place in the

>Big 10. Wisconsin lost in the first round of the NCAA and

>Brad was dismissed. Wisconsin has been on fire since.

>Brad's win loss record at Div 1 is considerably less than at

>Div 2.

To be fair, that season prior, Wisconsin had a 6th place team that went to the Final Four with 14 losses.

Bo Ryan has done a great job there since.

[Battlecat455]

I agree with your assertion regarding a new coach. I just don't think it can be quantified. BTW, don't feel obliged to keep it simple on my account.

[Billiken Law]

>I don't think anyone is going to dispute your claim, but we

>can all harbor hopes that some day the administration will

>see the benefit of the Marqutte model of paying top dollar.

Mike Deane averaged 20 wins a year at MU and was fired. However, MU had big-time donors step up to provide the needed cash to buy out Deane and bring in a big name coach. Now, those donors have been joined by more to ensure that if Crean ever leaves it won't be because another school offered more money. SLU does not have those big donors, that's a problem in today's climate.

[Billiken Law]

>>I think Brad is a Div 2 coach. In Div 2 he had a 2-1 win

>>record. At Wisconsin Brad became head coach of a final 4

>>team and lead them to a 16-10 record and 5th place in the

>>Big 10. Wisconsin lost in the first round of the NCAA and

>>Brad was dismissed. Wisconsin has been on fire since.

>>Brad's win loss record at Div 1 is considerably less than at

>>Div 2.

>

>

>To be fair, that season prior, Wisconsin had a 6th place

>team that went to the Final Four with 14 losses.

>

>Bo Ryan has done a great job there since.

They also brought almost everybody back (4 or 5 starters, only lost Bryant, a D2 transfer, and Duaney, a reserve) from that Final Four team.

[cheeseman]

When you add the idea of a coach having 10 winning seasons with no NCAA trips you have changed the situation from today. My comments were about today. I would agree a coach who had 10 winning seasons with no NCAA trips would be fired in fact he probably would have been fired before every having stayed 10 years. My point was that Brad had that terrible 9-21 year and he has shown some improvement from a record stand point. Additionally, the school is looking for a reason not to eat the million plus so they will use the 2 winning records in a row arguement to let him stay another year. I don't know if Brad is the man or not but as I have said for sometime now, we have to wait until the spring and fall recruiting periods are over and this season before we can make an true/fair evaluation.

[brianstl]

I have posted those facts multiple times. I even started a topic with those facts.

[StLouBlue]

I am in favor or keeping Brad around for the next couple of years to see how recruiting and winning happen. I have posted like cheeseman that I think Brad is the best coach to land the local recruits for the next 2 classes. That being said, I have been trying to come up with a name or names of coaches that could realistically be expected to come and maybe be better than Brad in the short term. The one person I have come up with so far is Melvin Watkins at Mizz. Having been on Quin's staff and now Anderson's staff, he has the recruiting ties to the local kids and high schools. Has experience at Charlotte & Texas A&M and has a reputation as a strong recruiter. I doubt a BCS school will be hiring him soon, he could be a good fit here at SLU. I don't know much about him as far as game day coach and style he runs though. Here is his bio:

http://mutigers.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/m...s_melvin00.html

[slu72]

He hasn't done the job we expected. If you listed the HC's who have turned around down programs in the last five years, his name would not appear on the list. The stat cited above about SLU garnering 2% interest is sad. This is a program that 14 years ago was pulling in 17,000 fans and generating excitement. What should have been an eye opener, for even the casual observer, was that prior to Spoon's arrival the program was limping along. He turned it around in a very short period of time. Turned it around big time. NCAA appearances, full houses, Spoon Ball, etc. We missed our opportunity to then become the Gonzaga of the mid west. UB's had 4+ years to generate excitement, bring in exciting competitive players, make a ticket to Scott Trade mean something. What has he done? Yes, a tip of the hat to the Kool Aid Club, he landed TL and KL, two of the area's best ever. But that was just a tease. All he had to do was give them a decent supporting cast, and he didn't. Will it ever happen under his guidance? Who knows, but he'll get his two years to do it, and they are a lock for sure. So, fellow ABC'ers, we're stuck with him. We can do nothing about it. Let's all wish him great success because he does lead our team. If it doesn't come, bite your tongue. The Kool Aid Clubbers have won the day. Why this would give Billikan, Broy, Rich, and other joy, will always be a mystery to me. Fans who enjoy mediocrity, go figure. And one other note, to all you posters who say UB is the best we can do, if that indeed is the case, it's time to find a new team, because we're gonna have an empty feeling every March. Wasn't it UB who said, "I asked them, if we fail to make the dance, will this season be a failure?" They said, yes.