TheRaginCajun Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Can't say I am too excited about the win against Rhode Island last night. It was a poor display of basketball by both teams in my opinion and I came away fully believing SLU is not a tournament quality team, bottom line. Here are some thoughts: Tommie Liddell has become a star and just needs to be a little more aggressive in taking over. We play in a conference of mid-major athletes and he is a major athlete who has really become a scorer. Very pleased with his development. Luke Meyer plays the game right. He plays with such heart and desire that it is impossible for me to ever say anything negative about this kid. I really enjoy watching him play. He seems to be the guy that makes things happen for us, whether it is a big offensive rebound, a nice drive to the basket, or a timely steal, he makes big plays when we need them. Ian Vouyoukas is soft and has digressed. It is unfortunate to see, but the kid plays with zero heart. He gives up offensive rebound after offensive rebound and never attacks the glass at either end. Its almost like he is content to let his man get the board and just go for the big shot block. I am very upset with his digression and overall lack of heart and passion out there. He is supposed to be the senior the leadership and he should be dominating these games. Dustin McGuire. I am under the thinking that if you have not seen any significant minutes you should try to work yourself into the flow a little bit, play your ass off on the defensive end and be sound on the offensive end. This kid gets in the game and starts jackin up shots. I can't I say I noticed his defense much, but this is the area that is lacking according to those who attend practice. He was credited with one steal, but that was a ball he picked up after Luke knocked it loose and dove on the ground getting it away from the Ram player. Justin Johnson may be the worst player to ever suit up in a Billiken uniform. I have never seen a player manage to get his shot blocked by three differnt guys. It was nice to watch a game and not have to watch Kramer Soderberg tooling around on the sideline as if he is a member of the team. We are a slightly above average team in an awful conference. I will continue my rant in due time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbofive Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 I don't think a rant is in order, nor do I think that was a rant, in its entirety. I agree with all of that except for the team as a whole. We are hitting on two cylinders, as noted, and we have a potential four in KL, TL, IV, and LM. It will be nice when they finally click for a couple of games. That being said, I give us about a 10% chance of making the tournament. Likewise, I was losing my ###### watching that shot from JJ get knocked around like an anorexic at a Gwar concert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jp18 Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Why would you be upset with Kramer Soderberg on the sidelines? That seems very strange to me. Talk about nitpicking. People want Brad to get some recruits in here and he has his own son averaging nearly 30 points a game and you don't want him around the team. Good thinking. He wouldn't help. And I have no problem with DMs play last night. He is out there to score and his shots weren't off by that much. I would much rather have him out there than DB, who can't hit the side of a barn right now. Why not give someone else a shot? I'm over DB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SShoe Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 >Dustin McGuire. I am under the thinking that if you have >not seen any significant minutes you should try to work >yourself into the flow a little bit, play your ass off on >the defensive end and be sound on the offensive end. This >kid gets in the game and starts jackin up shots. I can't I >say I noticed his defense much, but this is the area that is >lacking according to those who attend practice. He was >credited with one steal, but that was a ball he picked up >after Luke knocked it loose and dove on the ground getting >it away from the Ram player. > Based on his high school career, the kids a shooter. So I have no problem with him taking shots. In fact, I more than welcome it, because eventually he'll get comfortable and those will start falling. Also, the fact you didn't notice him on defense might be a good thing. That means he didn't get beat much. Kind of like with O-lineman. It's usually a good sign if you're not talking about him. Dustin needs to play more and Danny needs to play less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NashvilleBilliken Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Was it really that ugly or was it that our shots just don't fall? Listening to the guys call the game, it sounds like we are getting a lot of good open shots out of the offense, but we just can't hit them. Also, it sounds like a lot of those shots are early in the shot clock. I'm glad DM got some minutes. I now cringe every time DB touches the ball. It's hard to tell how difficult the shots are over audio, but I've never heard somebody miss as many layups as DB. He's gotta start slamming it or something. How many fast break points did he blow last night? At least 8 I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 i thought maguire did fine and considering they were playing a zone and dustin was open, i was hoping he'd shoot more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 IV may have regressed more then any single basketball player I have ever seen in my life. Anyone that watched him knows, because of his effort, HE SHOULD NOT START! I know AK and BH don't have the talent of IV, but at least they are out there trying. He is embaressing himself with his lack of effort. He knows he blew his chance at the NBA and the few scouts that came out to watch him early are long gone. Tommie is the man. His outside shot has improved dramatically over last season, he's creating, he's rebounding, and when he puts 100% effort out there, he can't be stop, he could go off for 25 night the way he is playing now. I wish he'd be a little more vocal and take of the team leader position. LUKE MEYER IS A STUD. I never thought I'd say that, because early on, I was not a Luke fan, but his hussle and his heart is incredible. I love the way he plays, his intensity, and his basketball smarts. Imo, he's the leader right now. He doesn't have all the talent in the world, but he sure tries hard every single play. (imagine if IV had half the heart of Luke). As for KL, I think he will be fine. I don't want any kool-aid drinkers out there saying he's hurt, cuz he's not (remember, 17 in a row at practice, hmmmm, can't be hurting too much). Our bench is more pathetic then Rosie O'donnell in a fast food drive thru and as shallow was her personality. Finally a win... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbofive Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 The example I always bring up when discussing Ian is a game at home last year when Ian tried to dunk over 3 people from just inside the free throw line. WHY NOT!?!? F'ing knee somebody in the face and try to bring the damn house down. Seen anything like that this year? I've seen four dunks in all but 2 home games and the SIU game. And the 2 at SIU looked like some of my dunks - they went down, but nobody cares, and some were probably laughing. I know defenses are keying on him a little more, but wouldn't that make anybody w/ half a heart throw a few more elbows and power up when they got the chance? And also, here's a long quote from Soderberg that, despite recruiting woes, coaching lapses, etc., makes me PROUD that he is our coach. I really don't believe you could represent the University much better than he does, and I don't believe he's BS'ing for the admins either. "I know these kids felt the pressure, they were so disappointed. I'm really proud of them, I don't know how else to say it. I'm proud of the way they came back to practice Monday, the way they listened. That is why you recruit good kids, because every year something goes haywire and if you got a bunch of knuckleheads it could go right down the toilet. These kids are good people." I'll take aw-shucks guys like Luke Meyer, who happens to be showing the most fire on the court of anyone, over just about anybody. Maybe that means I'm settling for mediocrity, but I don't think so. Our "good guys" will get it done eventually, we just have to get enough of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdog Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 I think all the criticism of Ian is way off base. He worked really hard last night on both ends of the court, and got to the line for four critical free throws in crunch time. He was double and triple teamed all night long while on offense, which limited what he could do while opening up the perimeter for our guards. The eight treys we hit in the second half was thanks in large part to all the defensive focus on Ian, imo. And let's face it, it is going to be hard for him to dominate the boards when our next biggest guy is only 6'5". You can't expect him to do everything by himself. I thought he was much improved last night and that happened because he worked for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Ditto on Ian but let me give you another name that was famous for regressing - Baniek. Dustin can shoot whenever he wants from now on or at least for the next 3 games if he gets decent minutes. He was put in because of the sagging zone that they were playing on us and we had to find some else besides Tommie to hit an outside shot - Luke, Danny were missing and Kevin and Polk were inconsistent. Now if after 3 more games he is still not hitting then maybe he needs to slow it down but give the kid a chance. His defense was fine last night - he did what was expected. Danny - talk about a puzzle - his shooting has regressed and his overall defensive and ball handling is very weak. When he drives to the basket he either charges or blows the lay up. Kevin - better defense but he has to find his shot or we are in big trouble the rest of the year. I also am not buying the injury thing either. It has been 3 weeks. Glad for the win but I am not sure last night answered any questions other than they did play good defense but the scoring and rebounding issues is still there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbofive Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 If he had Tim Duncan's skills, I'd be okay with him having the demeanor of Tim Duncan. But he doesn't, so I want a mean SOB, dammit! Conversely, he does get doubled and tripled a lot, and hacked even more, so I do sympathize w/ him for that. Maybe he knows he's set back in Greece as a shipping manager, maybe he knows that he can play overseas and is content with that, or maybe he's just doesn't have what it takes to play at an NBA or even All-Conference level. I just know that if I were coming off an All-Conference season, amid speculations of being drafted, I would have come out firing more. Who knows? Oh well... I don't mean to rip too much, or at all really, I just wonder what happened - he is NOT the same player as last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billikan Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 It was not ugly at all except that we kept missing wide open shots. Out offense was clicking in terms of getting open shots. Danny has had some issues but I will say that those missed layups were mostly highly contested and he probably should have passed back rather than go 1 on 2 or 3. Many of the open shots that we missed were in the first 8-15 seconds of the shot clock so we are not holding the ball at all. If 4 or 5 of those go in we would look like worldbeaters! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 I'd rather have 10 Luke Meyer's with average talent then 10 IVs with no heart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billikan Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Ian is an extremely important part of this team and he is contributing in ways that do not show up in the box score. If you ever played ball, you would know that when a player like Ian has to spend the entire night in a wrestling match with 2 or 3 guys in the paint that means that other are open. And Ian is working hard in the low post to get open even though he does not often get the ball. On defense he is hustling more than I have ever seen him before. His plays guarding the guy on the perimeter were very impressive--the guy drove hard to the hoop to take Ian off the dribble and Ian blocked his shot several times. Finally, they stopped trying. Ian is also working hard on the help defense and he altered a bunch of other shots in addition to the 4 he blocked. If you watch closely, Ian often has guys from the other team climbing on his back for rebounds and there is no call yet if he gets near anyone then they call him for a foul. Make no mistake, Ian is an extremely important player on this team. Tommie and Kevin and others would never get all of those wide open shots if Ian were not drawing double and triple teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billikan Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 There is such a fine line in long range shooting that I do not see how you can say that a bad elbow and a huge deep cut on the shooting hand are not reasons for a shooter to have issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billikan Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Often last year the teams played Ian man to man without any help because they were focusing on others and Ian killed them with his low post game. With Kevin and others other than Tommie in a shooting slump most teams have decided to eliminate Ian from the game on the offensive end by double and triple teaming him. Then they foul the heck out of him and send in some banger from the bench to foul him some more. If Ian were getting single man to mad defense he would be scoring 20 points a game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Billikan, Have you ever watched a basketball game outside of SLU in your life? Any center gets fouled and beat up as much as IV. He is no different. He doesn't try to get the ball on offense consistantly, he doesn't grab rebounds. He's just not trying. No shame in admitting that. He should be on the bench to at least start the game. He has no motivation, shows no heart, is never diving on the floor, etc. Put BH or AK out there, even if they aren't as good, I'd rather have a hussle player rather then a giant that takes up space with a lazy attitude. You are the most senstative guy to any sort of criticism I have ever seen Billikan, and I think its a problem for you. Ian is just not trying out there, and not giving 100%, and that's a fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 You must be watching reruns of the White Shadow on Tv land. Ian may not be the toughest center in NCAA Division 1 but he's certainly trying, and busting his a$$. If you can't say that and see it, I'd question your objectivity and your support of our program. The "fact" is that you are wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billikan Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 I probably watch over 100 games a year and I played for many years. It is ridiculous to say he has no heart and is lazy. I would love him to have the Tyler hansborough attitude but he is more laid back. That does not mean he has no heart or he is lazy. If you watch the game closely he is busting his butt in the low post with people hanging on him and he is "hustling" like crazy on defense as he chases down people to block shots. I have been there, in the post, with people hanging all over you so I know what it is like. Ian is not perfect but he is much better than you give him credit for being. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 I have never said that I did not think that Ian was not trying but trying hard and getting it done are two different things. There is a fine line between trying hard and trying hard and being successful at it. Ian maybe suffering from too much hype but here is a guy who is picked to be conference player of the year and he is not playing as well as last year. He was double and triple teamed last year and he suffered from it towards the end of the year. We all just thought that he was tired from playing ball all year and this year he would be well rested and be all fired up for raising his NBA stock. What has happened is that he is finding the same problems now as he had towards the end. One thing I have noticed about him lately is that he has moved farther away from the basket and when he gets the ball he is too far away for his shot so he ends up passing it off so he is not getting fouled as much as before or he is forcing the issue and trying to drive towards the basket and he either has had the ball stolen, walks, or misses the shot. As far as his help defense goes - when he comes out to pick up the man that somebody lost, we are woefully undermannned in the paint for rebounding - I would think the other team wants him out there. So, that simply plays into their hands. I guess that makes it all the more important that the other players not lose their man. Kevin's shooting - lots of players have to play with taped fingers and they do not loose their shot. He has had enough time to make a minor adjustment for this issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonwich Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 > I played for many years. Did you happen to play for the Billikens? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 busting his a$$ means grabbing 14 rebounds in 3 games? 6 rebounds when you are the biggest guy on the court last night? please. don't kid yourself. i watched him specifically every play last night and saw no movement on offense, run of the mill D, and not one balls out play. Its clear he's given up a little once he realized the scouts were gone. Any objective viewer can see that. and by the way, i could care less about proving my support a tool like yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 I wouldn't worry about the criticism. It doesn't take alot to recognize that it is from people who have little clue of what goes on in a basketball game. Ian worked hard. Their front line was 6'10", 6'8", and 6'8". There is no way they weren't going to get offensive rebounds. Ian gets doubled and triple teamed every time he touches the ball. We won a game in which we shot horribly in the first half. If you must find something to ***** about, at least try to be right. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would have helped club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 What makes you think we do not know what is going on in a basketball game? If you know so much about the game, why hasn't your name been tossed into the coaching mix? Actually, with your knowledge skip, I bet you could make the crossover to football as I know there is a vacancy in Pittsburgh. But just for fun, what makes you think you are more knowledgeable about basketball then me? Clearly, the 16,000-18,000 open seats at the Scott last night might agree with me that we just aren't very good as much as we'd like them to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 that's easy... I've read the few posts you've made. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would have helped club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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