Quality Is Job 1 Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 I'm listening to Chuck Wilson and Doug Gottlieb interview Creighton's Dana Altman on Game Night, ESPN Radio, and Coach Altman said that he wanted the Illinois job but didn't get an offer. The issue is that he was very interested in keeping his coaching staff together, and Illinois was set on having certain members of Bill Self's staff remain. What are your thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLouBlue Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 The Illinois job was the one I was most worried about losing Altman. Illinois was a returning top 25 team with good young players that would fit Altman's system very well. I heard the same thing that Illinois wanted to keep certain assistants on staff and Altman wanted to bring his with him and because of this Gunither(sp?) Illinois AD looked to Weber. At Creighton Altman knew he had a veteran team returning and opening their new arena this season and the CU alumni have also stepped up the last few years with an annunity for Altman that increases in amount the longer he stays, so there were good reasons to stay at Creighton also. Also he is from Nebraska and so is his wife and their children are in grade & high school, so Altman can be very picky about if he does leave it will only be for the best situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 i believe the assistant that went in the deal was wayne mcclain. wayne is the father of former illini star, sergio mcclain. wayne is also the former peoria manuel head coach with multiple former state tourney titles. wayne supposedely had the inside track to signing shaun livingston, thus the ad believed that keeping wayne was important. see how far that went. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Well that backfired - the Livingston thing. Just goes to show you that until the name is on the dotted line you never know. How it worked out for CU is great for them but this is exactly the reason the Bills should not have considered the Valley - Valley is a stepping stone league for coaches. I know we lost Romar to WU but he left to go to his alma mater. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLouBlue Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 I know the MVC has lost coaches to bigger programs in the past & will in the future, but don't think it doesn't happen elsewhere also. In the A-10, Dayton's old coach Purnell moved to Clemson. The year before Richmond's coach moved to West Virginia. I certainly don't want to re-hash all of the MVC vs A-10 arguements, but coaches leaving to go to bigger conferences happens in the A-10 probably as much as it does in the MVC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLouBlue Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 It was McClain & also another assistant that ended up leaving anyway after Weber's hire, I can't remember his name. McClain was the connection to Peoria which has turned into a good pipeline for Illinois. Friend at work who is huge Illni fan told me they just got a commitment from a Peoria kid for '05. I am not sure if Altman wanted to bring all 3 assistants or just 2. 2 have been with him since KSU days, 3rd only last couple of years. Whatever it was, I am just happy he stayed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Law Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 The same could be said about the A-10. Only 1 coach remains at his same school since the beginning of 2000-01 season - John Cheney. Even Xavier and Dayton lost their coaches to bigger programs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 stloublue said, "Friend at work who is huge Illni fan told me they just got a commitment from a Peoria kid for '05." find out who they are talking about? miranda is the best junior on livingston's peoria team and i find it hard to believe that the illini would offer to him now. not sure of the talent on the other peoria schools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted January 8, 2004 Author Share Posted January 8, 2004 Roy, the first player on a team to commit isn't always the best player on the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 nm = no message Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Law Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Just the facts. Nothing to do with Marquette. In fact, if you look around at many conferences you'll see a ton of turnover. In the Big East Amaker left for Michigan, Doherty from ND to UNC (think he regrets that???), Howland from Pitt to UCLA. I am sure there are others. The comment was that the A-10 is superior to the MVC because MVC coaches use their jobs as "stepping stones" to bigger jobs. However, over the same period the A-10 has equal, if not more, turnover in coaches (some fired, some moving on like Prosser, Purnell, Beilein, Barron, who moved within the league). Again, just the facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 It is just another example of you providing a wonderfully patronizing attitude toward SLU basketball. Roy Williams left Kansas for the ACC; does that make the Big 12 a stepping stone conference? Bill Self left the Big 10 for the Big 12; does that make the Big 10 an even lesser stepping stone conference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLouBlue Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Jamar Smith a guard from Peoria Richwoods committed today. Yesterday they got a commitment from David Palmer out of Tennessee, who plays AAU ball with Tyler Hansbrough--who obviously they are recruiting also. I don't know much about either kid, but my friend seems happy with both of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 palmer is on the eagles? hansborough plays for the eagles, and i dont remember a palmer on that team. thanks for the jamar smith name! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Law Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 It's called looking at the facts. 11 of 12 schools have changed coaches in the past 3 years. If you are going to say that the MVC is a "stepping stone conference" because Altman wanted to go to the Big Ten then the facts would show that the A-10 could also be considered a "stepping stone conference" if you use the same criteria in labling the MVC as such. There is no patronizing, nothing directed at SLU, just a stating of the facts. Cheeseman stated that Altman wanting to go to Illinois is "exactly the reason SLU should not have gone to the Valley, because the Valley is a stepping stone leagure for coaches." If that is the main reason then SLU made a mistake going to the A-10 since they've had equal or greater coaching turnover. Of course, there are greater reasons why SLU went to the A-10 over the MVC: TV deal, exposure, competitive level, East Coast exposure, etc. I doubt the perception of the MVC being a "stepping stone league for coaches" was ever considered. And yes, for fun I do like to tease Illinois fans about their job being a "stepping stone" considering their last 2 coaches left for what they deemed better jobs. I wouldn't consider Kansas a "stepping stone job" just as I wouldn't consider SLU to have been used as a "stepping stone job" because both of their coaches left for their alma maters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Billikan Law, thanks for your additional information about the A10 having coaches leave for better conferences. I think what I was really trying to say is that between the MVC and A10, the A10 is more likely to keep their coaches because they have made a committment to improving their league and are starting to put pressure - at least that is what we have heard from the Commish - to improve all their teams. Their addition of SLU and Charlotte raises the level of their conference and coupled with an increased expectations you should see less of the coaching changes. CUSA had pretty much stabilized this matter and I am hopeful that the A10 will be more successful in this regards than the MVC has been. Others who pointed out that even big name programs lose their coaches are also correct. I also was not talking about coaches getting fired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Majerus Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 I think it's time I stepped up to another board, but this one has been a great training ground...:+ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLouBlue Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 B-Roy, I had that wrong, Palmer & Hansbrough are good friends and because of this may play AAU ball together on the Eagles this summer. Also, back in Sept they took an unofficial visit to Illinois together--just kind of interesting for Illinois. Cheeseman, I know the MVC can say the same thing about working to improve all of their teams, just as the A-10 does. I see both leagues having trouble keeping successful coaches though if a school from the ACC, BE, SEC, Big10, Big12 come calling. Creighton has been fortunate in keeping Altman so far, but each year we worry about losing him. It isn't much fun, but it is nice knowing that other schools like & respect your coach. I hope in the next few years Soderburg is in the same situation and he also stays here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetorch Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 I dunno about the Peoria kid but Palmer is a PF and a top 40 recruit. He is a very nice get for Weber. If he comes it will put to rest any doubts that he cannot recruit top players like his predecessors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basketbill Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 I do not think that was the thrust of the original post. I veiwed it as a question regarding Altman, and cujays previous comments of how he is staying put.......however you do bring up an interesting point, inadvertently. CUSA had been a high turnover coaching league, and for some programs it still is......however in the last few years Marquette, Cinci, Louisville, and I hope SLU have become destination coaching spots....(Soderberg may not be but with family in the area, and his dream job being Wisconsin, I doubt )......I do not know if the A10 can become such a league, but it does have an angle that other top leagues do not have.....the conference will be run by basketball.......this is important, as it is fun being the fiddle and not the second fiddle. One thing that universities can offer a recruit is stability, however with every three year coaching changes that goes out the window. which conference provides the best chance of stability....I think the A-10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 Blue - I guess only time will tell but the A10 will be a different landscape in two years so I think this past trend will be reversed somewhat. Unfortunately, I am not sure what the MVC has done to change their current situation. If you know of things that they have done such as higher coaches pay, stronger out of conference scheduling, improved facilities - not just arenas but overall please detail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLouBlue Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 I have detailed this in the past during the whole MVC vs A10 debate. If you are interested in the MVC, you could try asking this question on the Valleytalk.net message board, fans from each school could give you these details then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 I read all the stuff on the Valley vs A10 stuff so obviously you did not make a compelling arguement or I would have remembered it. I can only assume by your unwillingness to share again that either you do not have the information or it does not exist/compelling. You came on our board and made a claim - all I am doing is asking you to back up your claim with facts. Telling me to go someplace else to find the information is a little chicken sh## on your part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cujaysfan Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 sorry - been away at trade show for last three days... altman didn't recevie an "offer" per se in the way things are done now... it works something like this - hey coach - IF we offered you X dollars and this and that would you come to Illinois? and coach responds - "sure" - then Illini AD says - congrats you are hired. the sticking point at illinois through the negotiations were on staff - altman is very loyal to his staff and wanted to bring them to illinois - guenther said that they DA had to keep mcclain. thus endeth the negotiations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted January 9, 2004 Author Share Posted January 9, 2004 Yes, I understand the difference between an offer and an interview. He didn't get an offer, and the sticking point was the assistants. Do you have any opinions on the matter other than regurgitating the known facts? If I was in the position of Creighton fan, I would have responded, "I'm glad that 'our' coach is a hot enough commodity to get looked at so closely, but -- whew -- I'm glad he's still here!" Then I might go on to say, "I hope that's the most appealling opening he'll ever see, and since he turned that down, I'm more confident he'll remain." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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