tseugnekillib Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 David, a D1 coach may have to target/heavily recruit/offer 15+ quality players to get 2 players....there are 100+ schools trying to get the same players. SLU isn't trying to sign 5 players, SLU isn't trying to sign 4 players, SLU isn't trying to sign 3 players......it was stated at the last Billiken Club meeting that SLU was looking to use 2 of their 3 available scholarships. You still have to target multiple quality players to get one quality player because of the competition.....everybody needs players! Look at the attached list of players the ND gets involved with in one year: http://www.irishblueandgold.com/Recruiting/Basketball.aspx SLU needs to sign two quality recruits before classes start in August 2007. The sooner the better for most folks; but quality over just signing the first Tom, Dick or Harry that you see at a AAU tournament. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majerus Magic Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 I totally understand what you are saying. I would agree that having those 2 schollies filled would be nice, but also a little unrealistic. I do not want Brad offering kids just for sake of offering. For example, yes those 2 players are going D1, but I would not want them on SLU team. I don't care if they are local, or even went to SLUH I dont want mid level talent on my team. Granted, having two well regarded signing by now would be awsome the proabability that is going to happen is low. People have to understand what Brad is dealing with. Have you people who are whining about recruiting seen West Pine? Holy Crap, my high school was better than that. In today's world it is all about the glitz and glamour. Hate to break it to you guys, but SLU has neither glitz or much glamour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 Hang in there 72. I'm probably a little more opitmistic about the state of the program than you, but I appreciate your perspective. Don't get bullied. It's clear that you care about the program and it's unfair that you are being lumped in with putz and hardballs. Whether it's politics or basketball, it's amazing how little tolerance some people have for differing opinions here. The next step will be to ban "negative" posts from well intentioned Billiken fans. 72 is being treated like a Mizloser or some other kind of troll and that's not right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRaginCajun Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 I think it is obvious that nobody on this board wants to sign players just to sign players. Nobody wants to offer lesser players just so we can get some early committments. That is not the reason for people being a little upset with us possibly going into the spring needing to fill scholarships. Legitimate players seldom wait till the spring to choose a college. I am not saying it doesn't happen, but be realistic. The majority of kids who are avialable to us in the spring are available to us for a reason. Sure you may find a diamond in the rough every once in awhile, but that is not par for the course. I have no problem with holding onto a scholarship for a project type player or that kid the staff thinks could be that diamond in the rough, but it seems like SLU is banking a little too heavily on that becoming the case. As is, we will go into next season filling the 4 and 5 position with 4 guys (Bryce, Obi, Dixon, and Knollmeyer) who came in with some sort of question mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 I'm PO'd that a loyal Billiken fan can look at the most promising team we've had in years and can't find anything to be happy about. Keep posting negative ahern and other recruiting crap. We just really don't have enough haters out there doing that already. We REALLy need a few more diehard Billiken fans doing that too. If you already believe we'll fail, we don't need you. If you just want to stir it up, join the hardball lunatic falange. Again, it's hard to take you seriously at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 I agree it is that as a rule ... you need to be getting signings in the fall. If you are waiting until the spring to fill all your needs ... you will have problems. But we are deciding this year sucks and the signing period isn't even here yet. It is stupid. There is no other way to put it. We've also condemmed this years freshman class without seeing them play a game. Again stupid. I can see having questions ... but why do they all have to be what if they suck. Hell, what if they turn out great, what if HD is a monster on the boards and can use his athleticism to turn that into a few offensive boards and easy put backs. What if AK can fill out that body and become a bruiser inside ... ala TF, but with more offensive skills. What if Obi becomes a combination of both. How about Bryce ... what if he becomes a dominate defensive force and can score and rebound a little. With those 3 manning the inside for the next couple of years and Bryce for next year ... along with our very good guards ... WHAT IF ..... Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRaginCajun Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 Agreed Skip. I think it is too soon to say what we have with these kids and it unfair to be honest. I was mostly saying that I can see why some people have legitimate concerns and questions. We do know what we have in Bryce for the most part and in my opinion thats nothing more than a team cheerleader and a wasted scholarship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 you make great points skip. i can see their point if the what if's had already happened. hey, if our freshmen dont work, if no one signs this year or those that do never pan out, then yes, coach soderberg should be held accountable. but to assume obi, knollmeyer, dixon, maguire and those to be named yet are all busts because they werent signed at a certain date, that is crazy. what we do know is that we have a more impressive roster than we have had in years. we have 3 very highly acclaimed players, two of which are underclassmen, and all signs are pointing to success. yet doom and gloom want to pull triggers now based on results that havent happened yet. why dont we hold off on the doom and gloom until it does happen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 "I agree it is that as a rule ... you need to be getting signings in the fall." It seems like those that are questioning our recruits that were signed in the Spring (admittedly sight unseen) are simply following the rule that on averge the players in the Spring aren't as good as the ones signed in the fall whereas those that are expecting "what if they turn out great, what if HD is a monster on the boards and can use his athleticism to turn that into a few offensive boards and easy put backs. What if AK can fill out that body and become a bruiser inside ... ala TF, but with more offensive skills. What if Obi becomes a combination of both." are going against the rule. So what is it Skip, do you agree with the rule or do you just think every SLU recruit is going to be great, even if you haven't seen him play? As for Future Billikens comments that SLU is no glamour and having to deal with West Pine...I thought the new arena was going to eliminate this problem. A recruit signing today would only have to play 1 year at West Pine/Savvis so quite frankly we need to stop using poor facilities as an excuse for poor recruiting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 Few minutes of actual game play, I'd say your judgement is questionable. Calling a player with years ahead of him a wasted scholarship is absolutely unconscionable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 >The next step will be to >ban "negative" posts from well intentioned Billiken fans. 72 >is being treated like a Mizloser or some other kind of troll >and that's not right. What are you talking about? I want evidence that slu72 has been treated by the "establishment" in a manner similar to the way the "establishment" has treated the "trolls." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 The majority of players Brad Soderberg has signed in his tenure have come later than the November signing period, yet he has put a team on the court that has been more competitive than most Div. I schools. Despite getting few early commitments, he has a team that, on paper, should contend for the A-10 title and reach the 2007 NCAA Tournament. We must have a bunch of micro-managers on this board! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 I'm not opinining on Bryce here per se but how long do we have to wait until we can make a judgement on a player? For instance, Bryce has been in the program for 3 years and had barely seen the court. Presumably he doesn't see the court because he isn't that good. I haven't heard too many projections for Bryce playing more than 10 minutes a game this year. Do we have to wait until senior night to make an assessment on whether his scholarship was worthwhile or can a reasonable person make a judgment 3 years into a 5-year program? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 Part of the problem is Ian. If Ian wasn't here we would have seen more of Bryce. We may see them together a few times this year, but mostly Bryce will back Ian up, so if he is not better than Ian (who is the best Billiken center in most of our lifetimes) he is a wasted scholarship? I think it depends on the circumstances. Not every player will be a star ... This year Bryce needs to provide 10 minutes a game without too much of a drop off from Ian, even then he won't score like Ian ... but he should be a force defensively. I like Bryce and I am glad he is a Bill. I think he will have an impact before he graduates. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRaginCajun Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 I personally think that Bryce has no ability as a basketball player. It does not mean that I am necessarily right, he could go out these next two years and prove me wrong. Bryce is an upperclassmen and has been with this program for three seasons, playing in two of them, I feel like that is enough time to develop an informed opinion on him as a player. I have seen nothing in him that makes me feel like he can contribute. Like I said, this is my opinion, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I attend all of the Billiken games with a good friend of mine and we came to the conclusion early on in the careers of Bryce and JJ that we should expect little if anything from them, thats merely our feelings on those two guys though. I would love to see Bryce and JJ prove me wrong and become legitimate D1 players, but for me I don't see it happening. So far our impressions have been true with both guys providing this team with very little on the court. I post what I know and what I see, I realize not everyone will agree with me and thats fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 Ian is an all conference perhaps nba quality big man. Only a phychotic hater would expect Bryce to be playing 30 minutes per and use that as a negative in evaluating him. Bryce isn't as good as Ian right now. The same could be said of any center in Billiken history (maybe Bonner.) Calling him a waste is just wrong in my opinion..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 I personally think you are wrong. No matter..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 Brad is suffering from Larussa syndrome (albeit whith out that level of success yet...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRaginCajun Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 I am not basing my opinion on his playing time, I am basing it on his complete lack of basketball ability. We will see how he performs these next two seasons. I apologize if calling him a waste of a scholarship offended anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 And what is it Kshoe ... do you think every Billiken will suck based upon when they signed before you have ever seen them play. You are making assumptions to make your point ... I didn't say anyone was going to be great ... I also didn't say that you can't get any good players in the spring. But why must the assumption be that they are not going to be any good, the assumption that they may be great is just as valid. To assume that HD and AK aren't going to be good because they signed late (even though AK signed early with Mizzou) is silly. Then we should make the assumption that DM will be great, after all he signed early ... very early, so he should be really, really good. What I said was as a rule ... you should be getting most of your signings in the fall. And I believe that to be true. I think UB needs to be better ... I've always said that. Because I like UB doesn't mean I think he is perfect and doesn't need to improve in areas. I look at things though as a whole, I don't expect SLU to get a perfect coach ... I expect for them all to have positive's and negative's. As of today, I think UB's positive's outweigh his negative's based upon how I feel this season will turn out. If I am wrong and it doesn't meet expectations I will reassess my opinion. I also think a successful season for the team will help him get earlier signings. If it doesn't ... I think his days will be numbered. I just don't wish to harp on the negative's ... over and over again as we do on this board. For example Blake Ahearn's name gets brought up continuosly ... even though almost every person on this board (except Roy) think we should have signed him ... ok fine ... move on. He doesn't play here and I don't think he is going to transfer. It probably comes down to this ... some of us like to look at the positive's and discuss the posibilities (doesn't mean we don't recognize there are negatives) and some people like to discuss the negativves and discuss what my happen if nothing works out (and I know it doesn't mean they don't recognize there are some positives) I just don't know why the negatives get discussed so much more than the positives ... even though we are heading into a season where we have a good chance to make the tourney. Something we have only done 3 times in the last how many years. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majerus Magic Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 I totally agree. I was using the West Pine reference as maybe a viable excuse for past recruits. With this new arena, I would expect recruiting to become much easier. Believe me, I hope the excuses stop, but I was just offering one up, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 >>The next step will be to >>ban "negative" posts from well intentioned Billiken fans. 72 >>is being treated like a Mizloser or some other kind of troll >>and that's not right. > >What are you talking about? I want evidence that slu72 has >been treated by the "establishment" in a manner similar to >the way the "establishment" has treated the "trolls." Testy, testy. "bellyaching"??? Give me a break pal. "estblishment" - I didn't use that term, so I don't know what you're getting at there. Put the strawman away. Some people were lumping 72 in with putz and hardballs. That's not fair. I think 72 has shown himself to be a good Billiken fan, even if his outlook is not quite as rosy as some people would like to be. It's one thing to give crap to Mizlosers and other trolls who are not Billiken fans, but it's another to rip a guy simply because he's not as optimistic as others would like him to be. For the record, I am more optimistic about the state of the program than 72, but so what. Can't reasonable people disagree? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRaginCajun Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 Well said Skip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 I have a complete lack of basketball ability. Bryce is tons better than me I assure you. Your statement is overly harsh and makes you look foolish given the glimses we've seen of Bryce over the years. He isn't Shaq but he's better than YOU think...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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