FromGreeceWithLove Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 The Orlando Camp is over and it does not sound like he did anything to make himself a first round pick. So do you all think he will return SLU or keep his name in the draft? I do not want to turn this into a big argument about "sources" and his relationship with the program and Soderberg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 I would think that unless Toronto is telling him that they're going to take him with one of their second-round picks, or some other development that no one knows about, he would come back for another year. A good workout in Toronto paired with a great week at camp would have sealed the deal, but it doesn't seem like Orlando will put him over the top. Even if his relationship with Brad isn't very good at all, he's got to keep his career in mind and not do anything irrational. Another year of college ball would be great for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 unless there is actually something to the relationship rumors, i cant see anyway ian wont be back next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLUDrew Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 Even if he does not get along with Brad, which is a rumor far from being established, he has the rest of his career/life to think about. I think he realizes that coming back to SLU for one more year is BY FAR the best option he has in terms of improving his future earnings potential. I am not at all concerned that he wll not be back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FromGreeceWithLove Posted June 12, 2006 Author Share Posted June 12, 2006 I agree with the two of you and I think Pistol put the relationship issue in prospective. Ian seems to be an emotional kid, but sometimes you have to work for people you do not like and if Ian decides to remain in the draft because of some issues with the coaching staff he is hurting himself more than anything else. Sure the Billikens would not be as strong next year, but he could easily go undrafted and become another player with eligibility remaining who leaves people scratching their head as to why they went pro and asking what if he would have returned. I talked to TKBilliken and I believe the things he said, however I think a lot of the things TKBilliken relayed may have been said out of frustration and without a lot of true rational thought. Ian is a good kid and I think when it comes down to it he will make the right decision and be dominating the A-10 for one last season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 A rumor ... far, far, far from being established. Just one guy that no one has a clue about. Who also said he was told not to say by his "source" ... but did so anyway. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman and loyal subject of Billsboy and all ex D1 players and coaches everywhere. You da man Billsboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 Maybe TKBilliken was the source for Deadspin.com and Pujol's trainer's involvement with Grimsley. Any truth to the rumor I heard that Keith Olberman will have a story tonight on MSNBC regarding Brad and Ian's relationship? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FromGreeceWithLove Posted June 12, 2006 Author Share Posted June 12, 2006 TKBilliken has relayed to us information that is from an individual very close to the Vouyoukas situation. I can see why you all do not want to believe what he has written, but you are the same people who believe Soderberg is doing such a great job with the program and see everything as just peaches. Well, having talked to TKBilliken I believe him 100% and I can assure you that there has been a lot of internal things we have not heard about. If Vouyoukas does go pro, I would not be getting too comfortable in StL if I were Coach Soderberg. Many of you think TKBilliken is blowing smoke, but I am afraid you should be giving him more credit and realize that this program is not what you all believe it to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 You just stepped into dangerous territory. Beware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 THE ABC LIVES ON! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLUDrew Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 Roy, let it go. You latched on to this "ABC" phrase and can't stop using it. I think it has been in every single one of your posts over the past month or so. Come up with something intelligent to post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 drew, i would think as one of the leaders of the abc you would be honored. i use it because anti soderberg posts is what i am typically responding to. so i would quit using it when the abc quits their attacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLUDrew Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 How in the hell is disagreeing with him an "attack?" What has he done to make him beyond reproach? You are probably one of those who thinks those of us who don't support Bush are "anti-American" too, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 But you don't have to pin it on everything that criticizes Brad in any way, shape, or form. No one is perfect, and a discussion board should include both sides of the argument. I'm a Brad fan, but would be downright lying if I said everything he's done is perfect. We shouldn't be completely unwilling to hear arguments against him- and they're not all personal slams against him, either. Many posters take their time, and make well-constructed points. They could just as easily pin a "PBC" Pro-Brad Crew on every positive post about him, but that would just illustrate that attempting to label every post serves no purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 your writings in the last few months goes beyond "disagreeing" drew. you political thought was out of bounds and has nothing to do with coach soderberg so i will ignore that stupidity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 >THE ABC LIVES ON! Roy, this labeling of some people as ABC is silly. I think there are a lot of good fans on here who present the pros and cons with Brad. Some see more cons than others, but that's o.k. There should be room for disagreement on this board. Pro: Landing two outstanding local freshmen last year and putting together an outstanding nucleus in Tommie, Kevin and Ian. Pro: playing outstanding disciplined defense. Con: Very disappointed that we still have two unused scholarships and didn't significantly add to our three-player nucleus. Con: Disappointed in the way we finished last season and didn't make the NIT. I'm right in the middle now with coach. The next year or two are huge and I could tilt either way on the Brad scale. Making a trip to the Big Dance and landing a good recruiting class or two are the key for me. If not, then it will be time for a change. I'm not sure why you have no tolerance for Drew. I think most of his criticisms are well-thought out. He strikes me as a well-intentioned, reasonable fan who wants to see the team do well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 ace said, "I'm right in the middle now with coach. The next year or two are huge and I could tilt either way on the Brad scale. Making a trip to the Big Dance and landing a good recruiting class or two are the key for me." two years is one thing. most of these guys including drew dont seem to want to give two more weeks. ace said, "I'm not sure why you have no tolerance for Drew." see above Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 >ace said, > >"I'm right in the middle now with coach. The next year or >two are huge and I could tilt either way on the Brad scale. >Making a trip to the Big Dance and landing a good recruiting >class or two are the key for me." > >two years is one thing. most of these guys including drew >dont seem to want to give two more weeks. > > >ace said, > >"I'm not sure why you have no tolerance for Drew." > >see above Roy, I can't speak for Drew, but if he is not willing to give coach as much time as me, big deal. We may not always agree, but I am tolerant of his opinions because they are usually pretty well though out. I think Drew has pointed out some valid criticisms. He's not some crackpot Mizloser trying to stir up trouble. I think he is a passionate fan who is hungry to win. Nark has also expressed some well-thought out criticisms of Brad. If we lose Ian and coach follows it up with another lackluster recruiting class next year, then Drew will have been ahead of the curve. If everything comes together and the team is dancing, then his concerns will have been answered. Time will tell. While coach strkes me as a good guy and I'm rooting for him, ultimately I'm rooting for the team first. If Brad is good for the team, then of course I want him to stay. If I start getting indications that things aren't heading in the right direction, then it is bye bye Brad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 look, i like drew. same with davidnark. just had lunch a few days ago with nark in fact. and i agree they are excellent presenters of their thoughts. however, that doesnt mean i have to like and agree with their views. while it is no secret i like coach soderberg, i also have voiced issues with his coaching as well. i hate the way he plays his recruiting cards. i dont like the fact that in his time here he hasnt really recruited a legitimate power forward. however, all in all imo he has done a very good job and doesnt deserve the smack he has been getting after giving us the best season of billiken basketball since romar left plus likely returning 7 out of our top 8 players from last season with two power forwards to add to the mix and a shooter. both aspects (power forward and shooters or lack of them) were the biggest open sore on the roster last year. thus, i just think it is wrong to be demanding immediate results or else threats. looking back on my billiken fan days, imo the one telling tale is a lack of stability. and i believe we have to establish a strong base to grow. not start over every 3 years. that was the key with gonzaga. and that is what the likes of a saint louis university has to do to ever become a player. not play musical chairs with the coaching staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLUDrew Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 Ace, first off, thanks for recognizing that I am a passionate fan. I don't understand why my questioning Soderberg has made some question whether or not I am a loyal Billiken fan? What's funny is that I once stuck up for Rich and Roy in a thread stating that even though we don't agree on much, I would never question another fan's passion and nor should anyone else. I guess they don't feel the same way, as everything I say is labeled as an "ABC" rant. Anyway, contrary to Roy's assertion that I wouldn't give Coach "two weeks," I have said countless times that he at least deserves this coming season to see what he can do with this team which he is responsible for assembling. I have said that if we do not reach the NCAA, then coach should be brough back IF he can land a very strong recruiting class. If he fails to make the tourney AND has another lackluster recruiting class, then he needs to find employment elsewhere. I do not at all feel like we need to hold on to him just to hold on to him. Mike Anderson is going to give us all we want in terms of recruiting battles, and I am not sure Brad can go toe-to-toe with him in that arena. I think Brad is a great guy and a great role model, but I do not necessarily think that he is the right Coach to really take this team to the next level. I think Roy likes Brad a lot personally, and while I understand that, I think we need to look beyond that. I don't know that Brad has the willingness to "play the game" that must be played in today's recruiting wars. By the way, I don't mean cheat when I say "play the game." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FromGreeceWithLove Posted June 12, 2006 Author Share Posted June 12, 2006 I like the fact that we have this mix on the board. Look at the Cardinals, up until the past couple of seasons, there was constant disagreement as to the whether or not Tony LaRussa was doing a good job. The majority of the posters on this board just want to see SLU succeed. My main concern comes from the fact that Soderberg had success in his first two seasons making the NIT with Romar holdovers and since then with "Soderberg" teams we were well below .500 in one season and missed the NIT this past season. I like the direction of the program, with two all-freshman player, and an all-conference center, but I think the criticism of Soderberg is founded. Where is the power forward that we have needed for the past four seasons? I will give credit to Soderberg when I think he has earned it, but I have seen little that makes want to give him a "few more years." As Bernie wrote, nice guys get fired too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 what big time recruits has mike anderson stolen from coach soderberg that justifies your contention that brad cant go toe to toe with him recruitingwise. and for the record drew, i have never questioned your fanship. i just dont agree with your short leash on coach soderberg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 As with Roy I don't think I ever questioned your being a billiken fan. I, like Roy, think Brad has earned another year or two. I tend to agree with you that Brad is in big, big, trouble with no post season next year and a lackluster recruiting class. I wouldn't say fire him but I'd say let him know he's on his way out with no dramatic improvements..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 Based upon what ... why would we believe him. He gives us an unsubstantiated rumor, won't say his source, and even says he wasn't suppossed to say. Tell me ... what would make us believe him. I heard that Coach K is getting fired if he doesn't win it all next year ... I have heard from a source that says that he doesn't get along with the AD ... I wasn't suppossed to say ... but you guys are all such good friends ... and I know you won't say anything to anyone else. Do you believe me? Well of course not ... and that is all we got from TK .... he may in fact be right .... but at this point, what has he said that would make us believe him? Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman and loyal subject of Billsboy and all ex D1 players and coaches everywhere. You da man Billsboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 Drew ... as much as we disagree. You have held the same stance you posted above. I sit somewhere between you and Roy. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman and loyal subject of Billsboy and all ex D1 players and coaches everywhere. You da man Billsboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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