Taj79 Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 .. from today's Baltimore Sun ... "The Atlantic Coast Conference has entered into serious discussions with Boston College about becoming the league's 12th member, sources told SportsLine.com. A decision is expected within the next few days. ACC presidents and chancellors have discussed the situation in the past 48 hours, and, although no decision had been made as of Tuesday night, a resolution was expected sooner than later. Sources said Boston College wants to join the ACC and is waiting for an invitation. The conference didn't extend an offer after talks during the summer. A 12th member would enable the ACC to hold a football championship game, which could generate $6 to $10 million." Hmmmmm .... seems to me that the Big East would be SOL as far as the BCS and football are concerned. A thrid major football progrma would be gone. If you agree that Louisville and Cincy can adequately replace Miami and VaTech, who now moves in to replace BC? That also takes a major basketball player out of the Big East as well. Do Marquette and DePaul want to go that route now? Or does an alternative, midwestern-oriented conference come back into play? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 supposedly they would take south florida or central florida to replace bc if that was to happen. imo, it would give conference usa the opening to again negotiate the possibility of putting the two conferences together again and coming out with two new conferences, one all sports (football) and one all sports but football. that would be about as close to our papal conference that we could get. that said, it seems the new commish for conference usa isnt too proactive and seems content to let the big east lead them around like a carnival pony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 Supposedly, the Big East will respond by poaching South Florida or Central Florida. Big East basketball will still be very strong, but their football will be a joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 Their will be no CUSA/Big East merger or papal conference right now because the Big East is locked into its TV contracts for several more years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schasz Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 First of all, I don't consider Cincy and Louisville even close to adequate replacements for VA Tech and Miami...they aren't even worth mentioning when you talk big time BCS football. Last weekend these potential Big (L)East entrants lost to S. Miss and USF. The papers and media folks here in Tampa seem to hold out some hope that USF will get a Big (L)East invite...we shall see on that one. I will say this in Jim Leavitt, USF has one of the birghtest young HC in the country. He was one of the finalists for the Alabama job last year. I would not be surprised if the Florida Gators aren't knocking on his door after they sack Ron Zook. I understand today that Leavitt has not signed a contract extension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 i agree david. none of these conference moves will happen for a couple of seasons due to contractual obligations and all. that wouldnt preclude the conferences from setting up now the reshuffling they wanted to go into effect at a later date. if my memory serves me correctly, when conference usa was formed, at least houston and maybe somebody else had to wait an extra year to be able to come, yet they were included in the original expected membership of conference usa. when this stuff all started, the cusa commish and the big east commish made gestures towards this happening. my understanding is that the more vocal schools at the time poohed it. however, you cant deny that losing bc now as well really starts to bring down the football perception of the conference. it almost makes you wonder if louisville and cincy are doing the right thing. what if the bcs people decide the power level of the new big east isnt worthy. wont that be an ironic twist. however, even then, the double basketball revenue would still be worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLU8592 Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 Is it possible there may be some renogotiation of the contract, now that three key members of the Big East are moving to the ACC? It seems that the Big East's entertainment value (in football) isn't what was originally bargained for (the old John Doe stepping in for Frank Sinatra kind of thing). The replacement schools don't seem anywhere near the equals of the schools that are leaving. I'm not saying this will happen, but if I were the network and was paying premium bucks for Miami, VT and BC matchups, I wouldn't be too happy--actually, I think I'd push hard for some type of renogotiation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 never thought about it before, but now that you say that, it would be surprising if the tv contract didnt have clauses and whereto's to protect themselves in the events that will undoubtedly happen here to drive down the quality of the product. i have to believe that is one of the reasons that the conferences have entrance and exit fees to try to discourage the movement of the teams. good post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gister Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 What I don't understand is that, if BC leaves, how does the Big East continue to look so attractive to the Conference USA schools? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 The basketball conference would still include Syracuse, Connecticut, Villanova, Georgetown, etc. Throw Cincy, Louisville, and Marquette into that mix, and you still have one hell of a basketball conference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLU8592 Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 If there is a reduction by the networks in what they are willing to pay, that is less $$ to Marquette and Depaul as new members of the BE (at least prospective members). Does this alter their decision making? This will be interesting to watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLUNATE Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 this would have to happen pretty fast....if i'm not mistaken the Big East is meeting very soon for the express purpose of raising the 'exit visa' fee to something like 10 million, just to discourage this kind of tom foolery.....Pitt, UConn and Syracuse are obviously ready to move on that, given the commitment they've made to facilities and football....... another consideration....does anyone really expect the big east to exist in it's current form after 2005? Between Congressional leaders calling the BCS a cartel and smaller schools threatening to leave (thus totally undercutting the whole BCS philosophy of beating up on patsies, but avoiding all but a few schools who could actually win a game) I think this idiotic program is on it's way out...the MAC's and WAC's aren't getting enough respect. Maybe that's optimistic of me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 plus, big east basketball money is running 2x that of conference usa as of late. so throw in some bcs money, and a bigger espn deal, financially it is still a big step up for all four of them. the question is how bad will their football revenues get squashed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 what will end up happening is a creation of another division of the ncaa. in effect it is already there for football, but watch it come about for all sports. the biggies will try to cut out about 200+ of the d-1 schools and have a "power" division. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gister Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 Sounds like the money's still there. You're right, the basketball side still looks pretty good. But for the football schools, I'm not sure about the longterm money potential. On the C-USA board, Cincy posters seem to think a move to the Big East will be a shot in the arm for football. I assume recruiting gets easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted October 10, 2003 Author Share Posted October 10, 2003 .. I agree with you david ..... you don't replace a Miami or VaTech power with UofL or Cincy ... and while BC hasn't been a recent consistent player on the national scene ... who the hell is USF or UCF to answer that question as well. The power arrow is pointed down. So let's come back to the statement of BE football being a joke. If the original quesitons started with the money and power grab that is football and the BCS, how can your answer be a joke? If I'm Syracuse, what do I do now? West Virginia? Pitt? Pitt was as high as seventh earlier this year. Pitt won a national title with Dorsett. Pitt has struggled for the last decade trying to raise itself back up to that level. Playing Miami, VaTech and BC had to help its power rankings and put it more on a national stage. Miam has national title out the wazoo. VaTech is arguably thee football power in the upper East Coast area. Now they are going to play Louisville. Cincinnati. Central or South Florida!?!?! Yikes!!! If BC goes, to me, the ramifications for the Big East continuing with football are horrible. Woudl you, as the BCS, grant an opening in your lottery payoff to the football likes of UConn, UCF, USF, Rutgers, WVa, UofL and Cincy? The MAC has more tradition than these guys do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bay Area Billiken Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 Marquette and DePaul want to be in the same conference with Notre Dame. Remember when they were all independents, they (along with Dayton) played each other twice a year, home and home, in the final years, in a de facto 4 team conference (of independents). In the Al McGuire Era, some of Marquette's players were from New York City. The Big East perceives Marquette as having a strong basketball tradition, even though SLU was more than holding its own with Marquette in recent times prior to the arrival of Wade. The Big East wants DePaul because of the Chicago market. It seems that Notre Dame holds most of the cards. If the Irish want to stay in the Big East, Marquette and DePaul will follow. If Notre Dame would agree to the formation of the much hoped for Papal Conference, it would happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 I agree that reputation is important, and tradition, but also what have you done for me lately. SLU will always play Marquette tough, either lose close games, or split or win. But even Mike Deane...lol...Mike Deane won 20 games 5 straight years at Marquette. It is like following ALL of a teams games. Here is how I look at it. If your team is very good, you want to play best teams possible...if say a Dayton or Marquette, SLU or whomever is in a down period you don't want to play them non-conference. If your team is struggling, you may wnat a little less ambitious of a schedule...although I am more in favor playing best teams who will play you. SLU nationally does not have the perception of a hoops school. I have been going to SLU games for decades, and also a lot of college hoops nationally...to have an opinion on it. Going to dance, and winning games in dance on an almost yearly basis is what SLU needs. Right now, people remember the Larry Hughes blip for SLU, and for the more educated fan, Claggs, Highmark, Waldman teams. That is it. It is my opinion that only very recently SLU has been losing the stigma of a commuter school as well. Media, etc...Let me give you another example..I road tripped to Wrigley Field for Cards/Cubs baseball series, as I do most years..(tough one this year, go Fish!!!)...and during 7th inning ...it was recognized as Marquette day at Wrigley...I was told Crean has song that 7th inning song 3-4 times...I believe their sports editor went to Marquette, or one of their editors...etc...Chicago papers track Marquette hoops more than U of I. It is like ND football, their home market is Chicago. Louisville has always had the tradition, teams, winners, Denny Crum, etc...and now Pitino. They get the attention. Cinci was great back in the Big O days...but were nothing for a long time until Huggy Bear built them as winner over and over, dominating conference foes each year...and it took them a LONG time to get any kind of national play or attention or respect. ...a lot of consecutive winning teams over the years first. The also have Huggins, who gets them attention. SLU just needs to make NCAA tourney 4 out of 5 years in a row or something, and build a few rounds of winners in there...and they will get more attention...some stability...etc...like they have in soccer. The soccer team has a big time reputation, and there have been a couple of teams in the 90's that didn't deserve their seeds etc...but based on reputation. Hopefully SLU can get the top local kids, then look to other areas of country and expand that interest to big media markets. That would be great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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