billiken_roy Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 imo polk shouldnt have been the poy that season in the metro area. the metro east side had far better players in dentmon, lisch, liddell, price, jones, etc. nate and the boys f'd up the decision. and they messed it up last year as well with the lafeyette kid, shipley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 about DP getting the award since Tommie and Luke were also in the same class and both are starting for a pretty decent program (do you really believe this program is "bad"?). The argument, "if the player of the year can't start in D1 then the city talent must suck" just doesn't hold water when three other players (KL being the other and I have no idea who the 5th was) from the same all metro team are starting over him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 .... deep down, I do not believe it is a "bad" program. if it were, I'd stop following. In my original message, I said "... (arguably) bad ....." This is taking the naysayers into account. One can argue pro or con for just about anything and the Bills are not devoid of such arguments. So I'm just giving acknowledgment where it might be due. I've said before that the program's swing is on the up right now. I believe that and support it wholeheartedly. Maybe this is a backward skip to some of the other threads getting on here by our resident local St. Louis talent guru. I mean, he's got us offering and signing kids based on one game, or with kids that are freshmen and sophomores ... yet, here is a POY award, based on the whole year, and even a kid with that pedigree is no lock as a D1 player. I think it just goes to show what an inexact science this all is. As long as the coach is the one signing these kids and is living and dying with them .. so be it. You are probably right in the fact that my gripe is with whoever is doing the naming. But in the long run, I would offer that this award, at least for the St. Louis Metro area, is suspect at best. Then we continue to get posts about certain Top Ten or Top Twenty high school teams and yet not a single one of the their recent graduates is having much success anywhere. Given that track record, would you want the STL POY noose around your head or not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 to literally ignore almost everything V-Time writes the better you'll be. The guy stil believes MU is better than SLU this year. His credibility is dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NashvilleBilliken Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 >Maybe this is a backward skip to some of the other threads >getting on here by our resident local St. Louis talent guru. > I mean, he's got us offering and signing kids based on one >game, or with kids that are freshmen and sophomores ... yet, >here is a POY award, based on the whole year, and even a kid >with that pedigree is no lock as a D1 player. I think it >just goes to show what an inexact science this all is. As >long as the coach is the one signing these kids and is >living and dying with them .. so be it. I'll assume that you did NOT see the game on Saturday. DP was amazing on the defensive end AND running the point. All accounts say he could score with the best of them in high school. What happened to his shot, I really don't know. But to say "is no lock as a D1 player" is just absurd. I'd be willing to bet big bucks DP could find other options if he left SLU... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 i do agree with that nashville. dwayne is a fantastic athlete and a savy coach will see the potential. there are too many programs that lack a quality point guard to ignore that. we are lucky to have dwayne polk. the problem for dwayne polk is we also have tommy liddell and kevin lisch and anthony drejaj who might give up something in the point guard aspect but then add more in other areas to place them ahead of dwayne in the pecking order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 Talentwise St. Louis area basketball is on the same level as say, Cleveland or Louisville-- decent but not spectacular. When the typical St. Louis high school frontline consists of 6'4 and 6'5 D-3 players, small players like Alex Moosman and Joel Shelton tend to be a lot more successful at getting to the hole at the high school level than they would be in Detroit and Baltimore. That tends to skew the POY awards somewhat. But based on how he has performed and how well his team has done, Moosman deserves to be metro POY even though he may only be a role player in college. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLU_Nick Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 Didnt polk have 30 something points in the state championship game hitting like 7 or 9 threes. Is POY based only on stats or the entire package. That is one clutch performance in a championship. I have seen Lisch and X Price come up huge, but not like that. Granted they didnt have the personnel that DP had at Vashon. But I think you guys are looking at how KL and TL are playing better college ball than DP right now, and basing your decision on that. Polk dominated in the Xavier game, and it does not even matter if he cannot score. He drives in and gives open 3s to KL, LM, and AD. He rarely turns the ball over and when he does find his shot, it will be Dee Brown-like. Polk is pretty much the one man fast break for SLU right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brehms14 Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 I agree to a certain extent. DP has game. I'm just afraid that trying to incorporate the coach's philosophy is hard and unfortunately everyone doesn't grasp it like that. I look past the missed shots and look at how the player shoots, or not shoots for that matter. I believe all the guys were recruited for their talents, and capabilities, those characteristics should be incorporated into the coach's philosophy. I know u guys will think i'm always hard on the coach, but the players rely on the game that got them thus far, of course their game should develop with experience but often times what happens is that the player's role changes so much from what they're used to that, their shots don't come easily. Going back to Reg..Reg was an all around player, he played a lot of the 3 in High school (behind Juan Dixon), With Karl Crauser at St Thomas More his game was to cut to the basket and slash, with Slick passes and he had big men who were ready to score if he missed..of course he could hit threes, but he wasn't reliant on his 3 pt shot just yet..he was a stop and pop..while at St Thomas More, then at Villanova his role was to hit the 3's, put points on the board and make his free throws..he lead the big east along with Gary Buchannan in FT% at one point., Mike Bradley was the go to man for NOVA so again REG's role changed he became better at his outside jumpshot, then he moved onto SLU, where he wasn't recruited to be the Go to man (Marquee was the man), Reg was thrown into that role later on and I would say wasn't physically prepared. With varying styles of coaching I feel he lost the heart of his game, the part that got him all those scholarships and began playing the role for his coaches. I know for a fact he never played his best basketball at SLU and you guys unfortunately only saw an inkling of what he can do. It's hard to play your game, when u have many different people telling you what your game is or should be and needless to say if u're hurt. I say don't give up on DP, i remember many on this board praising POLK, just because his shots aren't good don't give up now guys. Though I was the one of few that continually said DREJAJ should and would start over POLK, which I think is right..I'd say give POLK a chance to get it together, unlike Reg, he has had the same college coach and should be well prepared for his next two years at SLU, that makes a big difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 i saw lisch and justin dentmon have battles that are already legendary. those were just games that cant even be compared imo. both would end up with stats that were like triple doubles plus 35+ points. that is better than any slug of the day that vashon would face in the championship game (save last year). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 .. again. I saw Reg at the GeeDub game, knew I knew who that was in the hat and camel coat, but didn't realize it until the game was over and we were long gone into the night. Did you happened to make it? For the record, I am not giving up on DP ... my question is more towards the award and what appears to be a curse on those that win it. Maybe like the Grammy's and "Best New Artist." Starland Vocal Band. Milli Vanilli. Creed. Win the award = disappear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 So if a POY in Chicago flops should we assume Chicago HS basketball is bad, suspect, over rated or what. ... and I wouldn't call DP a flop just yet. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 I would think they base the award on their HS careers not college potential. DP was the best player on the best team. IMO he easily deserved the award. I also think he has a load of college potential. Yes he must find a shot, but if he does, he will be a star. If he doesn't he will still be a good player for SLU as he learns to rely on what he does best. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 On a one-and-done basis? Absolutely not. But if there was a history ... maybe you do, maybe you don't. But the underlying current .. not the individual ... is my question. Maybe I am wrong but it seems more times than not, the STL POY title doesn't translate to much at the next level. And I am NOT selling DP short or out of the equation just yet. I just think that a large metro area POY should do more than what Dp is doing. It seems to me that if we recruited each and every STL POY, we'd be stuck with a bunch of role players who total sum would not measure up to the individual parts (or press clippings). I am sorry this deals with such a great kid as DP. I think I could ask the same questions about Anthony Jones from the early 80's. Same situation. Same high school. Same college. And an overall pitiful college career. Kshoe got me good .. he said I need to blame the slection committee. That might be it here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brehms14 Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Yes I was at that game. It was nice seeing the team, I think they played well. I understand your point about Polk, u know how I read all the post and responses first and just summarize my input ..it's definitely good to be back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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