BlueCrewPres Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 People on this board have been discussing and debating who is starting, who is playing this many minutes, who is coming off the bench, etc., but I would like to shift to the topic of team leadership. This is a HUGE intangible, and clearly we did not possess it last year. I know Drejaj always brings his intensity on the court, and hopefully IV will lead by example while playing, but will we have a player challenging the team in the locker room when we're down by 7-10 at the half or down by a bucket with two minutes left?? We didn't have that vocal leadership last year, and we started off the season slow, losing to much lower teams and coming up short in almost all of the close games. From what I have read, Lisch and Liddell are accomplished players and will improve this team tremendously, but they will not be the leaders of the team. VN is in only his second yr despite being a senior, and Drejaj's role will defitinely not be comparable to a team MVP who can inspire players by putting up flashy numbers. Ian has never been a vocal player/leader, and I have little reason to believe JJ will step up and fill this role. Who does that leave?? Those of you that have watched practices, what have you seen? Thoughts, comments, disagreements?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iggy Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 KL. He'll be a leader his whole career here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 Good post ... In the practices I saw VN was very vocal and seemed to be a take charge guy, as is AD. One thing though ... you can't confuse vocal leadership with getting the job done. AD has shown in the past that he is not afraid to take the big shots, but is he the guy we want taking them? I would say that we want the ball in Kevin or Tommie's hands. Personality wise ... I would say Kevin. He has all of AD's intangible's plus the skill to hit the shot. Kevin can also create his own. That was the problem last year, no one could create their own shot. This year we have KL and TL that can. They also both have the vision and the court sense to find the open man if they have nothing themselves. Danny Brown may also turn out to be that kind of player also. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 I think there is only one answer to this and that has to be Anthony Drejaj. I agree with your assessment that he won't put up guady numbers but I don't think the posting of such numbers draws automatic respect and acknowledgement as the team leader. It has been said before by any number of folks, even those that might be dissing Anthony for his actual production, that he leaves it out there on the floor each and every night. I agree, but I still suspect he to be suspect of immense god-given talent as far as the court is concerned. I think it speaks volumes as to what Brad said about his being the first player-coach in SLU history. I cannot think of any instance where the imported European was the team leader in college sports. While I am sure someone will point out someone, one does not prove the case. As a matter of fact, I think there will be a few, but they will be the exceptions rather than the rule. I don't see our Greek Adonis ever rising to those heights. Even the recent Australian imports never rose to that level ... the Longley's, the Gaze's, the Schenshers. Your point on Newbourne is well taken. I think JLove and MoJeffers assumed the roles of team leaders as the seasons wore on but may not have been the leaders even on their senior teams .... those honors may have fallen to guys like John Redden and Marque Perry. Even Kenny Brown was not the team leader come his senior season. As for the freshmen, even if the freshman is your team leader, they usually have a bit of reserve in them. I'd even say that if the leader is not AD, then the next logical candidate is actually Dwayne Polk ... if he is indeed the point guard and former POY that all say he is. You've got to go with experience as far as leadership is concerned and to me, given the state of this team, that's Drejaj. Maybe next year for Lisch or Liddell but not now. Case in point, even though the ball club went through H Waldman his senior year and he "ran" the club, most would say that Claggs and Hmark were equals. Now that would be nice ... multiple leaders. That's when you know you're solid. The fact that we are struggling to find one speaks volumes to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 "I know Drejaj always brings his intensity on the court, and hopefully IV will lead by example while playing, but will we have a player challenging the team in the locker room when we're down by 7-10 at the half or down by a bucket with two minutes left??" In all seriousness, how would any of us know what players are challenging the team in the locker room? As far as on the court leadership, I don't recall any of our NCAA tournament teams having any fiery, rah-rah types. They pretty much led by example. Watch who demands the ball in the last two minutes of close games. That's who our leader is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SShoe Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 I don't see any reason why Dwayne Polk can't be a team leader...smart, charismatic kid who will have the ball in his hands a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 I don't think we are struggling to find one. I think emotionally VN and AD are our leaders as will KL be, just by the example he sets. As far as taking the crunch time shot though ... I think the ball has to start out in TL or KL's hands. If AD happens to be the open guy ... I have no problem with him shooting ... we know he is not afraid of the situation ... but KL and TL can take it themselves if the D gives them the opportunity ... or they can both find the open man for the shot. Last year we couldn't even get the shot off half the time ... DP had the ball and he cannot get to the hole and shot poorly ... the rest of the team just sttod around and waited for something to happen. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SShoe Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 there's a difference between being the team leader and being the guy with the ball in your hands at the end of the game. For example, Reggie was often the guy taking the last shot two years ago at the end of the game, but Josh Fisher was still the team leader. I agree TL or KL will probably have to be the go to guys at the end of the game. I wish I could say IV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 I can tell you who will demand it (the ball) ... that is Kevin. Usually the guys that are vocal on the court and in practice are the ones that are the same in the locker room ... both practices I have been to ... that was AD and VN ... both being Sr's. I like that. I think AD has alot of respect from the team also. You can't miss him laying all on the line all the time, regardless of whether he plays 10 minutes or 30 minutes, he has the respect of the team. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 "For example, Reggie was often the guy taking the last shot two years ago at the end of the game, but Josh Fisher was still the team leader" Not that I'm disagreeing but in what way was Josh Fisher the leader if he wasn't a rah-rah guy and he wasn't the guy taking most of the shots at the end of the game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 I think both are team leaders ... Like 3star said ... We didn't have a rah rah guy on some teams ... the leaders were more quiet, do it type guys. This year I think we will have leaders of both sorts. VN and AD will be vocal leaders ... the one's providing inspiration by getting on a player who is not giving his all and trying to get people pumped up and motivated. Kevin will be a leader just by the intensity he brings along with his skill. Tommie just by his talent ... players recognize what he brings and will look up to that. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 the negative about liddell is imo, his self intensity. hell he brags about being a tracy mcgrady like player that is all about effortless and a sleepy look. that doesnt mean he isnt playing hard, but sometimes it looks it. i love the all out balls to the walls type athletes. lisch is that. plus he has the skills to go with it and the confidence to step up and be the man as well. however,he is not vocal. and i would think he never will be the vocal leader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 It's not the same thing as leadership,but I would be shocked if we don't run a clearout for Tommie at the end of a half or game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SShoe Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 >"For example, Reggie was often the guy taking the last shot >two years ago at the end of the game, but Josh Fisher was >still the team leader" > >Not that I'm disagreeing but in what way was Josh Fisher the >leader if he wasn't a rah-rah guy and he wasn't the guy >taking most of the shots at the end of the game? Fisher was a lead by example player. His stand-up D and presence on the court with the ball were attributes that significantly helped the rest of the team. I tend to think rah-rah leaders are kind of annoying in all honesty. I was just making the comment that the "best" player is not always the team leader (even though, Fisher might have been the best all-around that year). I think what Fisher did best was take what Brad wanted and put it out on the floor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NashvilleBilliken Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 I don't really like when somebody brags about himself, but maybe that's what the billkens need. A little bit of confidence. When's the last time we had an outspoken player, or somebody that had a little swagger to them? Not in my limited years as a fan. If anything, our teams over the past 2 years and particuraly last year had absolutely no confidence. We'd all stand around and wait for somebody else to shoot it. Afraid to take it strong. Very littel fun on the court. Maybe Tommie can instill his confidence in others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 The only question I have is - if AD has this leadership ability then where was he last year? A leader would have seen that RB and IO were not getting it done and would have stepped up - after all AD was a junior who had been here long enough to step up if he was capable of it. Talking the loudest does not make you a leader. It has to come from someone else - who? I also think that some are confusing leadership with who takes the big shot - they are not the same. Just because you are talented does not mean you can lead - look at Brett Hull. I throw my vote for DP or LM being that plauer this year with others maturing into it in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 Can someone tell me why anybody would think VN will be the leader on this team this year? He was zipo last year and just because you are a senior does not mean you are a leader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SShoe Posted November 4, 2005 Share Posted November 4, 2005 >I don't really like when somebody brags about himself, I'm sure the reporter asked who do you liken your game to the most, and Tommie probably just said one of his favorite players. I really doubt he's trying to boost himself up. he doesn't seem cocky, just quietly confident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted November 4, 2005 Share Posted November 4, 2005 i never took liddell's comparison of himself to mcgrady as any sort of bragging. in fact, i think he is saying he is a silent smooth player like mcgrady is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SShoe Posted November 4, 2005 Share Posted November 4, 2005 gotcha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted November 4, 2005 Share Posted November 4, 2005 Have you seen a practice? He goes all out and is clearly a vocal leader. You don't have to be the best player to be a leader ... just a player that gives everything he has ... and I think VN does. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted November 4, 2005 Share Posted November 4, 2005 "Have you seen a practice? He goes all out and is clearly a vocal leader" Which several of us noted in practices when he arrived on campus last year. But if you don't get it done on the court, I don't see how you can be called a leader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted November 4, 2005 Share Posted November 4, 2005 I agree with SShoe on this assessment of that particular team and season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted November 4, 2005 Share Posted November 4, 2005 In the ten-second-sound-bite, headline news, what-have-you-done-for-me-lately world in which we live, no one on this team qualifies ... the position is wide open. I suspect that most of us need to see that in someone new to the roster because if we are faced with what's returning ... well, let's just say it doesn't make the coffers overflow with confidence right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted November 4, 2005 Share Posted November 4, 2005 .. the best thing about freshmen is they turn into sophomores. Maybe it is Polk or Meyer ... if one gets off crutches soon enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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