Fools Gold and other observations

[Billikan]

In DP we thought we had a budding star, real gold. In most instances where I hear that a team has a freshman point guard, particularly one that is expected to play the entire game and run the show like a veteran, I immediately assume that it will be at least mid season before that team would be any good. Somehow, in this instance, I for one and a lot of our fans--and maybe our coach--forgot that and we had fool's gold-- a freshman point guard who played like a freshman. This is in no way a rip of DP--it is merely a comment on the fact that we all may have been looking at this team with rose colored glasses because there is a huge difference between a senior and a freshman pointguard.

I was very depressed after last night's game--only reading about it on this site --(THANK YOU STEVE FOR THE RUNNING COMMENTARY) -- simply because it was a loss in a game I thought we would win and when we went ahead by 3 at the end I was sure we would win. However, as depressed and unhappy as I am, I am amazed at how quickly this group has turned on the coach. Just a few weeks ago everyone was saying that we had to sign him to a long term contract to make sure he stays and then after one game he is dirt. It is a real example of the "what have you done for me lately?" attitude that is prevalent in our society. In particular, I am very concerned about the sister of a player coming on this site and ripping the coach. I have said repeatedly that I do not like it when we call out individual players and call them "worthless", etc. Although I understand the frustration, I do not see how this type of post can possibly help the team in any way. I wonder if any of you could stand the heat if you were publicly ripped if you had a bad day at work. I seriously doubt it!

Before the game I read the Sporting News preseason basketball mag. and they were very high on Austin Peay. It turns out they were right. In that same issue they said that Eastern Michigan has several very good big players but lacks strong guard play. This next game will be no walk in the park.

I do agree with the poster who said that we need to be 2-1 coming home from this tournament or this will be a very tough early season. I hold out hope that our coaches and players can adjust. The real question is--Do we have anyone that can shoot the basketball?

[billiken_roy]

who said coach soderberg was "dirt"?

to not expect the masses to be disappointed though is unrealistic. especially considering coach soderberg's wild move of basically starting 5 guards. what has tom frericks not done or done to deserve that? you want the fans to be understanding you gotta explain moves like that.

second, it might help if we had an opportunity to see (or at least hear) the game for ourselves. the fact that ms levick did not have this tourney ironed out for the common masses to observe is bound to set the minds running crazy for explanations of the game.

i for one have not come close to giving up on coach soderberg. imo he is the best coach the team has had in my 30 years of watching the billikens. but that doesnt give him a free ride on questionable decisions. of course we cant do a thing about it, and i will be sitting at my computer and listening tomorrow as though we are in the universal championship rooting for the billikens. and i bet most of this board will too.

[3star_recruit]

The only time I would use "dirt" is to describe Brad's offense. He just didn't seem to have a clue offensively, kinda like Pinkel. We can still be competitve but we're never going to be better than a 19-14 team unless some creativity is injected on offense.

[Tonka]

Guys, it's the first game!!!!! The posts this year are worse than last year!

[3star_recruit]

Tonka, everybody knows this is the first game. What's disturbing is that no matter who the personnel is our offense is always pitiful at the beginning of the season. This is the most horrific start we've had offensively to the start of the season since Brad has been here. We're going to be an even younger team next year and those kids will have even less experience running Brad's "system." So I guess we can expect 35 points in next year's season opener.

[tseugnekillib]

Billikan, I share your concerns about negative comments from a player's family members. Free speech notwithstanding, it is absolutely the "dark side" of internet boards, a very dangerous setting. The same "dark side" goes for when a player's family has to read a fan call their freshman son "worthless" after his very first exhibition game in which he scores 2 pts and grabs 3 rebounds in a six-minute cameo appearance.

imho, Coach Soderberg started the five players that have been the most consistent defensively from Oct16 to game time! Under Soderberg, playing time is EARNED, not handed out on a seniority basis. Every day is a new practice day, or a new game day, and a new evaluation will be forthcoming. No free rides!

As stated before, I don't understand why superb offensive athletes can't be superb defensive players/team defnsive players. My guess is that it is a strictly a matter of concentration and will power.

I'm confident that Coach Soderberg is very honest with his players. The players know exactly what is required and why they will play major minutes or minor minutes. It is up to the players to EARN their minutes.

I always thought the Missouri fans were the most fickled in the country. I now know that the Billiken board has their fair share of fickled fans as well.

[Tonka]

Let's be honest though, have we had offensive minded players since Brad's been here as a whole. I don't think we have. We've always had one or maybe two, but that's it. Trust me, I hate the fact that we struggle on offense time and time again. It's not like we lost this game by 40, because we couldn't score any points. Both teams didn't score for Sh$t considering it was an OT game. The whole flow of the game seemed ugly.

[Tonka]

were we not getting shots period or were we just missing the shots we took?

[tseugnekillib]

for the two years Coach Soderberg was at South Dakota State his team averaged 73 pts per game. He had about nine games where his team scored between 90 and 106 points.

granted Soderberg isn't coaching at South Dakota State this year, but he has a history of having relatively high scoring games in the past.

if you shoot only 16-61, including 3-16 from the 3pt line, your offensive numbers are going to be down. if the Bills would have made three more 3's (for a mediocre 37%) and only two more short jumpers (for a very mediocre 33%) you add 11 points to your total. if, if, if, if, if,.......you have to make shots regardless of your offense style.

last night, the Billikens got 61 shots versus on 47 shots for APU. The offense got the shots ...... too many misfires!

[3star_recruit]

I'm not interested in South Dakota State. I'm only interested in these pathetic starts against mediocre competition that Brad's SLU teams have every year, like clockwork. And I expect the team's offense will improve as the season progresses, just like the past seasons. But we're literally giving the first two weeks of the season away, every year. As Brehms said, the guys are just doing what they're told.

[kshoe]

If the 5 guys that play the most consistent defense all play roughly the same position then that strategy certainly doesn't work. Individual positions within the context of a traditional basketball line-up (2-3 guards 1-2 forwards and a C/forward) must be evelauated in deciding who plays. A five guard offense is not appropriate even if those 5 all play the best defense.

I don't understand why coach (or anyone for that matter) feels that we need to to change our line-ups to match up with smaller line-ups like UMSL and AP. If they have more athletic people at the 5 spot then us then that likely means we have a huge size advantage on the inside. Lets use that.

As for fickle fans...I haven't seen anything all that outrageous at this point. Nobody is asking for Brad to be fired. Most of the criticisms are justified and quite frankly losing to AP should never be acceptable. We are probably asking many of the same questions that Brad is asking of himself and his assistants today. What I find amazing is the people that think losing to AP is ok.

This Billikens team is talented enough for the NCAA. However, our margin of error for making the tourney is very small and games like last night make that margin virtually none. Every time you lose one like this you have to win one at a Gonzaga or Iowa or SIUC.

Nobody has jumped off the Brad bandwagon, but rightfully so he is going to fraw criticism when we lose games that should certainly be won.

[tseugnekillib]

last night's Billiken offense against APU generating 61 field goal attempts, which is more field goal attempts than any Billiken game last season. Last night was a grand case of missing shots ..... and I don't think the guys were told to miss shots!!

2003-2004 field goal attempts by regular season game:

49-42-50-41-56-57-47-54-43-58-56-52-53-39-56-53-54-48-59-52-53-55-48-48-46-43-54-43-45-51-59-51

[Billikan]

In looking at the stats I see that we had 14 more shots than or opponent but made 2 less. The problem is not getting the shots--the problem is with the shooting!

[Billikan]

Where did I say that losing to AP was ok- nobody said losing to AP was ok -However, your over the top harsh criticisms after the first game are ridiculous. You explanation that nobody at this point is calling for Brad to be fired underscores my point. "what have you done for me lately?' is the mantra of everyone today. By your way of thinking if the Bills lose the next game then it would be appropriate to call for Brad to be fired. The longer I watch the more I think that college athletics have become a joke and it is often directly attributable to the fans and their attitudes.

[tseugnekillib]

kshoe,

imo, three guys were sure to start: DP, VN and IO. Perhaps RB's ankle was an issue for not starting or perhaps it was his defensive effort. Whatever, AD got the 2-guard start. After that the choice was TF, DC, or IV. Perhaps because of APU size, or lack there of, the fifth starting spot went DC. Just a little bit better shooting percentage and this board has a different tone today. I expect VN to bounce back big from his zero point / one rebound nite.

btw, I don't know one true Billiken fan that wasn't very disappointed by the Bills loss to APU.

[courtside]

Obviously the concern for any of Soderberg's team's is offense. Soderberg will get his kids to work hard, play defense, transistion defense, and rebound.

I did not see the game so can't comment on it. But for someone to suggest that Polk was going to come in and play like a veteran and be an elite player his freshman year is drinking the kool-aid. Only a very small percentage of college freshman contribute in any significant manner, especially early in a season. Polk is a good recruit and will be a good player...in time.

The concern that goes hand in hand with the offense concerns is promoting the program. It is tough to sell tix to average fan when you can't score a decent amount of points. Obviously if you win it matters much less. Winning is the most important thing. But it is VERY tough to win if you cannot play games in the 90's or 50's depending on the particular game. There is something to be said for playing decently attractive om offense.

[Sheltiedave]

I am disappointed we lost, but am not disappointed we lost to AP. They spanked my favorite Illinois team in 1988, the year before they turned into the Flying Illini, because one fat forward kept shooting (and making) threes. One player on their team was scorching last night, and we lost. It didn't help much that anyone could have beat our entire team in a game of horse last night - a perfect example why defense is critical on the nights we can't shoot.

We are already better than last year, as we will not lose the three or four games this year we lose every year because we can't handle the ball and advance it past halfcourt. We also won't lose the one or two games in the non-conference because we don't have the healthy big body in the paint. We also have that covered this year.

We really are dependent on Newborne providing the off wing support(he never showed up despite playing 22 minutes last night) and on a big throwing down four or five baskets in the first eighteen minutes. We become too one dimensional with Reggie if the other two factors are not there. Dwayne has the talent to get the others involved, so it MUST happen.

As far as the grousing, I don't think Brad worries about the board one bit. He has seen the pattern among juco transfers, with most only providing one stellar season, so take a look at our two recent great jucos. Both Love and Jeffers were dominant their senior years, but only solid their junior years. Foreign big men take two(or more) years to get acclimated and start making good contributions. Freshmen take two years to learn the system and gain the strength to play 30 mpg at DI level(unless they are stellar like Dwayne.) Examples include Heinrich and Fisher, who really turned it on junior year.

While I would love to see us have some great success this year(while we have a Cincinnati type banger in Tom,) I have a great deal of confidence that we will reaLLy establish ourselves in Dwayne's junior year, when we have a nucleus of Dwayne, Tommie, Kevin, and hopefully Jared, plus our current underclass. The uptempo that Brad is transitioning toward will not arrive in full until then, when we have the frisky guard stable, and a group of atheletic bigs recruited with running in mind.

Keep in mind that Grawer desperately wanted to have a running club when we had Bonner, Newberry, and AJones, and had to call it off because noone else could effectively run for the majority of the game - and AB was as dominant a rebounder as Saint Louis will ever see.

[kshoe]

First of all I wasn't responding to you, I was responding to backwards billikenguest. And since you seem to have singled me out as somebody that is too critical of Brad I ask you to show me what I said in any of my posts since the loss that is "over the top". Just quote my words and tell me what I said.

Once you have done that explain to me how you made the leap that if the Bills lose the next game my logic would make it appropriate to call for Brad to be fired. All I said is it is ok to criticize Brad for this loss. I honestly have no idea how you made that leap.

If we can't criticize the coach after this loss then we can't criticize him ever. Do you believe we should never criticize a coach? Or is it just Brad?

You obviously have lower expectations and hopes for this program than I do.

[Billikan]

If you don't think that a lead in for a thread that asks-"What is Brad doing to make us such a terrible team.." is not over the top--comments that are based upon only one game this season -- then I think you completely miss the boat on what is harsh criticism. No one is suggesting that we can't criticize the coach but I was commenting on how he has gone from "must have" to terrible coach after just one game. The whole discussion is rediculous in my opiniion.

[kshoe]

Last year we had two "bad" RPI losses to West Virginia (#96) and Southwest Missouri (#97) with Marquette (#83)being the next worst one. I realize AP has had some nice upsets in its history but considering they lost almost their entire starting team from last year I would be shocked if they end up a top 100 RPI team. Thus, in one game we have already had a loss worse than anything last year. It is difficult for me to stomach.

[courtside]

Dave....I am not suggesting run and gun...but in order to be successful in college ball you need to be able to win games in the 50's or 90's ...basically in different ways. I am not seeking run and gun....but I am also not seeking using half of a shot clock to start a play or set either.

Simply put SLU needed to score more points last year to win. That is the key this year. Obviously if they do not defend or rebound, it will be a very long season. Those are the things that keeps SLU in games. ...not their offense

[kshoe]

because clearly my comments are not based on only one game this season. It was based on three seasons of observations. If you read the rest of the post you'd realize I turned it into a positive by saying his teams always get better.

For what its worth, 3-star and I made the observation about Brad's teams getting off to slow starts BEFORE the AP game. Follow the link.

http://www.billikens.com/dcforum/DCForumID3/3140.html

[slufanskip]

I got the game on the radio and listened from about 10 min left in the first half. Rammer and Earl kept commenting over and over on how many great open looks the Bills were getting. They kept saying the Bills will get it going because these are easy shots they are missing and they won't keep missing all day.

That tells me that DP did a decent job controlling the game and distributing the ball. All he can do is get them the ball when they are open with makeable shots. It sounds to me like he did that. He can't make players hit open shots.

Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman

[brehms13]

Excuse me??? R u referring to me?? As far as I know I'm the only sister of a player on the roster now. And I didn't Rip anybody, I didn't call Coach out on any damn thing, I said I didn't know what he was thinking and that I hoped he get his rotation together before the next game. You make sure you respond to the right person, when u try to paraphrase, because u have the wrong one.

For the record, I say what I feel, I would never disrespect a player or the coaches and say stuff on this board that I couldn't say to their faces, that's the type of person I am. I talk to the coach often, I knew the starting line up before u guys did days ago, If I have issues I call Coach directly. I don't know what u thought I said or wrote, but get your facts straight before calling me out, because I have no problem letting u know just how the hell I feel. If wanted to say "Coach did a piss poor job last night" I would have, but I didn't.

As far as coming on this site, I'm on this site every damn day. Now just in case I was wrong and u're not referring to me, because I'm only assuming u're talking about me, then just ignore this.

[brehms13]

P.S. I got on the players too, I didn't personally attack anyone, I said Reg's game was off, Reg and Drejaj had the most rebounds, Tom should've got more time. I unlike most on the board, listened to the damn game, and Brad was doing to much subbing and I felt he should have kept Tom in the game and u're telling me I"m ripping him. Did I call him worthless, did I say he was dirt, did I say his coaching was "bull", HELL no, so u explain to me what u're referring to. Anyone else that assumes I'm off the Brad wagon then u're wrong, but he can have an off night just like his players and he's not beyond discussion, just like the players. It's what u say in the discussion and not once did I say anything offensive about him.

I'm an advocate for no name calling, and be disrespectful, I'm offended that u tried to pull some cheap shot, instead of being Bold enough to use my name and say what u had to say. I'm pissed about that.