ACE Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 Regardless of who our coach is, going forward there are big picture challenges facing programs like SLU if something doesn't change. With the Pac 12 dissolving, the Mountain West is poised to slot in as part of the P6 of college basketball. Public schools with big alumni bases and largely second tier football programs, which comprises much of the MWC, have done well in basketball in this new NIL/free agency era. And they figure to remain strong with the former Pac-12 schools being gobbled up by the other P6 conferences. According to Lunardi's latest projections, outside of what I call the new P6, there are only three conferences with two bids each - the AAC, the WCC and the A-10... and the only reason the A-10 would get two bids is because Dayton got bounced. If they had won the conference tourney, the A-10 only gets one bid. So only 3 non-P6 schools that don't play football (Gonzaga, St. Mary's and Dayton) earned at large bids. *MAYBE Indiana State is able to scrape their way in with a 28-6 record and add one more to the list * There just aren't many at large spot for teams outside of the P6 - the way the NET is calculating is not helping mid majors. And as these super conferences grow and the number of conference games they play grows - there is very little incentive for P6 schools to play schedule non-conference games against good good mid-majors. Momentum is growing to expand the field to 96 teams in the future. This is an opportunity of course for the non-P6 schools to secure some of those extra at-large bids, but my concern is that these discussions are being driven the likes of the SEC. ACC and Big 10 Commissioners. Do you think these guys have the best interests of mid-majors in mind? If these guys could find a way to get 0-18 Mizzou an at-large bid they would. The true "mid majors" need to have a seat at the table as to how those extra at-large bids are doled out. Who is lobbying on behalf of the mid-majors? The big boys will be just fine, and low D1 schools will remain fine with their opportunities at the bottom of the bracket to get in by winning their conference tournaments, but what about the middle class of college basketball? They should be represented. An Indiana State at 28-6 should not have to sweat out getting in. Schasz likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy II Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 -from the NCAA website: The chair of the Men’s Basketball Committee for the 2023-24 season is Charles McClelland, the commissioner of the Southwestern Athletic Conference. Other committee members include Greg Byrne, director of athletics at Alabama; Barry Collier, director of athletics at Butler; Mark Coyle, director of athletics at Minnesota; Bubba Cunningham, director of athletics at North Carolina; Keith Gill, commissioner of the Sun Belt Conference; Dave Heeke, director of athletics at Arizona; Arthur Johnson, director of athletics at Temple; Martin Newton, director of athletics at Samford; Jamie Pollard, director of athletics at Iowa State; and Tom Wistrcill, commissioner of the Big Sky Conference. -the makeup of the Committee as far as P5/6 and other I don't believe has changed much over the years -while the P5/6 have a majority they don't have an exclusive but still get too many of the bids Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRN Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 TLDR Winning is what SLU should focus on. Old guy and SLU_Nick like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted March 15 Author Share Posted March 15 Yep, until we become like Indiana State - winning 28 games and having to sweat it out on selection Sunday. Then this issue will become much bigger on our little SLU centric community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lando Griffin Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 Look at Loyola, which bc of winning has gone from the Horizon League to the A-10 and the increased revenue and exposure for the school in general that’s came with it. SLU had that in the past, and isn’t far behind from being at the top of their game. But just win. If you win and go deep in the tourney year in and year out. They’ll be fine. Side shot out to the A-10 conf commissioner who needs to get her head out of her ass and start getting her conferences teams to schedule harder non-cons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted March 16 Author Share Posted March 16 1 hour ago, Lando Griffin said: Look at Loyola, which bc of winning has gone from the Horizon League to the A-10 and the increased revenue and exposure for the school in general that’s came with it. SLU had that in the past, and isn’t far behind from being at the top of their game. But just win. If you win and go deep in the tourney year in and year out. They’ll be fine. Side shot out to the A-10 conf commissioner who needs to get her head out of her ass and start getting her conferences teams to schedule harder non-cons. True, but again, you’re talking about the environment 5 years ago. Things have changed radically in the last 2/3 years. I don’t think a Loyola story happens any more in the NIL/free agency era. There has been a great deal of change in the landscape so quickly that I think a lot of fans and even many schools have been slow to fully grasp it. Look closely at the makeup what this year’s field will be. I think what Majerus did building a team getting a 4 seed followed by a 5 seed at a school like SLU will be a thing of the past unless some things change. Old guy likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lando Griffin Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 13 hours ago, ACE said: True, but again, you’re talking about the environment 5 years ago. Things have changed radically in the last 2/3 years. I don’t think a Loyola story happens any more in the NIL/free agency era. There has been a great deal of change in the landscape so quickly that I think a lot of fans and even many schools have been slow to fully grasp it. Look closely at the makeup what this year’s field will be. I think what Majerus did building a team getting a 4 seed followed by a 5 seed at a school like SLU will be a thing of the past unless some things change. Moser and Majerus’ teams were built on kids who worked hard and had won in high school. They may have not been the leaders on their state championship teams but they were full of winners so they were use to it and were coached up well! I think you can still build teams that way but you just would probably need an NIL supplement for the one or two stars that any team would naturally have. Like a Krutwig in the Loyola years, or a Yuri, French for the SLU years. One other thing from my original point. People want to be associated with winners. If SLU rattles off a couple tourney appearances, the dollars will start to flow and flow back quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 Ace, you may be right, but what is the solution other than to win and win a lot. We aren't switching conferences any time soon and that has been well documented. So what can we really do besides win? And places that I kind of disagree with you: - I don't buy that the Mountain West is now a part of a new P6. They are having a great multi-year run but the A10 had the same 7-9 years ago and the AAC had it for a while too over the last 5 years. Time will tell if that conference has staying power, but I don't think I'd call it P6 yet. - Indiana St. potentially getting screwed of a bid this year is criminal, but Dayton being a near lock given their resume shows the A10 still gets a certain amount of respect. I'm really not sure why Dayton is a lock, but they are. - Florida Atlantic is a good example of what can still be done in this era of NIL, with a little bit of good fortune (i.e. a deep tourney run). Win and win big and the NIL money will start to flow. There are no doubt that the new college landscape has a lot of challenges for smaller schools and I hate the new free agency every year for every player model, but it is what it is. Let's go get a coach that can when in this structure and it will all work out... Bizziken likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizziken Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 1 hour ago, kshoe said: - Indiana St. potentially getting screwed of a bid this year is criminal, but Dayton being a near lock given their resume shows the A10 still gets a certain amount of respect. I'm really not sure why Dayton is a lock, but they are. Dayton, to their credit, has put on a masterclass in terms of scheduling to the computers this year. NET of 23 (8-7 vs Quads 1 & 2) KPI of 11 SOR of 25. Ken Pom of 33 BPI of 34 All while not having any 'signature' wins. And they only finished 3rd in the conference as well as got bounced early from the A10 Tourney. This is the blueprint for success in today's college basketball...and it requires us to consistently perform well in conference (13+ wins), take care of business against teams we should in the NonCon, and try to schedule a handful of tough games (even if it's on the road). Sounds deceivingly so simple This year Dayton had the good fortune of playing LSU, St. Johns, and Houston in their NonCon Tourney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted March 16 Author Share Posted March 16 An article about the impact of switching from RPI to NET a few years ago. The A-10 is specifically mentioned. Not surprising the timing of the downturn in at-large bids began around this time. https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2877965-many-college-basketball-teams-wish-the-selection-committee-still-used-rpi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted March 17 Author Share Posted March 17 2 hours ago, Bizziken said: Dayton, to their credit, has put on a masterclass in terms of scheduling to the computers this year. NET of 23 (8-7 vs Quads 1 & 2) KPI of 11 SOR of 25. Ken Pom of 33 BPI of 34 All while not having any 'signature' wins. And they only finished 3rd in the conference as well as got bounced early from the A10 Tourney. This is the blueprint for success in today's college basketball...and it requires us to consistently perform well in conference (13+ wins), take care of business against teams we should in the NonCon, and try to schedule a handful of tough games (even if it's on the road). Sounds deceivingly so simple This year Dayton had the good fortune of playing LSU, St. Johns, and Houston in their NonCon Tourney. In the future Dayton will probably continue to be a contender for the A-10 conference auto bid, but will they be able to consistently compete in the current landscape for at-large bids on a regular basis after Holmes moves on? I'm not so sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old guy Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 Agree that Dayton without Holmes will not have the record it achieved this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bay Area Billiken Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 In the immortal words of Al Davis, "Just win, Baby." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bay Area Billiken Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 6 hours ago, ACE said: An article about the impact of switching from RPI to NET a few years ago. The A-10 is specifically mentioned. Not surprising the timing of the downturn in at-large bids began around this time. https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2877965-many-college-basketball-teams-wish-the-selection-committee-still-used-rpi This is a huge issue, and has made it that much more difficult for SLU in seasons before the just completed one. What is happening is patently obvious. The Power 6 is getting 75% of the NCAA At Large bids in 2024 per the NET. ACE likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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