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Goodwin: One of the top underrated CBB players


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8 hours ago, slufanskip said:

I bet Coach Ford agrees with Perkins needs to continue to be aggressive and look to score. However, I'm 100% sure he disagrees with the suggestion that JGood become less aggressive and give way to Perkins.  I'm also sure he can pick out ill advised shots from every player on the team but understands that it's occasionally going to happen with every good scorer. 

Not a single person is saying Goodwin needs to stop being aggressive!  A player can be Uber aggressive but still be CONTROLLED and aware.  I picked out one shot at a crucial part of the game but I could find a ton of times where Goodwin pushes it uncontrollably and throws up  a prayer while looking like he’s in the spin cycle.  Just be smart!  As far as Perkins, yeah he is an elite scorer and considering Goodwin and French collectively miss around 60% of their FT attempts I am much better with a shooter pushing the issue and being aggressive at the end of games that has a chance to knock down some free throws.

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8 hours ago, slufanskip said:

I bet Coach Ford agrees with Perkins needs to continue to be aggressive and look to score. However, I'm 100% sure he disagrees with the suggestion that JGood become less aggressive and give way to Perkins.  I'm also sure he can pick out ill advised shots from every player on the team but understands that it's occasionally going to happen with every good scorer. 

Goodwin should give way to Perkins.  In the 5 games this year Perkins has gone for 20+, he's averaged 10 FTA per game.  And he's made 8.  39-50 (78%).

Even if Goodwin and Perkins were equally gifted go-to scorer's, which they aren't, I can guard Goodwin easier than Perkins.  Because I know that the second Goodwin gets the step, I just hack his ass and give up 1 point or essentially force a turnover.

That's easy defense.  Not trying to mean to Goodwin, love Goodwin, but his poor FT shooting changes things.

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1 hour ago, Spoonball18 said:

Not a single person is saying Goodwin needs to stop being aggressive!  A player can be Uber aggressive but still be CONTROLLED and aware.  I picked out one shot at a crucial part of the game but I could find a ton of times where Goodwin pushes it uncontrollably and throws up  a prayer while looking like he’s in the spin cycle.  Just be smart!  As far as Perkins, yeah he is an elite scorer and considering Goodwin and French collectively miss around 60% of their FT attempts I am much better with a shooter pushing the issue and being aggressive at the end of games that has a chance to knock down some free throws.

 

50 minutes ago, jimbofive said:

Goodwin should give way to Perkins.  In the 5 games this year Perkins has gone for 20+, he's averaged 10 FTA per game.  And he's made 8.  39-50 (78%).

Even if Goodwin and Perkins were equally gifted go-to scorer's, which they aren't, I can guard Goodwin easier than Perkins.  Because I know that the second Goodwin gets the step, I just hack his ass and give up 1 point or essentially force a turnover.

That's easy defense.  Not trying to mean to Goodwin, love Goodwin, but his poor FT shooting changes things.

And every time you send Goodwin to the line, it's a more efficient trip than the average Bills possession. Plus you put opponents in foul trouble potentially reducing their time on the floor. 

We disagree. You and Spoonball see it one way. You think I'm wrong, I think you are. 

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7 minutes ago, slufanskip said:

 

And every time you send Goodwin to the line, it's a more efficient trip than the average Bills possession. Plus you put opponents in foul trouble potentially reducing their time on the floor. 

We disagree. You and Spoonball see it one way. You think I'm wrong, I think you are. 

This is a very good point. Goodwin going to the line for 2 FTs is a good possession for us (and for a lot of teams across the country)

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1 hour ago, Spoonball18 said:

Not a single person is saying Goodwin needs to stop being aggressive!  A player can be Uber aggressive but still be CONTROLLED and aware.  I picked out one shot at a crucial part of the game but I could find a ton of times where Goodwin pushes it uncontrollably and throws up  a prayer while looking like he’s in the spin cycle.  Just be smart!  As far as Perkins, yeah he is an elite scorer and considering Goodwin and French collectively miss around 60% of their FT attempts I am much better with a shooter pushing the issue and being aggressive at the end of games that has a chance to knock down some free throws.

What you said was basically Goodwin should now cede to Perkins ( the new sheriff in town) At least that's the way I read your post. I've made clear that was my disagreement from the beginning. The idea that Goodwin just throws up a ton of uncontrollable prayers is ridiculous. He shoots 49% from inside the arc. What's a ton? 1 a game?  I guarantee you we go through every game tape this year we find more ill advised shots from Perkins than we find from JGood. Perkins is really coming on strong and I like it. I want him to stay aggressive. However, even in this hot run, his efficiency inside the arc is just about equal to what JGood has been all season. In addition during the game your talking about JGood had 4 misses inside the arc the entire game. 

Had you said JGood should have been smarter during that shot, I would have agreed, but we have the benefit of hindsight. At the time I'm sure he believed he could make it. You followed it up with basically saying he should now cede to Perkins and I disagree. 

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3 minutes ago, slufanskip said:

What you said was basically Goodwin should now cede to Perkins ( the new sheriff in town) At least that's the way I read your post. I've made clear that was my disagreement from the beginning. The idea that Goodwin just throws up a ton of uncontrollable prayers is ridiculous. He shoots 49% from inside the arc. What's a ton? 1 a game?  I guarantee you we go through every game tape this year we find more ill advised shots from Perkins than we find from JGood. Perkins is really coming on strong and I like it. I want him to stay aggressive. However, even in this hot run, his efficiency inside the arc is just about equal to what JGood has been all season. In addition during the game your talking about JGood had 4 misses inside the arc the entire game. 

Had you said JGood should have been smarter during that shot, I would have agreed. You followed it up with basically saying he should now cede to Perkins and I disagree. 

I don't want JGood to stop being aggressive at all. Not even a little bit. I do want him to be smarter as a leader on this team. Not forcing things when they aren't just simply aren't there. How many times have we seen him pick up an OBVIOUS pushoff offensive foul late in close games. How many fouls does he pick up 40 feet from the basket unnecessarily? If we're going to do much of anything the rest of this season, we're gonna need JGood's aggressiveness, but he's gotta be smarter about how and when to use it.

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4 minutes ago, Reinert310 said:

I don't want JGood to stop being aggressive at all. Not even a little bit. I do want him to be smarter as a leader on this team. Not forcing things when they aren't just simply aren't there. How many times have we seen him pick up an OBVIOUS pushoff offensive foul late in close games. How many fouls does he pick up 40 feet from the basket unnecessarily? If we're going to do much of anything the rest of this season, we're gonna need JGood's aggressiveness, but he's gotta be smarter about how and when to use it.

The same can be said for every player on the team. I completely disagree with the idea that JGood is out of control or has all these bad fouls late in games. 

When a player begins to make a play, he believes he can succeed, that he can make that play.  There are more plays where he pushes the issue and is successful than there are when he isn't. During the run of play you don't have the benefit of hindsight. If you start asking him to quit making plays he believes he can make, you are going to lose good plays also and we lose who JGood is.  

In the end JGood shoots a good percentage inside the arc. 

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1 minute ago, slufanskip said:

The same can be said for every player on the team. I completely disagree with the idea that JGood is out of control or has all these bad fouls late in games. 

When a player begins to make a play, he believes he can succeed, that he can make that play.  There are more plays where he pushes the issue and is successful than there are when he isn't. During the run of play you don't have the benefit of hindsight. If you start asking him to quit making plays he believes he can make, you are going to lose good plays also and we lose who JGood is.  

In the end JGood shoots a good percentage inside the arc. 

But every other player on the team isn't the team leader, both emotionally and physically on the court. If JGood calms things down, everyone else calms down. Like I said, there are times in a game when he absolutely should push it, and there are times when he absolutely shouldn't. The line between the two seems to have gotten blurred the past few games. But you're right, as a team collectively, every player needs to stop forcing plays to one degree or another. 

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1 minute ago, Reinert310 said:

But every other player on the team isn't the team leader, both emotionally and physically on the court. If JGood calms things down, everyone else calms down. Like I said, there are times in a game when he absolutely should push it, and there are times when he absolutely shouldn't. The line between the two seems to have gotten blurred the past few games. But you're right, as a team collectively, every player needs to stop forcing plays to one degree or another. 

The decision when to and when not to is easier with the benefit of hindsight. For every play where you say Nope, shouldn't have done that. I can find one where you say Damn. Nice play JGood. If he knew he was going to miss the shot badly, I'll assume he wouldn't have taken it. The problem is when he has the mentality that starts to make him uncertain you lose who he is. What you are wanting done sounds good on paper but the reality of it is pretty tough. Experience will dictate the decisions he makes, but I want those decisions to be made with confidence and aggression even knowing after the fact we'll see a play we say WTF to now and then as that also gets me the play we say Damn to pretty often. 

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My point is, there's a difference between trying to rush 1v3 on a break with 12 minutes left in the 1st half, and trying to do it with a 4 point lead and 2 minutes left in the game...and he's smart enough to know the difference. If he's consistently getting called for pushoffs late in games, he needs to realize as a junior team leader that that's something A10 refs have started looking for and stop pushing off forcing shots late in games. I'm not asking him to pull up when he's got a lane. I'm asking him as the team leader to develop a better understanding and/or respect for the game situation at time and react accordingly. Going 110mph at all times, while impressive, isn't helping anybody. I don't think better game management is too much to ask from a player of JGood's quality.

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For me the timing is more based on 3 seconds left on the clock or twenty.  Last year we had Isabell and Bess for those last second prayers.  The year before it seemed like Hines always took that shot.......   

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2 hours ago, jimbofive said:

Goodwin should give way to Perkins.  In the 5 games this year Perkins has gone for 20+, he's averaged 10 FTA per game.  And he's made 8.  39-50 (78%).

Even if Goodwin and Perkins were equally gifted go-to scorer's, which they aren't, I can guard Goodwin easier than Perkins.  Because I know that the second Goodwin gets the step, I just hack his ass and give up 1 point or essentially force a turnover.

That's easy defense.  Not trying to mean to Goodwin, love Goodwin, but his poor FT shooting changes things.

Exactly.  I think most Billiken fans love (French and Goodwin) but Goodwin just isn’t a good shooter and sometimes his decision making is very questionable.  It is OK to be critical of this.  It doesn’t mean he isn’t a great player, but he has not reached his ceiling (hopefully).  Developing a better shot, controlled aggressiveness, and better decision making can take him to another level.  
My point about feeding Perkins is that he is a lethal scorer and JGood should know he doesn’t have to force things.  If I’m the opposition I would take my chances fouling Goodwin numerous times with under 4 min as opposed to Perkins stepping to the line.

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2 hours ago, jimbofive said:

Goodwin should give way to Perkins.  In the 5 games this year Perkins has gone for 20+, he's averaged 10 FTA per game.  And he's made 8.  39-50 (78%).

Even if Goodwin and Perkins were equally gifted go-to scorer's, which they aren't, I can guard Goodwin easier than Perkins.  Because I know that the second Goodwin gets the step, I just hack his ass and give up 1 point or essentially force a turnover.

That's easy defense.  Not trying to mean to Goodwin, love Goodwin, but his poor FT shooting changes things.

Exactly.  I think most Billiken fans love (French and Goodwin) but Goodwin just isn’t a good shooter and sometimes his decision making is very questionable.  It is OK to be critical of this.  It doesn’t mean he isn’t a great player, but he has not reached his ceiling (hopefully).  Developing a better shot, controlled aggressiveness, and better decision making can take him to another level.  
My point about feeding Perkins is that he is a lethal scorer and JGood should know he doesn’t have to force things.  If I’m the opposition I would take my chances fouling Goodwin numerous times with under 4 min as opposed to Perkins stepping to the line.

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37 minutes ago, moytoy12 said:

Not taking a side in the debate, but here are some analytics on Perkins’ recent games.
 

 

Great stats!  Again, I think there are just a few people who think it’s impossible to be critical of a player and still think of them as a stud.  I guess I got in their “safe space” lol.

7B990F6D-39F5-4395-BEDC-DF591CD7A8F7.png

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1 hour ago, Reinert310 said:

My point is, there's a difference between trying to rush 1v3 on a break with 12 minutes left in the 1st half, and trying to do it with a 4 point lead and 2 minutes left in the game...and he's smart enough to know the difference. If he's consistently getting called for pushoffs late in games, he needs to realize as a junior team leader that that's something A10 refs have started looking for and stop pushing off forcing shots late in games. I'm not asking him to pull up when he's got a lane. I'm asking him as the team leader to develop a better understanding and/or respect for the game situation at time and react accordingly. Going 110mph at all times, while impressive, isn't helping anybody. I don't think better game management is too much to ask from a player of JGood's quality.

It's all relative.  Goodwin is significantly better at game management than he was as a freshman.  He's better at game management than he was last year. Based on the trend, he will probably be even better at it next year. This is a good thing.

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1 hour ago, Spoonball18 said:

Great stats!  Again, I think there are just a few people who think it’s impossible to be critical of a player and still think of them as a stud.  I guess I got in their “safe space” lol.

7B990F6D-39F5-4395-BEDC-DF591CD7A8F7.png

There you go. Make it a personal attack.  That's usually a good choice when you're wrong. Heck, I should probably get used to it though. Something tells me I'll see a lot more posts where you are wrong. And doesn't it seem like you're the one offended by the disagreement? 

I just noticed you're the same guy in the Free Throw thread pushing to just bank it in. Now I get it. Sorry to have wasted your time. (and mine lol)

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1 hour ago, 3star_recruit said:

It's all relative.  Goodwin is significantly better at game management than he was as a freshman.  He's better at game management than he was last year. Based on the trend, he will probably be even better at it next year. This is a good thing.

I whole-heartedly agree. I love JGood. Not meant to put him down at all. Without him, we're a .500 team at best. But the difference this year is that he is THE GUY now. He can't fall back on Isabell or Bess anymore. He's gotta be better because he's the engine and he runs the show now, and his teammates need that from him. That's NOT to say he's horrible at game management, AT ALL. And I don't think he makes those bad decisions out of ignorance. I just think he's such a competitor, and he knows he's the leader now, that he always wants to be the hero and he tries to do too much and force it. That's a good problem to have and I'll take JGood's aggressiveness over a player afraid of big moments any day. But he needs to learn to pick his spots, especially late in games, when other teams KNOW he's gonna have the ball in his hands. He needs to trust him his teammates...and if they miss, he can go get that big offensive board. It probably sounds like nitpicking (it probably IS nitpicking), but something he needs to work on.

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1 hour ago, slufanskip said:

There you go. Make it a personal attack.  That's usually a good choice when you're wrong. Heck, I should probably get used to it though. Something tells me I'll see a lot more posts where you are wrong. And doesn't it seem like you're the one offended by the disagreement? 

I just noticed you're the same guy in the Free Throw thread pushing to just bank it in. Now I get it. Sorry to have wasted your time. (and mine lol)

It’s a meme!  It’s not an attack!  The fact that you think a meme is a personal attack just validates the meme beyond any doubt.  Relax.

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I’m honestly not trying to be mean lol...I just don’t understand why people think that saying something critical is weighted so much!  This car gets a 4.5 star rating with a little room for improvement being lack of leg room on the back seat.  The house is gorgeous but lacks a level of curb appeal compared to the rest of the neighborhood.  The meal is one of the best you will ever have but the bread and butter was nothing special.  Being critical of Goodwin’s game doesn’t mean we wouldn’t take 4 more like him, it just means he has room to improve.

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2 minutes ago, Spoonball18 said:

I’m honestly not trying to be mean lol...I just don’t understand why people think that saying something critical is weighted so much!  This car gets a 4.5 star rating with a little room for improvement being lack of leg room on the back seat.  The house is gorgeous but lacks a level of curb appeal compared to the rest of the neighborhood.  The meal is one of the best you will ever have but the bread and butter was nothing special.  Being critical of Goodwin’s game doesn’t mean we wouldn’t take 4 more like him, it just means he has room to improve.

I ran out of reactions. But good post. 

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1 hour ago, slufanskip said:

There you go. Make it a personal attack.  That's usually a good choice when you're wrong. Heck, I should probably get used to it though. Something tells me I'll see a lot more posts where you are wrong. And doesn't it seem like you're the one offended by the disagreement? 

I just noticed you're the same guy in the Free Throw thread pushing to just bank it in. Now I get it. Sorry to have wasted your time. (and mine lol)

As far as French and my reason for advocating for a bank shot....I don’t care if they blindfold him on his attempts!  I just want to see something, anything other than a stiff armed push of the 🏀 that falls a foot short and a foot to the side.

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