Hughes getting more involved

[thetorch]

Interesting stuff torch, I don't know anything about Larry personally (beyond what I have heard from people who are at CBC when Larry was there which are some pretty good stories), so I will take your word for it. Knowing Justin Tatum a little bit from his final year at SLU and hearing about their time at CBC, that doesn't overly surprise me.

I am the same age as them and know them enough to say hi. I was never friends with them but played with and against them and know people who are friends with them.

I will hand it to Justin and Larry for their handling thus far of Jayson's career. It is almost as if they have a PR firm working for them. Jayson is always presented in the best light and it doesn't appear as if he has a huge group of handlers.

Once again young guys with money will do stupid things. It is really how you handle it that defines you to the public. Guys like Arenas and Shawn Kemp are jokes to the public. They let their personal lives interfere with their basketball careers, their lives tanked and they became laughingstocks. Kemp schlepps drinks in Seattle, Arenas is in and out of jail. Then you have a guy like Paul Pierce, almost percieved as a better player than he actually was, known as a team first guy, leader, etc. He's had numerous scrapes with the law, he's a drunk, drug user, and possibly the biggest POS in the league. All you hear is great things about him. He makes Kemp look like a saint but Pierce has always managed his professional and personal life so they don't interfere. Paul Pierce could go anywhere and get applauded even though he is a horrible human being. I hope Jayson doesn't take a simlar path like that but with the right handling he could and not be any worse for wear because of it.

[Pistol]

Your take on Miles and Hughes is really weird. You are basically saying the same thing, but making excuses for Miles being an idiot and thrashing Hughes for being an idiot. Both guys were about the same age when drafted. Both went to really unstable teams and continued throughout their career without much stability. What's the deal with that?

Was just about to type the same thing. Why the double standard with these two?

Hughes got to do whatever he wanted in HS, spent a year in college, and was drafted by a team led by Allen Iverson before bouncing all over the league's bottom-dwelling teams.

While Miles has retreated from the spotlight, Hughes appears to have leveled off and grown up. If you're going to trash one, then trash both; if you're going to excuse one, then the other deserves the same.

[thetorch]

Your take on Miles and Hughes is really weird. You are basically saying the same thing, but making excuses for Miles being an idiot and thrashing Hughes for being an idiot. Both guys were about the same age when drafted. Both went to really unstable teams and continued throughout their career without much stability. What's the deal with that?

Actually no. Hughes pro career was in a much better position than Miles ever was. Hughes had better teammates, better teams and was a better player. Miles had more potential.

They both are on similar levels. I think Miles could have figured it out, he had career ending injuries though. I believe Miles could have been a poor man's Z Bo. A headcase in his early career who realizes by 30 what a waste he is a cleans himself up. Hughes had some injuries but most of his career problems stemmed from poor life choices. His personal life wrecked his career.

Miles also stays in his house now. Hughes masqueardes as a mentor for SLU athletes and gets his name in the paper. I am not making a judgement on Larry. He can do whatever he wants. Just don't associate with SLU or use them to advance your brand when you don't share the same values.

[hsmith19]

Your take on Miles and Hughes is really weird. You are basically saying the same thing, but making excuses for Miles being an idiot and thrashing Hughes for being an idiot. Both guys were about the same age when drafted. Both went to really unstable teams and continued throughout their career without much stability. What's the deal with that?

Agreed. I know absolutely nothing about Hughes' personal life during his career except for what I read in the papers, but I have a couple friends whose kids have gone to Hughes' clinics in the last few years. They both loved it and rave about the experience. Is it just possible that he might have changed since he retired and came back home? Or do marital infidelities and bar fights from previous decades mean we should just totally ignore any positivity he might be bringing to the area currently?

[ACE]

Actually no. Hughes pro career was in a much better position than Miles ever was. Hughes had better teammates, better teams and was a better player. Miles had more potential.

They both are on similar levels. I think Miles could have figured it out, he had career ending injuries though. I believe Miles could have been a poor man's Z Bo. A headcase in his early career who realizes by 30 what a waste he is a cleans himself up. Hughes had some injuries but most of his career problems stemmed from poor life choices. His personal life wrecked his career.

Miles also stays in his house now. Hughes masqueardes as a mentor for SLU athletes and gets his name in the paper. I am not making a judgement on Larry. He can do whatever he wants. Just don't associate with SLU or use them to advance your brand when you don't share the same values.

Huh? Your first statement doesn't match up with the one that immediately follows.

[TheChosenOne]

While Miles has retreated from the spotlight, Hughes appears to have leveled off and grown up. If you're going to trash one, then trash both; if you're going to excuse one, then the other deserves the same.

Having more of a knowledge of Miles, I would find it pretty hard to defend him (unless like you said you are defending all young athletes from tough backgrounds who hit it big). Torch, do you agree with the characterization that "Hughes appears to have leveled off and grown up."

I do find the local basketball instructors to be quite amusing (beyond Drew Hanlen), certainly not guys I would want mentoring the next generation.

[Pistol]

Just because he was a good player and made a lot of money and reps his hometown doesn't make him somebody I'd want coaching or teaching my kid.

Hughes fell into the stereotypical NBA lifestyle. Multiple children with multiple women, cheating on his wife openly, cheating with teamates wives/girlfriends, his wife cheating with his teamates, rape charges, not paying child support. Despite our fondness for him he fell into the traps of fame and has made and continues to make poor life decisions. If he was a better player he'd be regarded as a Gilbert Arenas type guy. Many NBA guys wreck their personal lives but still manage to grow their basketball career. Hughes clowned around and wrecked both. The facade he presents is a sham and I believe he stays around St. Louis not because he loves his hometown but because we openly ignore his personal problems and still regard him as a star.

I'm not making a judgement on his life, give me 85 million and I probably do some terrible things, but that doesn't mean he gets to use the University's good name to advance his own either.

Also, careful about some of your accusations here, particularly "rape charges." Hughes was never charged once, let alone multiple times as "charges" suggests. He was cuffed, taken in, questioned, and released.

He's still together with his wife. They, like many other pro athlete couples, could very well have an "understanding." He has four children with her and one with another woman - that, yeah, he had while he was married. A lot of that other stuff, true or not, is pure gossip and impossible to prove. You make it sound like he has as many children and baby's mamas as Shawn Kemp, though, and that doesn't appear to be the case.

I guess my point is pump the brakes a little on the avalanche of accusations here. You're a bit extreme.

[TheChosenOne]

He's still together with his wife. They, like many other pro athlete couples, could very well have an "understanding." He has four children with her and one with another woman - that, yeah, he had while he was married.

I think he has a daughter at MICDS.

[Pistol]

People make mistakes. People also change and grow up and move on.

Hughes' quotes in the article were impressive to me. He seems like a guy with some perspective, and some desire to share it with a younger generation.

And honestly, the fact that he's made mistakes in his personal life probably makes him a better potential mentor for a lot of these guys. "Learn from my mistakes as well as my successes" instead of someone masquerading as example by perfection.

To say he doesn't deserve to represent SLU or associate with our program, players, and coaches is ridiculous. We have no other living player with his level of success after college basketball. Not even close.

[thetorch]

Was just about to type the same thing. Why the double standard with these two?

Hughes got to do whatever he wanted in HS, spent a year in college, and was drafted by a team led by Allen Iverson before bouncing all over the league's bottom-dwelling teams.

While Miles has retreated from the spotlight, Hughes appears to have leveled off and grown up. If you're going to trash one, then trash both; if you're going to excuse one, then the other deserves the same.

Eh I'll get off my high horse in a second.

Miles stays in his home. I can respect that. He's not doing anything good, but he's not doing anything bad. He isn't a hypocrite.

Hughes is a businessman now. He started a charitable fund early in his career, he's always owned nighclubs, bars, gyms, and has a basketball training program now. During that time he was a POS for the most part. Has he changed? No probably not. Now he's using his presence at SLU to advance his own brand. It would be one thing if SLU was a state school but we aren't. We are a Jesuit institution with Jesuit values. If Hughes has changed his ways then fine (he hasn't). He's just not someone who we should have mentoring our players in our program. Hughes can come to games, wave to the crowd, and that's it. Mentoring players, giving interviews advacing his brand and aligning it with SLU's should not be allowed. I wouldn't want Miles teaching guys how to sneak guns in airports just as I wouldn't want Hughes and McBroom showing the team the finer points of banging your teammates girlfriends.

[bonwich]

All this said, does Anthony Bonner come around at all any more?

[thetorch]

Huh? Your first statement doesn't match up with the one that immediately follows.

I've had you on ignore so long I forgot you posted here.

I don't care what Larry does. I care what he does in conjunction with SLU. When he partners with SLU, his brand becomes SLU's brand. I'm not comfortable with that. Not difficult to understand.

[TheChosenOne]

I will hand it to Justin and Larry for their handling thus far of Jayson's career. It is almost as if they have a PR firm working for them. Jayson is always presented in the best light and it doesn't appear as if he has a huge group of handlers.

I don't know Jayson's entire story, but I am surprised that so much credit is given to Justin and Larry over his mother, Drew Hanlen, and Bradley Beal.

[MB73]

I don't care what Larry does. I care what he does in conjunction with SLU. When he partners with SLU, his brand becomes SLU's brand. I'm not comfortable with that. Not difficult to understand.

I agree with your position in this matter.

[TheChosenOne]

And honestly, the fact that he's made mistakes in his personal life probably makes him a better potential mentor for a lot of these guys. "Learn from my mistakes as well as my successes" instead of someone masquerading as example by perfection.

When I hear the names of some of the guys that are training young players in the area I cringe. Sadly, most people don't change that significantly. I agree that those that do (Maurice Clarett apparently) are good mentors as they lived some of those cautionary tales.

[Pistol]

Actually no. Hughes pro career was in a much better position than Miles ever was. Hughes had better teammates, better teams and was a better player. Miles had more potential.

They both are on similar levels. I think Miles could have figured it out, he had career ending injuries though. I believe Miles could have been a poor man's Z Bo. A headcase in his early career who realizes by 30 what a waste he is a cleans himself up. Hughes had some injuries but most of his career problems stemmed from poor life choices. His personal life wrecked his career.

Miles also stays in his house now. Hughes masqueardes as a mentor for SLU athletes and gets his name in the paper. I am not making a judgement on Larry. He can do whatever he wants. Just don't associate with SLU or use them to advance your brand when you don't share the same values.

Hughes was drafted by a team led by Allen Iverson - whose personal problems are now a notorious tragic story - and Larry Brown - who admits to not having wanted him. Not exactly the most healthy, stable environment. Then he was shipped off to Golden State - a terrible team - before the Sixers got their act together and made a title run. Many players have managed successful basketball careers while navigating disastrous personal lives. Hughes' "career problems" were due to many factors, but primarily for on-court reasons.

Miles also went to a dysfunctional environment, albeit with a larger rookie contract from being drafted slightly higher and several years later. And with a much, much deeper roster - Brand, Maggette, Odom, Dooling, Richardson. And he was also traded quickly, like Hughes, to another terrible team, and traded again, and signed before blowing out his knee.

Point is, both were drafted into less-than-ideal situations that turned out to be poor fits. Both lacked maturity upon entering the draft. Both made some questionable off-court decisions. Both bounced around some of the poorest performing franchises in the league. Both made more money than their on-court performance was worth and signed contracts at exactly the best times for themselves and worst times for the signing teams (although Miles has reportedly blown most and Hughes appears to have held on to enough to live extremely comfortably).

Furthermore, how is Miles' reclusive lifestyle today somehow more appealing than Hughes' reaching out to his alma mater and the community? The latter appears to be showing that he's matured and moved on, while the former is wallowing in the fallout of his choices.

So the artificial rules you've made up for holding them to a double standard is quite baffling.

[ACE]

I've had you on ignore so long I forgot you posted here.

I don't care what Larry does. I care what he does in conjunction with SLU. When he partners with SLU, his brand becomes SLU's brand. I'm not comfortable with that. Not difficult to understand.

Good. I'll wear that like a badge of honor. Your "I am not making a judgment on Larry" line is typical of your nonsensical ramblings. Claim you are not making a judgment on a guy, yet proceed to judge him.

[brianstl]

I don't know Jayson's entire story, but I am surprised that so much credit is given to Justin and Larry over his mother, Drew Hanlen, and Bradley Beal.

I think when it comes to managing Jayson's image it is a team effort with his mom, Justin, and Larry at the front. Hanlen, Beal and others all play roles, too.

It really operates like a PR firm and every statement is calculated.

[thetorch]

People make mistakes. People also change and grow up and move on.

Hughes' quotes in the article were impressive to me. He seems like a guy with some perspective, and some desire to share it with a younger generation.

And honestly, the fact that he's made mistakes in his personal life probably makes him a better potential mentor for a lot of these guys. "Learn from my mistakes as well as my successes" instead of someone masquerading as example by perfection.

To say he doesn't deserve to represent SLU or associate with our program, players, and coaches is ridiculous. We have no other living player with his level of success after college basketball. Not even close.

All of this is true.

It was exactly my point though. Hughes' success on the court masks his problems in his personal life. The better he played in our eye the more he can get away with off the court without repurcussions. In a different market that doesn't work but in St. Louis it does.

This is similar to when we hired Coach Crews amid his allegations at Army. I was against the hire. Others were comfortable with it. There have been no allegations of anything untoward by Coach Crews here so it turned out OK.

Do we trust Hughes the same? Or are we affording his said treatment because he was a great player? I don't call the shots in the AD so I have no say.

[Pistol]

I don't know Jayson's entire story, but I am surprised that so much credit is given to Justin and Larry over his mother, Drew Hanlen, and Bradley Beal.

Yeah, that's probably from a combination of Beal and Hanlen being so young and not as locally-known as Hughes and Tatum, and typical sports guy misogyny. The hot takers probably think mom's just there for moral support and home-cooked meals, when anyone familiar with the situation knows who called the shots for her son.

When I hear the names of some of the guys that are training young players in the area I cringe. Sadly, most people don't change that significantly. I agree that those that do (Maurice Clarett apparently) are good mentors as they lived some of those cautionary tales.

I know what you mean, a person being who he or she is, but I'm willing to give people a chance. They'd probably be doing the same stupid stuff if given the opportunity, but they're now dealing with consequences, age, and a different set of priorities in life. That's enough to offer some perspective to guys who are young and feel invincible. Hell, on a much smaller scale, I think of the stupid I did when I was young, dumb, and fearless and shake my head sometimes.

[brianstl]

All of this is true.

It was exactly my point though. Hughes' success on the court masks his problems in his personal life. The better he played in our eye the more he can get away with off the court without repurcussions. In a different market that doesn't work but in St. Louis it does.

This is similar to when we hired Coach Crews amid his allegations at Army. I was against the hire. Others were comfortable with it. There have been no allegations of anything untoward by Coach Crews here so it turned out OK.

Do we trust Hughes the same? Or are we affording his said treatment because he was a great player? I don't call the shots in the AD so I have no say.

It works in every market as long as you play the media properly. I present as exhibit A Michael Jordan.

[thetorch]

Hughes was drafted by a team led by Allen Iverson - whose personal problems are now a notorious tragic story - and Larry Brown - who admits to not having wanted him. Not exactly the most healthy, stable environment. Then he was shipped off to Golden State - a terrible team - before the Sixers got their act together and made a title run. Many players have managed successful basketball careers while navigating disastrous personal lives. Hughes' "career problems" were due to many factors, but primarily for on-court reasons.

Miles also went to a dysfunctional environment, albeit with a larger rookie contract from being drafted slightly higher and several years later. And with a much, much deeper roster - Brand, Maggette, Odom, Dooling, Richardson. And he was also traded quickly, like Hughes, to another terrible team, and traded again, and signed before blowing out his knee.

Point is, both were drafted into less-than-ideal situations that turned out to be poor fits. Both lacked maturity upon entering the draft. Both made some questionable off-court decisions. Both bounced around some of the poorest performing franchises in the league. Both made more money than their on-court performance was worth and signed contracts at exactly the best times for themselves and worst times for the signing teams (although Miles has reportedly blown most and Hughes appears to have held on to enough to live extremely comfortably).

Furthermore, how is Miles' reclusive lifestyle today somehow more appealing than Hughes' reaching out to his alma mater and the community? The latter appears to be showing that he's matured and moved on, while the former is wallowing in the fallout of his choices.

So the artificial rules you've made up for holding them to a double standard is quite baffling.

You are assuming that Hughes has matured and moved on. What proof do you have of this?

I respect Miles for his actions. Miles is probably smoking weed and drving around in late model impalas. He's not doing that in conjunction with shaping young men's minds. He has no business doing that so he doesn't.

While Larry could be a responsible adult & businessman he probably isn't and is trying to shape young men's minds.

Where we disagree on this may be what we believe are Larry's motives. You believe Larry wants to help mentor kids. I believe Larry wants to make money and will use the the goodwill from his playing days at SLU to do so. Agree to disagree.

[thetorch]

I don't know Jayson's entire story, but I am surprised that so much credit is given to Justin and Larry over his mother, Drew Hanlen, and Bradley Beal.

True. I automatically jump to the conclusion that Larry and Justin play a bigger role than they do. The mother is most certainly in control. I will applaud Justin and Larry for not screwing anything up on their end.

[thetorch]

Good. I'll wear that like a badge of honor. Your "I am not making a judgment on Larry" line is typical of your nonsensical ramblings. Claim you are not making a judgment on a guy, yet proceed to judge him.

Presenting facts aren't judging. Larry has a messy personal life, many failed businesses, and some run ins with the law. Personally I don't care. If I was looking out for SLU's interest I would.

[thetorch]

It works in every market as long as you play the media properly. I present as exhibit A Michael Jordan.

His goes to the greater fame and ability=the more you can get away with. Companies have billions of dollars invested in him so they need to protect him. Anyone who pays any attention though knows he gambled on basketball, games which he competed in and was removed from the NBA because of it. I'm saying it out loud right now yet he was so good it doesn't make him seem like a worse person for it.